[nicholars]

I had the HD660s for 2 weeks and got my HD58X modded, bought a 2nd HD58X to compare modded vs stock and I can say for sure that with solderdudes mods you can minimize the grain and make the HD58x much flatter sounding, killing the peak and thus the grain.
HD660s still sounds flatter vs the modded HD58x but dayum it is a very close competition once your HD58x is modded. Some purists won't like the mod but if you listened to the HD660s.. you should definitely try modding a HD58x. It is so easy to do!

Very interesting thanks, what I wanted to know is not so much about the FR, but whether the 58x is technically as good as the HD660s, for example people hearing "more grain" and "transparency" might be a) the frequency response is different b) the driver in the 58x is worse. If it is "a" eg. just the FR causing any differences, then that is not a problem, because you can either keep the FR the same and have a 660s with more bass and a bit more treble, or you can mod them and have very close to a 660s. BUT if the answer is "b" and the differences are due to worse drivers, then the 660s would possibly still be the better option.

But from what you are saying there and what I have read in some other places, it looks like the 58x could be the same as the 660s but with different tuning, I actually think the 58x might be better, because it has more sub bass, which is my main problem with the HD6xx line and most open headphones. Very tempted to give the 58x a try because they are so ridiculously cheap if they are actually the same as the HD660s.

 

[Lay.]

Very interesting thanks, what I wanted to know is not so much about the FR, but whether the 58x is technically as good as the HD660s, for example people hearing "more grain" and "transparency" might be a) the frequency response is different b) the driver in the 58x is worse. If it is "a" eg. just the FR causing any differences, then that is not a problem, because you can either keep the FR the same and have a 660s with more bass and a bit more treble, or you can mod them and have very close to a 660s. BUT if the answer is "b" and the differences are due to worse drivers, then the 660s would possibly still be the better option.

But from what you are saying there and what I have read in some other places, it looks like the 58x could be the same as the 660s but with different tuning, I actually think the 58x might be better, because it has more sub bass, which is my main problem with the HD6xx line and most open headphones. Very tempted to give the 58x a try because they are so ridiculously cheap if they are actually the same as the HD660s.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...201998?utm_source=linkshare&referer=undefined

About the drivers...

 

[actorlife]

I had the HD660s for 2 weeks and got my HD58X modded, bought a 2nd HD58X to compare modded vs stock and I can say for sure that with solderdudes mods you can minimize the grain and make the HD58x much flatter sounding, killing the peak and thus the grain.
HD660s still sounds flatter vs the modded HD58x but dayum it is a very close competition once your HD58x is modded. Some purists won't like the mod but if you listened to the HD660s.. you should definitely try modding a HD58x. It is so easy to do!

Thank you. What mod did you do? Can you post pics? Did you remove the foams?

 

[s2g-unit]

Can anybody comment on this microphone?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M8Z5PVY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AJ2PJNO98VCDO&psc=1

Wanted to change the cable just to be able to voice chat with ok sound when gaming.

Thanks

 

[SolaVirtus]

Can anybody comment on this microphone?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M8Z5PVY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AJ2PJNO98VCDO&psc=1

Wanted to change the cable just to be able to voice chat with ok sound when gaming.

Thanks

I've got it, and have used it on my 58X for phone calls and when I want to take the cans portable around the house while listening. I haven't done an extensive sound quality comparison, but I haven't noticed a huge difference compared to the stock cable when using my phone with a Fiio A3 amp. I'm thinking the majority of difference would be due to the source and amp compared to better desk rig. The microphone quality seems pretty good. Again, I've used it for calls (some digital, higher quality VOIP, not just iffy cell calls), not gaming though. I haven't gotten any complaints about how I sound from people on the other end.

Build quality is so-so, maybe what you'd expect for the price. It's not a soft or very pliable weave wrap. It's probably a bit tougher and less prone to little nicks or gauges than stock. On mine, on the 3.5mm end, the wrap is just a little frayed where it's going into the metal termination. It's barely noticeable and hasn't really gotten worse in the limited use I've had. Length is a little bit of an issue, and it keeps it from being the cable I use at my desk. Another foot would be helpful, but oh well.

 

[s2g-unit]

I've got it, and have used it on my 58X for phone calls and when I want to take the cans portable around the house while listening. I haven't done an extensive sound quality comparison, but I haven't noticed a huge difference compared to the stock cable when using my phone with a Fiio A3 amp. I'm thinking the majority of difference would be due to the source and amp compared to better desk rig. The microphone quality seems pretty good. Again, I've used it for calls (some digital, higher quality VOIP, not just iffy cell calls), not gaming though. I haven't gotten any complaints about how I sound from people on the other end.

