Loxjie P20 Discussion- Starved for information on this thing!

[Shane D]

Price wise, it is definitely worth trying at this price. I bought it and was unimpressed. I then ordered some Russian tubes from the Ukraine. It did get more open, but still didn't do it for me. I wondered what the problem was. Was it too tubey? Was it not tubey enough? Was it the output impedance? Was it just me? I had no idea.

I then picked up the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X during Prime Days for $199.00 in US funds. This cost me double what I paid for the P20 and tubes.
It sounds Amazing and is my balanced amp of choice now. It even redeemed the HE4XX's, which I didn't think was possible.
The chain is ZX300 to SMSL SU-8 via XLR to LCX via XLR to all of my headphones with the exception of the Grado's.

My P20 will be going up for sale.

Shane D

 

[PaganDL]

@forestitalia, @Shane D,

Just my humble two cents, subjectively & personally, I find with the P 20, source is important, as well as source recording quality so it all depends, especially the synergy between source & P 20.

Anyway, as everyone has different tastes, it is tricky for things to please everybody, which is neither good nor bad, it just is.

Hope you find something which better suits your requirements, @forestitalia.

@Shane D, good to hear you're enjoying the CLCX, it is among my favourite amps, anyway, hope your experience with the P 20 doesn't discourage you from trying other tube amps.

Hope you both have a great day !

 

[Shane D]

@forestitalia, @Shane D,

Just my humble two cents, subjectively & personally, I find with the P 20, source is important, as well as source recording quality so it all depends, especially the synergy between source & P 20.

Anyway, as everyone has different tastes, it is tricky for things to please everybody, which is neither good nor bad, it just is.

Hope you find something which better suits your requirements, @forestitalia.

@Shane D, good to hear you're enjoying the CLCX, it is among my favourite amps, anyway, hope your experience with the P 20 doesn't discourage you from trying other tube amps.

Hope you both have a great day !

I would love to try a real tube amp, but all of my headphones are really efficient and apparently that won't work.

Shane D

 

[PaganDL]

I would love to try a real tube amp, but all of my headphones are really efficient and apparently that won't work.

Shane D

@Shane D,

Real tube amp is relative as everyone will have their one or several which they would say is the one for them...
Also, I have heard some hybird tube amps which sound just as good, if not better than pure tube amps.
I'm sure there will certainly be some who will argue this point but that's just my humble, subjective opinion.
There are also many, many tube amps which don't sound all that great for various reasons so it is all highly personal as well.
It doesn't help where I am, I don't have access to a lot of the more boutique tube amps out there, especially from Europe or the USA so I can't comment how those sound in the grand scheme but those I have managed to hear all sound good to me to some degree.
The question is whether they are worth owning but no one can answer that but yourself.

Headphone efficiency doesn't have all that much to do with how a tube amp sounds in the grand scheme though that is largely subjective & I'm sure there will be someone who will disagree as they would be considering the measurements more than sound, etc...
Specs only go so far where tube amps are concerned.
As stated before, regardless of headphone, like with all audio gear in the chain, tube amps in particular, more than solid state, need a certain synergy to SOUND GOOD to YOU.
The question which needs to be asked is whether you find something which works for you.
Ironically, nearly all my headphones, the most inefficient headphone I have is 150 Ohms, work well with the tube amps I have though some do work better than others but that is expected so it all depends.

As a side note, this doesn't include highly subjective tube upgradeitis against stock tubes either as most people's instinctive reactive urge is to upgrade said tubes without understanding stock tube's said characteristics, type & usage.
After all, every tube sounds different, even the same series, which doesn't necessarily include matched or at least you hope it's matched, etc.
More often than not, there are some pricey tubes which are potentially not worth it as much as they could be or vice versa, not to mention there are some highly affordable tubes which sound utterly terrible so once again, it all depends.
Like anything, there are tubes which sound better than others.

How much gain & microphonics also plays a significant part in how a tube sounds & nearly all tubes can be adjusted in some way, depending on preference, of course.
Some even like higher gain tubes which can be adjusted accordingly.
Though the universal choice above most options when picking alternative &/or upgrade tubes is to have as low microphonics as possible, eg, less ringing &/or noise in the audio signal.

