[crinacle]

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Originally Posted by horseypie /img/forum/go_quote.gif

i just got the alessandro ms1i's after owning the m50's for about 4/5 months and im enjoying them...i was looking to spend the same roughly as i did on the m50's but i wanted to see about open headphones. i read on here for a while about open phones and prices and stuff and it came down to me choosing between the ms1i's and the audio technica ad-7000's, and the shop i ordered online with didnt have any of the ad-7000's in stock, so thats why i went for the alessandro's. i think theyre pretty nice, not sure whether i'll mod them or not down the track, but for the moment theyre a good, home use headphone i think. theyre a big darker than the m50, if anything, but to me their sound is fairly comparable. The soundstage is similar (the ms1i's have a much more closed soundstage compared to other open headphones from what i've read, but i haven't been able to test it myself), but the bass is less impactful in the ms1i, which is a little different i guess.  The only thing i've found is the open headphones need to have the volume up heaps higher to have the same impact and feel of the closed phones, which is kinda what i expected after reading reviews. im looking at getting a fiio e7 or maybe an iBasso as a portable amp, since i use the ms1i at home and the m50's at work and i'd want to amp both (at the moment i just run them out of my computers), and i think a little more juice may make them heaps nicer.
 

Well I read the 668Bs are better than the MS1is... well they're coming in the mail anyway so I'll borrow my friend's MS1 and see whether the Superlux hype is really true.
 

 

[tyoung8]

 
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As for recommending cans without actual experience, I'd suggest better don't do so as credibility of the forum may get ruined, but oh well nowadays many new threads blind-asking for recommendations even if there is already one there saying 'don't create new thread'..

I totally disagree.  I rather have some info than no info and the onus is up to the reader to dissect the info that given.  I hope nobody takes anybody's word on an internet forum as indisputabe facts but always just opinions.  I am going to ask again, would it be wrong for me to recommending people not to get beats for $300 odd dollars even though I have no actual experience of them?
 
 
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First hand experience is overrated. 

 
That is a bit disingenuous.  Nobody is overrating first hand experience.  The issue is when someone completely write off second info as if it were completely useless. 
 
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So, are there any open headphones I can upgrade from the M50s at their price point? I'm trying to be more diversified in my headphones collection. I already got the HD-681F, the RE0s, the Shures SRH440s as well as the Klipsch Image S4s. My 668Bs are coming in the mail anytime, but before I go choosing my next upgrade (I'm thinking of the Ultrasones 580) I would like to ask you guys. 

Yeah go for Ultrasone 580 if you listen to any electronic music at all.

 

[Deep Funk]

What counts is what is to your liking. 'Better than this/that' only adds to the confusion.
 
The M50 is okay but I would buy something else, especially after having given it a good listen.  

 

[Digital-Pride]

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Whatever you like I guess. As long as I like the frequency balance and detail, I don't care whether it's open or closed... But the "open headphones are better than closed headphones" mantra is getting a bit annoying. Open headphones tend to be more spacious but they also usually have less low range volume, extension, and/or impact. The Stax Omega 2s were the only open headphone I've heard that had a mid range representation that was good without some crazy spike or roll off in the frequency response.

I'm in agreement with you there.  There are some great sounding closed headphones that rival the sound quality available from their open-air counterparts.  In fact, I've yet to find an open-air headphone that matches the clarity and trasparency of even my Shure SRH440, the ones that I've tried include the Sennheiser HD515, HD595, and the AKG K240 studio.  I'm hoping either the AD900 or the HD600 will fit the bill.

 

[Borgbox]

I enjoy my m50s and if the buyer criteria match up with their strengths, I'm going to (and do) recommend them. I don't own, nor have I listened to, "better" (i.e. more expensive) headphones but that doesn't matter when they're asking "What headphone is good at ____, ____, and ___?" instead of "are X headphones better than Y headphones?" If the m50s are good at their criteria I will absolutely recommend them for the price at which I got them. That's not hype, that's how recommendations work. 
 
 

 

[eriktheg]

Yep yep. If the SRH 840's were $110 brand new, I would have got them over M50's at a 98% rate. But I needed to put price in hand so i took the M50's.

