[mikek200]

Are you talking about the MD's that came out last June?
 
According to Dan,who told me in a few emails,he will be making adjustment to the bass,with this new upgrade..it is not only a pad upgrade.
Also,he is sending a pair of the new MD's..& I should have them tomorrow.
 
I will do an A/B comparison over the next few days.
 
Personnally,I find nothing wrong with the MD' I already own,& use them 90% of the time
They are the my 2nd most used headphones,outside of the Lcd-2's.
 
You might wan to give them another try,in a few weeks,when they start shipping.
Dollars VS SQ,these are hard to beat...IMHO.

 

[LCfiner]

@electropop. I had said from the beginning that the MD bass was good but not the best thing about it, comparing it to a couple high end headphones that do it better (I still don't really know what you're looking for with bass if you don't think the LCD2 does it well). So, yeah, of course it's possible to improve on the MD.
 
I don't agree that the DT1350 is a headphone that does so, as I found it limp and dull when I used it - even when I found a good fit. But anyone looking for a portable headphone is probably better off with the much smaller, lighter and easier to drive DT1350 instead of the MD.
 
There are certainly headphones that perform better than the MD. I just haven't owned one that cost less than 500 bucks. But the MD is great in that it doesn't have the same, more obvious flaws as other headphones in this class and maybe a class above it. The bass may be a little one note, but it's not humped at 100 Hz and rolled off below it like an RS1. I think that counts for something. It's not bloated like the Denon D5000. 
 
On a side note, I think the term musicality gets thrown around a lot and it's very vague by itself. Some people use it to mean humped mid bass response. others might use it to describe the Grado midrange and all the peaks and valleys that are part of it. It always seems to be referring to some type of pleasing distortion. Myself, I'm looking for something that does a better job getting out of the way, which is why I like the Mad Dogs. 
 
Anyway, I think some criticism is good, like you said. this isn't an "appreciation" thread, but a regular discussion thread. I'm certainly hoping that these new "Dog Pads" can improve the bass as described by Dan at Mrspeakers.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

I'd take your word with a very fine grain of salt. What....

 
Maybe my view on sound staging is limited. Please explicit on yours. What I mean is that other elements of music reproduction, such as transient response, FR linearity within acceptable limits etc. have a bigger impact on the distinction of represented pitches of notes, rather than the "feeling" of a huge sound image. It might contribute however. 
 
Quote:

Are you talking about the MD's that came out last June?
 
According to Dan,who told me in a few emails,he will be making adjustment to the bass,with this new upgrade..it is not only a pad upgrade.
Also,he is sending a pair of the new MD's..& I should have them tomorrow.
 
I will do an A/B comparison over the next few days.
 
Personnally,I find nothing wrong with the MD' I already own,& use them 90% of the time
They are the my 2nd most used headphones,outside of the Lcd-2's.
 
You might wan to give them another try,in a few weeks,when they start shipping.
Dollars VS SQ,these are hard to beat...IMHO.

 
 
I have the version from JUST before the announcement of Dog Pads. 840-pads and whatever modification upgrades had been done.
 
Quote:

@electropop. I had said from the beginning that the MD bass was good but not the best thing about it, comparing it to a couple high end headphones that do it better (I still don't really know what you're looking for with bass if you don't think the LCD2 does it well). So, yeah, of course it's possible to improve on the MD.
 
I don't agree that the DT1350 is a headphone that does so, as I found it limp and dull when I used it - even when I found a good fit. But anyone looking for a portable headphone is probably better off with the much smaller, lighter and easier to drive DT1350 instead of the MD.
 
There are certainly headphones that perform better than the MD. I just haven't owned one that cost less than 500 bucks. But the MD is great in that it doesn't have the same, more obvious flaws as other headphones in this class and maybe a class above it. The bass may be a little one note, but it's not humped at 100 Hz and rolled off below it like an RS1. I think that counts for something. It's not bloated like the Denon D5000. 
 
On a side note, I think the term musicality gets thrown around a lot and it's very vague by itself. Some people use it to mean humped mid bass response. others might use it to describe the Grado midrange and all the peaks and valleys that are part of it. It always seems to be referring to some type of pleasing distortion. Myself, I'm looking for something that does a better job getting out of the way, which is why I like the Mad Dogs. 
 
Anyway, I think some criticism is good, like you said. this isn't an "appreciation" thread, but a regular discussion thread. I'm certainly hoping that these new "Dog Pads" can improve the bass as described by Dan at Mrspeakers.