Build quality is so-so, maybe what you'd expect for the price. It's not a soft or very pliable weave wrap. It's probably a bit tougher and less prone to little nicks or gauges than stock. On mine, on the 3.5mm end, the wrap is just a little frayed where it's going into the metal termination. It's barely noticeable and hasn't really gotten worse in the limited use I've had. Length is a little bit of an issue, and it keeps it from being the cable I use at my desk. Another foot would be helpful, but oh well.

Thank You

 

[s2g-unit]

I'm currently my HD280 Pro's on my Denon 2112ci headphon out and the bass is much better, cleaner and more full coming out of the headphone jack of my 2112Ci compared my very basic Fiio K1. At the same time the high's of a female's vocals are much more clear and less sparkly or distorted I guess.

I'm planning on buying the HD58x's. Using the Hd58x, what would be the disadvantage of using the receiver (a few feet behind me in a closet) over the K1 with HD58x's?

What DAC/AMP would I need at a reasonable price of say 50-100$ to be better than my 2112ci?

 

[Magicman74]

Since it's been raining and I'm off work I've been giving these some good head time. I'll have to say these are really good cans. I still prefer my DT880 as talked about above, BUT these things really sound good with a good amp. I'm just using lower end portables but here is my take on what I have here. Hands down they need a Brighter/Neutral amp with a Wide/Deep sound stage.
Enter my Meier XXS. Yes a ten plus year old amp still out shines what is out there now. Got to give it to DR Meier, the man knows his amps.
The only thing about the match up with the XXS is I wish it had a tad more umph in the bass and the vocal was a little less forward. The Senns already are a little too shouty in the mids for my liking and the XXS just makes them borderline for me. But man the XXS is so clean and transparent. The most transparent portable I've ever used or heard.
A very good match with the XXS. Up next is the Topping NX3s, My favorite matching here, I did swap the op amp to LT1364. It has the bass I like, It's not bass head levels but the Sub bass the Senn already has with the added mid-bass of that LT1364 just blends the whole bass spectrum perfectly. The mids are dead neutral but so sweet sounding, The treble level is just a notch behind the XXS, stage as well. It"s just one step behind the XXS in total but my ears actually like it better. It's not as forward sounding but almost, almost as clean and transparent as the Meier.
I still say it sounds better to me even tho the XXS is a few levels above in amp quality.
I also tried the "Original" NX3 no S. it's very close to the S version, It's for sure a warmer amp, the bass is more Sub bass, The mids are not a sweet and the staging is not even close in size.
Still a decent match but for me the mids on the Senns are to forward and this amp does nothing to change them, Good or bad this is more of a taste issue.

Fiio A5, I talked about this one before. What a mess, I jumped on the hype of this and the A3. Man what a let down. As for the A5. It's a bloated mess. The low end just blends end with everything. Not a good match here. The mids are decent tho, just flat sounding. The treble on this thing is so metal sounding. I guess metallic? The staging is okay but to me it sounds like the detail while there its congested. I'm guess because of the low end bloat. The A3 is a little better, as the low end is done correctly but still it's lower Fi sounding.

So that's my take. Warmer amps a no-go. The Senns are warm enough. At least with the XXS and NX3S they become more open and clean sounding.
My opinion, stock, no amp the Senns remind me of a very good AM radio, it's warm and fuzzy with all the details, Kind of like a super MONO recording. A little amp and or Eq you can bring them to MCH stereo levels. I'm not into modding, if I want it to sound like something else, I'd buy that something else. SO!!!!! Brighter/Neutral amp with the most Transparent Sound you can get works well, Even the Grain issues are gone on the XXS and Topping. Almost

I"m not bothered by treble as most other are, I actually like it. So my Brighter/Neutral amp recommend is just what I prefer!!!

 

[Lurk650]

Yeah these I think do need a good amp. Straight out of my ZX300a balanced its ok, but not great. Plug into my Ifi & JDS Labs amp combo and they really shine. The other day I received my Little Bear B4-X, connected that to my ES100 and ran out of the B4-X balanced port and it was really good.

Has anybody compared these to the Fidelio X2?