All you can do in trying a tube amp, be it real or hybird, which possibly suits you, is using the headphones you're most familiar &/or like, try to demo at the very least as many tube amps as you can, especially with those using different tubes, not just the same type &/or series.

Apologies for my potentially extended reply but hope this all makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[forestitalia]

@forestitalia, @Shane D,

Just my humble two cents, subjectively & personally, I find with the P 20, source is important, as well as source recording quality so it all depends, especially the synergy between source & P 20.

Anyway, as everyone has different tastes, it is tricky for things to please everybody, which is neither good nor bad, it just is.

Hope you find something which better suits your requirements, @forestitalia.

@Shane D, good to hear you're enjoying the CLCX, it is among my favourite amps, anyway, hope your experience with the P 20 doesn't discourage you from trying other tube amps.

Hope you both have a great day !

it's ok, I've been too rude with my first post. It is an amp that work ok with some headphones and kind of music, not too much with other cans, but is taste wise.
I prefer neutral amplifier such as the Cayin iHA6 I'm listenig now with Sony Z1R, it is more than enough bass for me: album Duke Wellington & John Coltrane.. ...source Auralic Vega

 

[Shane D]

@Shane D,

Real tube amp is relative...

Apologies for my potentially extended reply but hope this all makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !

Thank you for the VERY detailed reply. All the talk about and the look of tube amps piqued my interest. When I say "real tube amp", I am referring to OTL amps. I have still never heard one and there is nowhere in my part of the world to hear one. The hardest to drive headphones that I have are the HE4XX's and the HD58X's. The other four pairs are 32 Ohm.

I bought the P20 because it was cheap and I had hoped it would give a sense of "tubeyness". Either it doesn't have any or if it does, I am unimpressed. The amp and the tubes cost me about $165.00, plus tax (in Canada). To get a DarkVoice or similar, I would be looking at a minimum double that amount. And then if it didn't move me, yet another piece of headgear sold at a significant loss. Too much for me without testing first.

I think I will just live with my Burson Fun/LCX combo for now and keep an eye out in the used market for something interesting.

Shane D

 

[CADCAM]

I have the Little Dot MKIII which is an OTL tube amp, I usually run my DT880 600 ohm hp's from this unit and with a little tweaking from my AudioControl EQ the sound is superb. Very bloomy, smooth classic tube sound IMHO. Not too much mind you, I had a Sansui 1000A (23 tubes!) back in the day and I'll tell you that thing was tubby sounding! Contrasting that sound the P20 sounds almost SS"ish" to me but with just enough deviation to make you ask is there a tube in there somewhere contributing something to the sound?
I use a SMSL DAC to feed the P20 which has a vast array of sound options that are so infinitesimally small it's tough to distinguish between. I seemed to have settled on Apodizing and Standard but sometimes I spend too much time experimenting with them and to tell the truth I really like most of them. Even though the P20 has much more of what I would say is a SS type sound sig it is nowhere near as analytical and neutral as my Keces amp which is like a correctional officer when it comes to reproducing the sound of a recording.
I really enjoy the P20...listening to it right now with some Willie & Lobo ~ Rockin Gypsies and man everything sounds right. Maybe I'm getting good synergy with the Oppo, maybe it likes the SMSL DAC and the fact I'm running balanced but I'm searching for something to complain about.
That's why this hobby is so cool, you can have several different setups that wouldn't be practical in full size 2 channel stereo systems. And the best thing is you don't necessarily have to have a silent empty house to listen!