 
Yes, I do not like humped bass. You're right that the term musicality has developed a curse around itself. For me personally it means just that: musical. Music in itself is a language and that language is constructed of notes, bluntly. I've used an analogy "being dyslexic", because that's just what it is when you're not hearing each note represent the correct pitch. You go back and read words again since you wasn't sure what you read. Same thing here: You're not sure whether the player meant to pull a long note or possibly slide to another with a fretless. This kind of information the MD, at least with my setup, did not always differentiate. Of course, "ignorance is bliss" applies here, as well as if you're listening to a good minimalistic recording, you won't notice this.
 
In no way is the bass-performance of the Mad Dog bad. Better to many other headphones way up and down from its price. It's just something which I found lacking. I could not enjoy the music without constantly monitoring on the recording.
I'm making this way too big of an issue than it is for most.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

What would you recommend for some1 looking for musicality in this price range then?

 
K701/702 is one of my favorites. K271 mkII, gotta say, if you're looking for a closed monitor. Again, the way I see the term, these are great contenders. I think the quality these possess, transcends many other factors. For instance, people hate the K701, but also do not praise it for what it is terrific. And I don't mean sound stage 

 

[electropop]

Quote:

 Myself, I'm looking for something that does a better job getting out of the way, which is why I like the Mad Dogs. 
 

 
Sorry, need to quote this one part. 
 
Excellent point! I think everyone basically is looking for a presentation that is the most "transparent" experience to the user. The MD's, however, were it the lack of distortion next to some harmonic distortion or by a combination of other elements, did not succeed in getting out of the way perfectly. Or at least in the areas I see as important. For others they can be really, really good and close at achieving this goal. 
 
I would also be interested in testing the new pads, but if it's true that the MD's are even going through some more modifications, I'll probably put them on hold

 

[tokendog]

Quote:

 
Sorry, need to quote this one part. 
 
Excellent point! I think everyone basically is looking for a presentation that is the most "transparent" experience to the user. The MD's, however, were it the lack of distortion next to some harmonic distortion or by a combination of other elements, did not succeed in getting out of the way perfectly. Or at least in the areas I see as important. For others they can be really, really good and close at achieving this goal. 
 
I would also be interested in testing the new pads, but if it's true that the MD's are even going through some more modifications, I'll probably put them on hold

 
From my understanding, the pad upgrade includes everything Dan has done to improve the bass.  That's the information I got from the e-mail conversation we had...also, realize, Dan is always tweaking these mods.  It has no predetermined point of completion.  When Dan has moved on from this mod to something else, then it will be done, I'm assuming.  Basically, if you are waiting for a final product that will not change, you may be waiting for a while.

 

[wje]

Quote:

Overhyped how? Would be interested in your impressions if or when you get them. I'd also be
interested in what headphones you've actually extensively heard or owned.

 
I'd think that when it comes to sound, the various opinions are quite subjective.  However, I think there is one thing we all can agree on.  The T50RPs are very comfortable headphones that one can wear for extended periods of time.  Dan, then took it a step further by offering the leather headband option, which makes them even more comfortable when on one's head.

 

[haquocdung]

Dan is great guy to deal with.
I ordered my MadDog w Dogpad last week with the hope that I can get it before mid September, before I am leaving for a long trip. 
I contact Dan and it was out of stock. He was kindly enough to send me the original MadDog with Shure 840 pad, and send me the Dog pad later. He wasn't hesitate to take the extra services that he has to do.
I haven't heard these cans in real life, but I assume it will be as fantastic as Dan's services.
Thump up for Dan and the MadDog.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

 
From my understanding, the pad upgrade includes everything Dan has done to improve the bass.  That's the information I got from the e-mail conversation we had...also, realize, Dan is always tweaking these mods.  It has no predetermined point of completion.  When Dan has moved on from this mod to something else, then it will be done, I'm assuming.  Basically, if you are waiting for a final product that will not change, you may be waiting for a while.

 
Yeah, I understand. And he should be tweaking them. There's usually and angry mob for everything. I remember the Audeze thread when the LCD-2 came. People were furious when they weren't getting a final product.. Personally I don't mind getting an unfinished product. If the upgrade is even as small as a set of pads, it's great. Still I think they require much improvement for me to consider another international order. 
 
I just wanted to give a balance here, since even before all of these upgrades they were considered another cure for cancer but even Dan himself, who´s pretty full on awesome to deal with, stated that he wasn't fully pleased with them.. I don't think what I've said is inflammatory. 