 

[annasoh323]

Since it's been raining and I'm off work I've been giving these some good head time. I'll have to say these are really good cans. I still prefer my DT880 as talked about above, BUT these things really sound good with a good amp. I'm just using lower end portables but here is my take on what I have here. Hands down they need a Brighter/Neutral amp with a Wide/Deep sound stage.
Enter my Meier XXS. Yes a ten plus year old amp still out shines what is out there now. Got to give it to DR Meier, the man knows his amps.
The only thing about the match up with the XXS is I wish it had a tad more umph in the bass and the vocal was a little less forward. The Senns already are a little too shouty in the mids for my liking and the XXS just makes them borderline for me. But man the XXS is so clean and transparent. The most transparent portable I've ever used or heard.
A very good match with the XXS. Up next is the Topping NX3s, My favorite matching here, I did swap the op amp to LT1364. It has the bass I like, It's not bass head levels but the Sub bass the Senn already has with the added mid-bass of that LT1364 just blends the whole bass spectrum perfectly. The mids are dead neutral but so sweet sounding, The treble level is just a notch behind the XXS, stage as well. It"s just one step behind the XXS in total but my ears actually like it better. It's not as forward sounding but almost, almost as clean and transparent as the Meier.
I still say it sounds better to me even tho the XXS is a few levels above in amp quality.
I also tried the "Original" NX3 no S. it's very close to the S version, It's for sure a warmer amp, the bass is more Sub bass, The mids are not a sweet and the staging is not even close in size.
Still a decent match but for me the mids on the Senns are to forward and this amp does nothing to change them, Good or bad this is more of a taste issue.

Fiio A5, I talked about this one before. What a mess, I jumped on the hype of this and the A3. Man what a let down. As for the A5. It's a bloated mess. The low end just blends end with everything. Not a good match here. The mids are decent tho, just flat sounding. The treble on this thing is so metal sounding. I guess metallic? The staging is okay but to me it sounds like the detail while there its congested. I'm guess because of the low end bloat. The A3 is a little better, as the low end is done correctly but still it's lower Fi sounding.

So that's my take. Warmer amps a no-go. The Senns are warm enough. At least with the XXS and NX3S they become more open and clean sounding.
My opinion, stock, no amp the Senns remind me of a very good AM radio, it's warm and fuzzy with all the details, Kind of like a super MONO recording. A little amp and or Eq you can bring them to MCH stereo levels. I'm not into modding, if I want it to sound like something else, I'd buy that something else. SO!!!!! Brighter/Neutral amp with the most Transparent Sound you can get works well, Even the Grain issues are gone on the XXS and Topping. Almost

I"m not bothered by treble as most other are, I actually like it. So my Brighter/Neutral amp recommend is just what I prefer!!!

Really thorough and informative write-up. My 58X are back and forth between home and work. At work I use the DIY Class A pocket amp from @xrk971 which I probably get the most use out of for all of the various pieces of audio kit I have (those 9V rechargeables get a workout for sure). At home, I've got a Meier Corda Classic so your mention of your older Meier amp still alive and kicking ten years later is encouraging. I don't have a pair of the DT880s but do have a pair of DT990 Pro (250Ohm) which, I understand, are more V-shaped than the 880s. Not sure I have a preference one way or the other. I do get a bit of an interesting sensation switching from the 58X to the 990. I think the boosted bass and treble lend to a larger sense of impact and space which is nice for a little while at least. It may be that I just prefer wearing the 58X sometimes. Regardless, I don't get much back-and-forth time since I've lost the motivation for footing my headphones back and forth between work and home.

 

[nicholars]

Do these actually have more grain than the HD660S? Any more direct comparisons? Anyone who has tried both the 660S and the 58X?

Tyll said one of his main problems with the 660S was that they have more grain than the HD6XX/650/600. If the 58X has more grain again compared to the 660S, this might be getting into "too much grain"! But from my demo of the 660S in a shop, I thought the 660S sounded very good. The 660S was getting close to being a bit too sibilant around the 6Khz area, but not bad at all compared to most headphones. Overall from my limited demo I thought they were an improvement from the HD650, although they would be better with another 5db sub bass (like the FR for the 58x).

If the 58X really sounds 99% the same as the 660S in the mids and treble, but has more bass, that sounds almost too good to be true at $150! But I would not want any more grain than the 660S, so how much difference is there? According to DIYreviews he said the 58x sounds "pretty much the same in the upper mids and treble as the 660S", but then a lot of people saying the 58x has more grain, one person even saying the 58x has less grain!

 

[Tuneslover]

Do these actually have more grain than the HD660S? Any more direct comparisons? Anyone who has tried both the 660S and the 58X?

Tyll said one of his main problems with the 660S was that they have more grain than the HD6XX/650/600. If the 58X has more grain again compared to the 660S, this might be getting into "too much grain"! But from my demo of the 660S in a shop, I thought the 660S sounded very good. The 660S was getting close to being a bit too sibilant around the 6Khz area, but not bad at all compared to most headphones. Overall from my limited demo I thought they were an improvement from the HD650, although they would be better with another 5db sub bass (like the FR for the 58x).