 

[Armaegis]

Quote:

I totally disagree.  I rather have some info than no info and the onus is up to the reader to dissect the info that given.  I hope nobody takes anybody's word on an internet forum as indisputabe facts but always just opinions.  I am going to ask again, would it be wrong for me to recommending people not to get beats for $300 odd dollars even though I have no actual experience of them?
 

I usually try to stick to recommending headphones that I have owned/heard myself, or at the very least have heard enough headphones within the brand to have a good general idea of the sound in combination to reviews that I've read.
 
In any event, on occasion I do make recommendations for products that I have not heard, but do mention that it is strictly an opinion generated from reading and not first hand experience.
 
I happen to spend a lot of time in the giant "DON'T START A NEW THREAD" thread, but I've also gone through a lot of budget/mid range headphones which is what the majority of people are looking for in there.

 

[tyoung8]

Quote:

I usually try to stick to recommending headphones that I have owned/heard myself, or at the very least have heard enough headphones within the brand to have a good general idea of the sound in combination to reviews that I've read.
 
In any event, on occasion I do make recommendations for products that I have not heard, but do mention that it is strictly an opinion generated from reading and not first hand experience.
 
I happen to spend a lot of time in the giant "DON'T START A NEW THREAD" thread, but I've also gone through a lot of budget/mid range headphones which is what the majority of people are looking for in there.

Sorry I think if people stick to only recommending the headphones they have owned/heard themselves than they would be giving out bad recommendations.  Their advice would be biased towards the headphones they have heard/owned. 
 
Say someone need a recommendation for a good quality bassy headphone.  There is pretty much a dozen or so bassy headphones that gets recommended all the time that are solid safe choices.  But if you never heard a popular quality bassy headphone that lots of people recommend but you haven't heard yourself than would you leave it out?
 
I think the whole idea that only you can only trust your own experience is a total antithesis to the idea of a forum which is all about sharing opinions so that you don't have to test out every single headphone/amp/dac yourself.
 

 

[Armaegis]

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Sorry I think if people stick to only recommending the headphones they have owned/heard themselves than they would be giving out bad recommendations.  Their advice would be biased towards the headphones they have heard/owned. 

And you could just as easily give out bad recommendations for a headphone that you've only heard about, because you don't actually know how it sounds and how it relates to the person's request.
 
A person recommending only the stuff they know is fine, assuming they at least they understand the gear and how it meshes with other equipment and music genres, etc. Where things get fuzzy is when people recommend their favourites because they don't know better (or just like the sound of their own voice), or the people who parrot recommendations for gear they haven't heard based on the opinion of other people who also probably never heard it.
 
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Say someone need a recommendation for a good quality bassy headphone.  There is pretty much a dozen or so bassy headphones that gets recommended all the time that are solid safe choices.  But if you never heard a popular quality bassy headphone that lots of people recommend but you haven't heard yourself than would you leave it out?

 
That's precisely right. I am fortunate enough (though my wallet disagrees) to have heard a lot of gear, so I am fairly confident in my recommendations within the set of gear that I have experience with. If a request comes along that's outside my scope, I can offer thoughts (labelled as such), but if I really don't know, then I keep my yap shut and let someone who *does* have the right experience and knowledge set to come along and answer.
 
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I think the whole idea that only you can only trust your own experience is a total antithesis to the idea of a forum which is all about sharing opinions so that you don't have to test out every single headphone/amp/dac yourself.
 

 
Sharing ideas and opinions is one thing. Repeating others' opinions as my own is another.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

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Personally compared to the k240, grado sr60i in a lower or same price point, they fall short in both mids and highs. I think they have great bass, but there is no resolution and the mids and highs are quiet grainy (just listen to female vocals to hear it)
 
 

That's a joke.  Every Grado below the 225 is grainier than hell by comparison to the M50.  When people say the M50 lacks clarity or detail I have to question their source or something else.  They schooled the 840 I had let alone the sr60 and k240.  There is an upper mid recession in the FR that throws off female vocals just a bit but nothing objectionable unless you AB.  Grain?  Never heard it.  I'm extremely intolerant of grain.
 
And I guess the M50 have been FOTM for the past 13 months I've been around.  
 

 

[Brooko]

I'm totally with Armaegis on this - unless you qualify comments with "I haven't actually heard/experienced this can (I'm just repeating what I've read)" then how are people to know?
 