 

[mrspeakers]

In a sense, no product is ever finished, if they were we'd all drive totally reliable Model T's...  That said, it's my belief that if the product improves, I should give the installed base an option to upgrade when it's possible and makes sense. I hope I've done well in that department.  
 
As a new company with a new product, the rate of change is a bit high as I work through how to build higher volumes, improve quality, respond to customer feedback, etc.  Sometimes the changes are invisible, others not.  However, that rate of change slows as the product matures and the user base grows. 
 
It is interesting to me how people hear what they "care about" with headphones in a way that's a bit different than speakers.  I've never seen a study but in tuning with customers and a couple of production pros I've observed people really focus on what they care about, and other factors just don't matter as much.  For some it's balance/tone or dark space, others imaging or presence, others transparent mids or powerful bass, or fast bass. It's more intense a reaction than I see when people listen to speakers.  I wonder if in part this explains why headphones have such a huge diversity of sound compared to speakers, where the differences are IMHO less dramatic.

 

[BadFish81]

Just got back from a small trip with my Mad Dogs waiting for me at work yesterday.  I panicked at first to see the large 1/4" plug, I had to sneak out to a Radio Shack to get an adapter, so a heads up to new purchasers.  My early impressions on their sound...
 
First off I have to say this is the first time I've really noticed "burn-in" and I am now a believer that it exists and acknowledge that it can actually be pretty dramatic.  When I first anxiously hooked the MD's up to my amp for a listen, I was pretty disappointed, it felt very laid back, boring and lifeless.  I switched back and forth throughout the work day and there was some improvement after a few hours, then I left them playing overnight.  I came back to work this morning to completely different headphones.  There's far more impact and life to them.  So I heard other people mention this, but definitely give them some time before you jump on that 15-day trial period offer.
 
Comfort is certainly phenomenal.  I keep worrying that I don't have a full seal because there is very little clamping force, but there's full contact.  The weight is perfect and build quality is sturdy.  With the comfort strap add-on, there is 0 pressure anywhere, it's wonderful.  No problems wearing these all day. 
 
I'm still adjusting to the sound, prior to the Mad Dogs I had listened almost exclusively to Denon 2000's for over a year.  There is definitely a very different sound signature here.  Denon's have that pronounced U-curve, lots of sub-bass, sharp treble and recessed mids.  I like some fun to my headphones, I listen to a lot of electronic and funky Jazz fusion some Rock, but the D2000's would have me grinning ear to ear on some Electronic tracks with head-rumbling sub-bass, and then leave me very disappointed with songs that featured more pronounced Bass guitar or vocals.  With quite a few tracks I felt like the sub-bass was too bloated and bled into the mids too much.  The Mad Dogs certainly don't have that problem, but surprisingly for myself, I feel like I'm missing some "fullness".  Maybe I had just gotten used to that rumble that I used to criticize the Denons for.
 
The highs sound perfect to me, I never really cared much about this before but I found the treble ear-piercing and unenjoyable on the D2000's where I'm finding myself really enjoying the crispness of cymbal crashes on the Mad Dogs.  I'm very happy to find that Flea's bass isn't lost in Chili Peppers songs like they were on the Denons.  Still, there's something not quite hitting it for me overall on the Mad Dogs.  I haven't put my finger on it yet, I'm thinking that things feel a little more digital and less smooth, maybe this is the Planar Magnetic sound, maybe their just more revealing to poorly sampled tracks.  Drums don't really have the fullness that I want, the resonance from drums and bass guitar licks are missing.
 
I ordered an A/B audio switch, the Mad Dogs need a little more power than the Denons and I was finding it too hard to unplug/plug and adjust volumes to really compare them quickly.  I'll take that time to let the Mad Dogs burn in some more and I'll post back with some comparative impressions between the two.  I'll also bring in my Triple Fi 10's which will be a real test for me.  I've enjoyed the Triple Fi 10's more than anything else I've listened to so far, but I can't go more than an hour or two with ear plugs in my ears.  I've been looking for a comparative headphone for years.
 

 

[electropop]

Quote:

It is interesting to me how people hear what they "care about" with headphones in a way that's a bit different than speakers.  I've never seen a study but in tuning with customers and a couple of production pros I've observed people really focus on what they care about, and other factors just don't matter as much.  For some it's balance/tone or dark space, others imaging or presence, others transparent mids or powerful bass, or fast bass. It's more intense a reaction than I see when people listen to speakers.  I wonder if in part this explains why headphones have such a huge diversity of sound compared to speakers, where the differences are IMHO less dramatic.

 
What you first say is true. Must be really frustrating in a sense to try to develop a product that would please everyone. 
 
