looking for a speaker setup

[radmanhs]

 

 

The only problem I see here is cost. A relatively new receiver that has both digital input for your PC and analogue input for the TT, plus a preamp output will definitely not be a cheap receiver. Preamp outputs especially are only available on some midrange units, plus the high-end and flagship models. A Zone 2 "preamp" output isn't actually controlled by the volume knob in some models, and in some cases, to prevent piracy, the digital input to the receiver does not work to send audio out that Zone 2 output.

 

What will make it all easier for you, and also with a smaller footprint on your desk, is to use a bunch of Schiit units. Use a Schiit Mani phono preamp for the TT, then maybe use the Modi2 (via USB input, but note that there are cases of driver issues; in which case, you can get the Modi2 Uber, and then use a USB to coax converter that works on your PC), and then hook up both of them to the Schiit Sys - a 2-input passive preamplifier. The total cost would be around $300, but unlike a used receiver for the same money, these will have brand new unit warranties if you order from Schiit. Plus the overall footprint is a lot smaller.

That's what I was thinking before, then I was told it wasn't recommended to add a DAC because it will add another step to the process, but I think getting everything at once with a turntable would be pretty nice.  My desk will be covered with Schiit, on top of my headphone Schiit

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigx5murf /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I doubt anything modern will have a phono input. 

 

He actually listed a separate phono preamp.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmanhs /img/forum/go_quote.gif

That's what I was thinking before, then I was told it wasn't recommended to add a DAC because it will add another step to the process, but I think getting everything at once with a turntable would be pretty nice.  My desk will be covered with Schiit, on top of my headphone Schiit

 

I don't see how a DAC adds "another step," at least one that isn't necessary. The DAC is for your computer, if you totally do not use a DAC, you're "listening" with this, and just looking at binary codes.

 

In any case, you can skip the outboard DAC. Hook up the computer to one input on the Sys, and then the Mani to the other input on the Sys. You get a passive preamp to control the volume of the speakers that can now take a signal from two sources. The DAC does not "add another step" to the signal chain from the TT at all, the Sys does, but again you need two inputs and volume control, so there's really no way around it.

 

If anything, a receiver will - some run their analogue inputs through an ADC, so they can run that signal through their DSP - for example so they can apply a crossover to split hte signal between the mains and subwoofer - and then run it through the receiver's DAC. If you're not using a subwoofer there's no point in doing that.

 

[danielhowk]

  That's what I was thinking before, then I was told it wasn't recommended to add a DAC because it will add another step to the process, but I think getting everything at once with a turntable would be pretty nice.  My desk will be covered with Schiit, on top of my headphone Schiit

 
 

 

 

He actually listed a separate phono preamp.

 

 

I don't see how a DAC adds "another step," at least one that isn't necessary. The DAC is for your computer, if you totally do not use a DAC, you're "listening" with this, and just looking at binary codes.

 

In any case, you can skip the outboard DAC. Hook up the computer to one input on the Sys, and then the Mani to the other input on the Sys. You get a passive preamp to control the volume of the speakers that can now take a signal from two sources. The DAC does not "add another step" to the signal chain from the TT at all, the Sys does, but again you need two inputs and volume control, so there's really no way around it.

 

If anything, a receiver will - some run their analogue inputs through an ADC, so they can run that signal through their DSP - for example so they can apply a crossover to split hte signal between the mains and subwoofer - and then run it through the receiver's DAC. If you're not using a subwoofer there's no point in doing that.

alright. lastly i want to ask, since i listen most of my music from youtube 1080p content. and i play lots of games. 
currently my setup is a pair of Elac b6 and a s10 subwoofer Elac, a av receiver . probably going to buy another SR6009 marantz.
i heard getting a DAC will help improve the sound quality. but since i listen most of my music from youtube 1080p content. and i play lots of games.  will i hear any difference? will there be any difference?
and my asus z170 hero have an inbuild DAC? (not sure if it have or not or its the same thing). getting another external DAC will help? youtube 1080p content and gaming? 

 

[milosingh]

Get a Swan M50.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

alright. lastly i want to ask, since i listen most of my music from youtube 1080p content. and i play lots of games. 

currently my setup is a pair of Elac b6 and a s10 subwoofer Elac, a av receiver . probably going to buy another SR6009 marantz.

i heard getting a DAC will help improve the sound quality. but since i listen most of my music from youtube 1080p content. and i play lots of games.  will i hear any difference? will there be any difference?

and my asus z170 hero have an inbuild DAC? (not sure if it have or not or its the same thing). getting another external DAC will help? youtube 1080p content and gaming? 

 

Like I posted previously, if you're able to listen to digital music files, whatever you use has a DAC somewhere, unless you're in The Matrix and you can visualize (auralize?) the music just by looking at the binary code of it streaming on a display. So yes, your motherboard has one.

 

As for whether you'll notice the difference it's not something we can tell. In some cases people hear a difference because it's a placebo, in some cases it's because one DAC clearly has some design issue vs the other, in some cases there are minor differences but a lot of people can't hear how much more precise the imaging of the soundstage is. In other words we can't give you a sure enough response. For all we know the Z170's DAC is good enough, and although the output stage isn't as good as a good hi-fi DAC, maybe you won't be able to detect the difference, regardless of what you're listening to.