Classic example - if I'd just gone with the majority of comments on entry point closed cans, I'd have bought the M50.  Why - because everyone seems to recommend it (even if they haven't heard it - and a lot of the time it is the only one recommended with no alternates).  I spent the time sifting the forum looking for alternates in my price range.  Then - because I was lucky enough to be in NY, so I could demo some cans before making a decision - I got a chance to listen to the cans I'd narrowed it down to (M50, A700, SRH840, D1100).  A lot of different signatures  - but fun to try them all.  In the end I found the SRH840 were a perfect match for me - but there is no substitute for actually trying the cans.  The point is - how can you recommend - without doing the same thing (trying first, so that you actually know the difference)?
 
Would I have still enjoyed the M50 - undoubtedly - it is a very good all rounder.  Do I like the Shures better - definitely.
 
tyoung8 - you made the comment:
Quote:

I am going to ask again, would it be wrong for me to recommending people not to get beats for $300 odd dollars even though I have no actual experience of them?

With most Apple stores stocking the Beats in various flavours - why don't you actually go and try them?  Then at least you do know.  I tried them on my way through Singapore (had a few hours spare in Changi).  I was actually surprised - the mids and highs weren't as bad as I'd read about.  The main issue was the bass - it was overpowering (for me) - and not as tight and clear as alternatives in lower price brackets.  Yes a lot of people diss them for their price point - now I know why.  There is no substitute for personal experience IMHO.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'm in agreement with you there.  There are some great sounding closed headphones that rival the sound quality available from their open-air counterparts.  In fact, I've yet to find an open-air headphone that matches the clarity and trasparency of even my Shure SRH440, the ones that I've tried include the Sennheiser HD515, HD595, and the AKG K240 studio.  I'm hoping either the AD900 or the HD600 will fit the bill.

In other words, you really haven't tried any open headphones yet.

Try the good ones and you'll get an entirely new understanding of transparency.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Sorry I think if people stick to only recommending the headphones they have owned/heard themselves than they would be giving out bad recommendations.  Their advice would be biased towards the headphones they have heard/owned. 
 
Say someone need a recommendation for a good quality bassy headphone.  There is pretty much a dozen or so bassy headphones that gets recommended all the time that are solid safe choices.  But if you never heard a popular quality bassy headphone that lots of people recommend but you haven't heard yourself than would you leave it out?
 
I think the whole idea that only you can only trust your own experience is a total antithesis to the idea of a forum which is all about sharing opinions so that you don't have to test out every single headphone/amp/dac yourself.
 

So I just managed to peel both palms off my face. I considered asking a few other people to put palms on my face, too.

And I've spent a minute composing myself. I am also wondering if this is a deliberate troll.

You never, ever should recommend gear you haven't heard. It makes you look like an idiot. It also destroys the credibility of the forum. The entire point of having discussions is not so you can parrot what you read and/or make stuff up. People come here looking for direct knowledge.

As for not having to buy every headphone, this is why we have meets. Show up and listen to everything. The point is to expose members to as many headphones as possible.

Further, it's totally normal to be biased towards what you own.

It's not like you're assigned a pair of headphones at birth and have to stick by them, right or wrong.

When you shop for headphones, you actively discriminate. You can buy as many pairs as you want. You can sell them, too.

So the headphones I own are the best of what I've heard. My bias is that I bought the ones that sounded good and did not buy the ones that didn't.

I will recommend what I own because I've heard the rest (everything on the market, save a couple of new ones) and deliberately chose what to buy.

People recommending gear they haven't heard has been a plague around here. It has been discussed many times and is one reason why some of the senior members don't come around that often - it drives them crazy to have their opinions drowned out by know-nothings.

 

[rhythmdevils]

you can put my hands on your face if you want Erik.  Or you can put your hands on my face or we can take turns.  In a manly way of course. 

 
I wonder how many people on this forum recommend cans they've never heard.  That might explain a few things I've been noticing about the forums lately...

 

[Anaxilus]

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you can put my hands on your face if you want Erik.  Or you can put your hands on my face or we can take turns.  In a manly way of course. 

 
I wonder how many people on this forum recommend cans they've never heard.  That might explain a few things I've been noticing about the forums lately...

 
Personally I feel the AKG K1340 is the best headphone to date.  Everyone should buy a set.