Speakers do have much differences, but maybe flaws are not as pronounced as in headphones. They might have less ringing or distortion by design, but damn room acoustics can be a bitch. Almost sold my Akurate 212's after I moved in a new apartment with stone walls. Was battling with standing waves until I got tipped by raising the speakers by 5cm or so. I now have a rock tiles under the speaker stands and that 95Hz humm decreased something like 80%. 
Anyway, different speakers suit well for different rooms. It's really difficult to fairly compare speakers. One thing I've noticed is that if it's a really horrible room and the speakers are fed by poor source/amplifier components, they all pretty much sound the same. 

 

[tokendog]

Quote:

Just got back from a small trip with my Mad Dogs waiting for me at work yesterday.  I panicked at first to see the large 1/4" plug, I had to sneak out to a Radio Shack to get an adapter, so a heads up to new purchasers.  My early impressions on their sound...
 
First off I have to say this is the first time I've really noticed "burn-in" and I am now a believer that it exists and acknowledge that it can actually be pretty dramatic.  When I first anxiously hooked the MD's up to my amp for a listen, I was pretty disappointed, it felt very laid back, boring and lifeless.  I switched back and forth throughout the work day and there was some improvement after a few hours, then I left them playing overnight.  I came back to work this morning to completely different headphones.  There's far more impact and life to them.  So I heard other people mention this, but definitely give them some time before you jump on that 15-day trial period offer.
 
Comfort is certainly phenomenal.  I keep worrying that I don't have a full seal because there is very little clamping force, but there's full contact.  The weight is perfect and build quality is sturdy.  With the comfort strap add-on, there is 0 pressure anywhere, it's wonderful.  No problems wearing these all day. 
 
I'm still adjusting to the sound, prior to the Mad Dogs I had listened almost exclusively to Denon 2000's for over a year.  There is definitely a very different sound signature here.  Denon's have that pronounced U-curve, lots of sub-bass, sharp treble and recessed mids.  I like some fun to my headphones, I listen to a lot of electronic and funky Jazz fusion some Rock, but the D2000's would have me grinning ear to ear on some Electronic tracks with head-rumbling sub-bass, and then leave me very disappointed with songs that featured more pronounced Bass guitar or vocals.  With quite a few tracks I felt like the sub-bass was too bloated and bled into the mids too much.  The Mad Dogs certainly don't have that problem, but surprisingly for myself, I feel like I'm missing some "fullness".  Maybe I had just gotten used to that rumble that I used to criticize the Denons for.
 
The highs sound perfect to me, I never really cared much about this before but I found the treble ear-piercing and unenjoyable on the D2000's where I'm finding myself really enjoying the crispness of cymbal crashes on the Mad Dogs.  I'm very happy to find that Flea's bass isn't lost in Chili Peppers songs like they were on the Denons.  Still, there's something not quite hitting it for me overall on the Mad Dogs.  I haven't put my finger on it yet, I'm thinking that things feel a little more digital and less smooth, maybe this is the Planar Magnetic sound, maybe their just more revealing to poorly sampled tracks.  Drums don't really have the fullness that I want, the resonance from drums and bass guitar licks are missing.
 
I ordered an A/B audio switch, the Mad Dogs need a little more power than the Denons and I was finding it too hard to unplug/plug and adjust volumes to really compare them quickly.  I'll take that time to let the Mad Dogs burn in some more and I'll post back with some comparative impressions between the two.  I'll also bring in my Triple Fi 10's which will be a real test for me.  I've enjoyed the Triple Fi 10's more than anything else I've listened to so far, but I can't go more than an hour or two with ear plugs in my ears.  I've been looking for a comparative headphone for years.
 

 
I had the exact same experience with the MDs...I decided to keep them as headphones I would use when I needed a break from the clamping force of the LCD-2s, however, during those breaks, I would forget I had them on and just keep on jamming.  I would notice I was tapping my toes, rockin my head, drumming my fingers, etc.  and then I noticed I started picking them up more - especially after a long day of work because I just wanted to relax.  The MDs definitely have a place in my collection and aren't going any where.  I'm VERY excited to try out the new Dog Pads and just hope they come sooner than later.

 

[juantendo8]

I finally shelled out for these new pads. I am hoping they breathe better, as my ears can sometimes get a little hot with the pleather.

 

[MattTCG]

I will not be buying the dog pads, as I shelled out big money for the stax o2 pads. I can not imagine anything else being as lush, comfortable and working so well for the bass. And at the sticker price, they should be the best!!