 

[Shane D]

I have the Little Dot MKIII which is an OTL tube amp, I usually run my DT880 600 ohm hp's from this unit and with a little tweaking from my AudioControl EQ the sound is superb. Very bloomy, smooth classic tube sound IMHO. Not too much mind you, I had a Sansui 1000A (23 tubes!) back in the day and I'll tell you that thing was tubby sounding! Contrasting that sound the P20 sounds almost SS"ish" to me but with just enough deviation to make you ask is there a tube in there somewhere contributing something to the sound?
I use a SMSL DAC to feed the P20 which has a vast array of sound options that are so infinitesimally small it's tough to distinguish between. I seemed to have settled on Apodizing and Standard but sometimes I spend too much time experimenting with them and to tell the truth I really like most of them. Even though the P20 has much more of what I would say is a SS type sound sig it is nowhere near as analytical and neutral as my Keces amp which is like a correctional officer when it comes to reproducing the sound of a recording.
I really enjoy the P20...listening to it right now with some Willie & Lobo ~ Rockin Gypsies and man everything sounds right. Maybe I'm getting good synergy with the Oppo, maybe it likes the SMSL DAC and the fact I'm running balanced but I'm searching for something to complain about.
That's why this hobby is so cool, you can have several different setups that wouldn't be practical in full size 2 channel stereo systems. And the best thing is you don't necessarily have to have a silent empty house to listen!

Do you have any easy to drive 'phones that you run through the Little Dot? I would like to know what happens you run an OTL into 32 Ohm headphones.

Shane D

 

[DBaldock9]

Installed a matched pair of 6N3P-E tubes, from Riverstone Audio - but then discovered that one of the OPA1622 op-amps I had plugged in to the DIP-8 sockets, was flaking out and making noise. So I have to deal with that, before I can check out the new tubes.

 

[CADCAM]

Shane D ~ I have the Superlux EVO that I power from the LD sometimes and they are 32 ohms, no problems with them. No hiss or sound problems. You don't get too much volume adjustment with them though. It can get loud quick! I do have a collection of IEM but rarely listen to them anymore. Also the LD has four gain settings and I'm on 5 I believe and the setting are 3-4-5-10 with 10 obviously being high gain.

DBaldock9 ~ That stinks my friend, I saw the Riverstone tubes also and was thinking of trying them. Wonder if there would be an improvement over the matched Russians I got when I first purchased the amp...

 

[DBaldock9]

I do have a set of 4x LME49720HA (TO-9 metal case) op-amps, that I could plug into the P20, but I think I prefer the sound of the OPA1622.
I really like the sound of the OPA627AU, but they're Mono, so I'd have to buy 8 of them, at $23.80 each.

 

[Shane D]

Shane D ~ I have the Superlux EVO that I power from the LD sometimes and they are 32 ohms, no problems with them. No hiss or sound problems. You don't get too much volume adjustment with them though. It can get loud quick! I do have a collection of IEM but rarely listen to them anymore. Also the LD has four gain settings and I'm on 5 I believe and the setting are 3-4-5-10 with 10 obviously being high gain.

DBaldock9 ~ That stinks my friend, I saw the Riverstone tubes also and was thinking of trying them. Wonder if there would be an improvement over the matched Russians I got when I first purchased the amp...

Thanks for the reply. I never heard of Superlux and had to Google them.

I wonder why people say that OTL amps won't be impressive with efficient headphones?

Shane D

 

[DBaldock9]

My project for today, was to cut my P20 "in half".
.
First, I went to the Hardware Store and bought a set of 8x M3.5 x 10mm Phillips screws, to replace the stock Torx & Allen head screws.
I also bought some new hacksaw blades.
After cutting the case, I went over the exposed edges with a Red Sharpie Permanent Marker.
.
This is the result -
(NOTE: There are 4x LME49720HA (TO-99 round metal case) op-amps in the sockets that I installed.)
.

.

 

[CADCAM]

Shane Superlux are great for the small price of admission, the hd668b sound balanced and neutral while the HD681 EVO are a super fun bass oriented can.
DBalbock9 the case looks great! I had to look a few times to detect what you did. Way easier access though!
I have access to a wire EDM machine that can cut any metal very accurately...maybe I'll bring my cover into work and cut it also.
I used to roll op-amps a while back and rreally enjoyed the AD823 & TLE-2082 if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[LordZero]

Hi!

Anyone tried this "stock" with the dt880 600ohms? It's good? If I should change something, what should I change?