If the 58X really sounds 99% the same as the 660S in the mids and treble, but has more bass, that sounds almost too good to be true at $150! But I would not want any more grain than the 660S, so how much difference is there? According to DIYreviews he said the 58x sounds "pretty much the same in the upper mids and treble as the 660S", but then a lot of people saying the 58x has more grain, one person even saying the 58x has less grain!

Do you perceive grain as the definitions state or others have tried to explain? If so, then maybe the HD58X might not be for you. If you're like me and don't really hear/understand grain then I think you would be fine with the HD58X. Personally I love the headphone, so much so that I bought a second pair (I have 3 DAC/Headphone Amp rigs).

 

[nicholars]

Do you perceive grain as the definitions state or others have tried to explain? If so, then maybe the HD58X might not be for you. If you're like me and don't really hear/understand grain then I think you would be fine with the HD58X. Personally I love the headphone, so much so that I bought a second pair (I have 3 DAC/Headphone Amp rigs).

Well these certainly look interesting, BUT at the same time I feel like $150 for headphones which literally sound the same as the 660S in the upper mids / treble, AND have 5DB more sub bass, for HALF the price, is either the bargain of the century, or the 58X have worse sound quality than the 660S.

From what I heard in the shop, the 660S did not have excessive grain, they were not as smooth as the HD6xx/650/600, but also the HD6xx can sound quite boring as it is too smooth for a lot of music. I thought the mids and treble on the 660S sounded very good, they could do with a bit more sub bass though. Is the 58x really a 660s with more sub bass for half the price?

It is hard to describe grain, but I definitely know what it sounds like, sort of like a rough texture in the upper mids / treble, where the low level detail is replaced with "grainyness". Overall what I want to know is, are the 58X a 660S with more sub bass, or do they sound worse than the 660s in the upper mid / treble area? eg. the drivers are not as good as the 660s. A lot of different opinions but I would like to hear from people who have directly compared them.

 

[Tuneslover]

Well these certainly look interesting, BUT at the same time I feel like $150 for headphones which literally sound the same as the 660S in the upper mids / treble, AND have 5DB more sub bass, for HALF the price, is either the bargain of the century, or the 58X have worse sound quality than the 660S.

From what I heard in the shop, the 660S did not have excessive grain, they were not as smooth as the HD6xx/650/600, but also the HD6xx can sound quite boring as it is too smooth for a lot of music. I thought the mids and treble on the 660S sounded very good, they could do with a bit more sub bass though. Is the 58x really a 660s with more sub bass for half the price?

It is hard to describe grain, but I definitely know what it sounds like, sort of like a rough texture in the upper mids / treble, where the low level detail is replaced with a "grainy" texture, basically that the drivers cannot resolve enough detail and it is replaced with grain.

I did compare the HD660 & HD650 very briefly about a year ago however I can’t recall too much difference except the 660 treble was a bit brighter and the bass was similar but a tad thinner than the HD650.

In other words, to me they sounded reasonably similar but please know that my comparative listening was very brief and quite a while ago. What I will say is that the HD58x is more lively sounding than the HD650 (I have the 650 & 6XX). Additionally the 58x has sub bass that the 650 & 6XX don’t have.

So I’m saying that the 58x is not a half the price 660. However I think the 58x is a “less clinical/serious” sounding headphone than the 650/6XX. The 58x is a more fun headphone and at a bargain price.

 

[nicholars]

I did compare the HD660 & HD650 very briefly about a year ago however I can’t recall too much difference except the 660 treble was a bit brighter and the bass was similar but a tad thinner than the HD650.

In other words, to me they sounded reasonably similar but please know that my comparative listening was very brief and quite a while ago. What I will say is that the HD58x is more lively sounding than the HD650 (I have the 650 & 6XX). Additionally the 58x has sub bass that the 650 & 6XX don’t have.

So I’m saying that the 58x is not a half the price 660. However I think the 58x is a “less clinical/serious” sounding headphone than the 650/6XX. The 58x is a more fun headphone and at a bargain price.

The frequency response of the 58X looks better to me compared to the 660s, almost the same but with + 5Db sub bass. Possibly that mid bass area around 200hz might be a bit "bloated", but does not look bad. But would I be losing sound quality going for the 58x instead of the 660s? If the 58x sound literally 99% the same as the 660s, but with more bass, then that is a massive bargain, if they are worse in areas such as grain, soundstage, imaging etc. Then maybe the 660s are a better option. Just hard to believe they sound as good as the 660s, with more bass, for $150!