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Lotoo Paw 6000 (2019)
Dec 9, 2019 at 1:01 PM Post #91 of 1,457
cooperpwc said:
Well I disagree. The Blackfin DSP (BF706) runs the PMEQ and ATE effects on the LPGT. (Actually this is stated explicitly for the BF514 on the LPG. They are being more subtle in the advertising for the LPGT, perhaps in anticipation of the PAW6000.) The OS interface is identical between the LPGT and 6000, hence the same effects. But where and how it is processed is not the same.

(The LPGT has separate dual AKM8142 PLL clocks - nothing to do with the Blackfin.)
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Wait, are you disagreeing with what Lotoo told me directly, the info straight from the design team of LPGT and PAW6000? :D
 
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Dec 9, 2019 at 5:54 PM Post #93 of 1,457
twister6 said:
Wait, are you disagreeing with what Lotoo told me directly, the info straight from the design team of LPGT and PAW6000? :D
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I don't want to get into a fight over this but either you misunderstood or you have been marketed to, this being 6000 time.

They are playing down the Blackfin-based processing now. It is buried on the second page of the LPGT description - not even in the chip graphics layout on the first page. It used to be a big selling point in the LPG days; there was no controversy about the function of the BF DSP back then. You can still see one reference to it in the LPG description.

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Ask yourself: where does the PMEQ get executed in the LPGT if not in the DSP? :)

Peace. I am out.
 
Dec 9, 2019 at 6:58 PM Post #94 of 1,457
cooperpwc said:
I don't want to get into a fight over this but either you misunderstood or you have been marketed to, this being 6000 time.

They are playing down the Blackfin-based processing now. It is buried on the second page of the LPGT description - not even in the chip graphics layout on the first page. It used to be a big selling point in the LPG days; there was no controversy about the function of the BF DSP back then. You can still see one reference to it in the LPG description.



Ask yourself: where does the PMEQ get executed in the LPGT if not in the DSP? :)

Peace. I am out.
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Not really sure, fight about what? A question was raised, I contacted manufacturer and got a reply straight from the horse's mouth. Is there somewhere in their published spec for LPGT or PAW6k where it says otherwise? If it is, please point it out and I'll be glad to contact them again and ask to clarify their spec vs their email reply. Until then, I hear what you are saying, but it's only an assumption which could be misleading to other Head-fi members reading this thread. And it doesn't matter how many time I will "ask myself", we have to rely on the reply from the manufacturer. Sorry, didn't mean to trigger you.
 
Dec 10, 2019 at 3:30 AM Post #95 of 1,457
twister6 said:
Sorry, didn't mean to trigger you.
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Oh dear. Someone just couldn't keep their head out of the gutter. I have no skin in this game. I want the 6000 to be good. But I also want the information to be accurate, not just by rote from the manufacturer, with simplistic questions begging simplistic answers.

A bit of research would have helped. In fact, you could have looked at your own website where you posted original LPGT slides that address this processor issue.

The LPGT has three processing subsystems with independent power supplies. (Note the prominence given the the Blackfin BF706 DSP as the foundation of the sound processing):
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The first subsystem is wireless - for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

Then we have the digital subsystem - which does all the non-audio processing. This is what is based on the ARM processor.

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Then we have the independently powered audio subsystem. This integrates several chips including the ADI Blackfin BF706 Processor, AK4497 DAC Chip, separate dual AK8142 PLL clocks, AK4137EQ upsampler etc. These together do all the audio work, with the BF706 at the heart of the sound processing. (Again, see first slide above.)

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So when you say:

Both LPGT and PAW6000 run PEQ and ATE effects on their main processor, the same ARM chip used in both of these DAPs. That's a reason why PEQ and ATE effect are identical in these DAPs, and also the reason why PAW6k only goes up to DSD256 since it doesn't have Blackfin DSP
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...this is misleading. For the PAW 6000, the OS runs on an ARM processor, but that is all that the 6000 has, i.e. the same processor also does the sound processing. The LPGT by contrast has an ARM processor (i.MX6) to run the OS, including the PMEQ user interface, but then processes the sound on the ADI BF706 which is dedicated for such tasks. (Google it if you don’t believe me...)

The Headfonics reviewer could hear the difference in the PMEQ between them, which makes sense. Full disclosure: I have not had the opportunity to compare them myself, and I received no swag to provide these comments.
 
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Dec 10, 2019 at 7:29 AM Post #96 of 1,457
cooperpwc said:
Oh dear. Someone just couldn't keep their head out of the gutter. I have no skin in this game. I want the 6000 to be good. But I also want the information to be accurate, not just by rote from the manufacturer, with simplistic questions begging simplistic answers.

A bit of research would have helped. In fact, you could have looked at your own website where you posted original LPGT slides that address this processor issue.

The LPGT has three processing systems with independent power supplies. (Note the prominence given the the Blackfin BF706 DSP as the foundation of the sound processing):


The first subsystem is wireless - for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

Then we have the digital subsystem - which does all the non-audio processing.



Then we have the independently powered audio subsystem. This integrates several chips including the ADI Blackfin BF706 Processor, AK4497 DAC Chip, separate dual AK8142 PLL clocks, AK4137EQ upsampler etc. These together do all the audio work, with the BF706 at the heart of the sound processing. (Again, see first slide above.)



So when you say:



...this is misleading. For the PAW 6000, the OS runs on an ARM processor, but that is all that the 6000 has, i.e. the same processor also does the sound processing. The LPGT by contrast has an ARK processor (i.MX6) to run the OS, including the PMEQ interface, but then processes the sound on the ADI BF706 which is dedicated for such tasks. (Google it...)

The Headfonics reviewer could hear the difference in the PMEQ between them, which makes sense. I have not had the opportunity to compare them myself.
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Here is a copy'n'paste straight from Lotoo email reply (explaining BF DSP functionality in reference to PEQ processing in their design):

"On both LPGT and PAW6000, EQ and other effects are running on the main processor ARM iMX6ULL, which is powerful and has very high frequency, it’s software because on digital system there is no real hardware effects. On LPGT, DSP is equipped for two reasons, one is DSD512 support, another is the dual PLL clock. Hope this will answer your questions."

Yes, I do realize you don't have skin in this game, and you have your own explanation of how you think these DAPs designed and operate. Maybe it's based on your own experience and background of writing software, etc. I shared with our community here the explanation provided to me by the manufacturer of the design. I'm not trying to be know-it-all; just quoting what manufacturer told me. If you want to assume that Lotoo changed their core sw PEQ audio processing between LPGT and PAW6k, it's your prerogative, but you have to be clear in your replies to others that its your assumption. So, I'm fine with us agreeing to disagree. Peace and love :D
 
Dec 11, 2019 at 11:53 AM Post #99 of 1,457
Any impressions or review on this? specially compared against wm1z and LPGT
 
Dec 12, 2019 at 3:08 PM Post #102 of 1,457
Nayparm said:
lol I stopped reading after a few lines when it says they both have dual DACs
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I thought that site sells Lotoo products, and reviews it too?
 
Dec 12, 2019 at 6:01 PM Post #104 of 1,457
Nayparm said:
lol I stopped reading after a few lines when it says they both have dual DACs
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LoL that review must have been writen on a aprils 1t fool day lmao
 
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