 

[danielhowk]

Get a Swan M50.

 
im currently using it before i change to the B6

 

 

Like I posted previously, if you're able to listen to digital music files, whatever you use has a DAC somewhere, unless you're in The Matrix and you can visualize (auralize?) the music just by looking at the binary code of it streaming on a display. So yes, your motherboard has one.

 

As for whether you'll notice the difference it's not something we can tell. In some cases people hear a difference because it's a placebo, in some cases it's because one DAC clearly has some design issue vs the other, in some cases there are minor differences but a lot of people can't hear how much more precise the imaging of the soundstage is. In other words we can't give you a sure enough response. For all we know the Z170's DAC is good enough, and although the output stage isn't as good as a good hi-fi DAC, maybe you won't be able to detect the difference, regardless of what you're listening to.

okay i get it, because from what i know youtube 1080p and gaming both are using mp3 files. which i thought a DAC wouldnt be able to improve the source. as compared to itunes Waves files. therefore i was asking. but since a DAC could improve mp3 files from youtube and gaming audio, i guess is worth having. and z170 hero already have it anyways.
 
i been told that connecting a hdmi from my desktop to the av receiver is better? but connecting a hdmi is directly from my graphic card input. would my z170 dac able to work there? or strictly only from the audio card from my z170. which have a digital output. when i bought the speakers the sellers said hdmi is better than digital audio output. 
but i dont think they understand the hdmi is from the graphic card whereas digital audio output is from the soundcard from z170hero.
 
When a digital music file gets played, and I use a HDMI connector to my AV-Receiver, does the music file get converted by the DAC available on my motherboard?
Whereas if I use a Digital Audio Output connector to my AV-Receiver, the file should go through my sound card thus being of better quality?
 
so what im trying to ask is if connecting via the hdmi from the graphic card to my AV-Receiver; or connecting via digital audio output from my z170hero to my AV-Receiver is better? 
 
Many thanks for your kind responses. Really appreciate it. I'm slowly getting there.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

okay i get it, because from what i know youtube 1080p and gaming both are using mp3 files. which i thought a DAC wouldnt be able to improve the source. as compared to itunes Waves files. therefore i was asking. but since a DAC could improve mp3 files from youtube and gaming audio, i guess is worth having. and z170 hero already have it anyways.

 

Again, a DAC does not "improve" the sound of the source material - it is what it is, so if it's a crap recording then you can't just apply make-up to it the same way a mortician does to a corpse - only that one DAC design might be inferior to another DAC design, and it isn't even the DAC chip itself that's the problem but the analogue output stage design, since this is where it might add noise, distortion, or outright too high or too low output voltage. If one DAC sounds better than the other, it's not because one of them is improving the audio, but is basically doing a better job at it. Conversely, sometimes the reverse is true - a DAC deliberately made to roll off the high frequencies to produce that fireplace-warm, syrupy and ant-infested honey of audiophile preferred sound is technically doing worse, but an audiophile is going to smile when he hears that fireplace-warm, syrupy, ant-infested audiophile sound, even if Norah Jones sounds like she needs to blow her nose and have some spicy chicken soup.

 

In a motherboard for example the output stage on most isn't exactly anything like what you'd see on a soundcard or an external DAC, barring those red motherboards; and then between a soundcard (and a mobo) vs an external DAC, the former are more likely to pick up noises generated in the computer, followed by USB DACs that rely in varying levels on USB power (ie some only need it to run the USB receiver, which may auto-select it also; in some cases the entire circuit totally runs off USB power, including its headphone amp if it has one), and then finally a DAC with its own power supply and is used via SPDIF (the last one isn't totally immune from computer noise and other issues though).

 

Also it doesn't matter if as much if it's YouTube or FLAC, if the mastering sucks then 320kbps on YouTube vs FLAC isn't going to matter, both will suck. Not all albums are properly mastered but most are good enough barring attention paid to soundstage. Of course, make sure YouTube is playing a real 320kbps track, and apart from what it says, you have no idea if the third party upload actually used a 192kbps track illegally downloaded then uploaded into a fan-made lyric video. Bottomline is, if it sucks, your DAC isn't going to magically remaster it in real time. Or even any kind of processing not in real time.

 

 

 

 
i been told that connecting a hdmi from my desktop to the av receiver is better? but connecting a hdmi is directly from my graphic card input. would my z170 dac able to work there? or strictly only from the audio card from my z170. which have a digital output. when i bought the speakers the sellers said hdmi is better than digital audio output. 
but i dont think they understand the hdmi is from the graphic card whereas digital audio output is from the soundcard from z170hero.
 
 
When a digital music file gets played, and I use a HDMI connector to my AV-Receiver, does the music file get converted by the DAC available on my motherboard?
Whereas if I use a Digital Audio Output connector to my AV-Receiver, the file should go through my sound card thus being of better quality?
 
so what im trying to ask is if connecting via the hdmi from the graphic card to my AV-Receiver; or connecting via digital audio output from my z170hero to my AV-Receiver is better? 

 
Your motherboard's DAC will not be used if you use HDMI, regardless of whether that HDMI port is on your graphics card or your motherboard. HDMI is digital transmission, whereas a digital signal goes into a DAC and then comes out as analogue. The DAC of whatever receiver you use will be what will decode the signal if you use HDMI.
 
If you want to use your soundcard, and you use it via its digital audio output, you will again not be using the DAC on the soundcard, but on the receiver. The difference in this case is that you can use the DSP chip on the soundcard. Same thing if you use the digital audio output on your motherboard and yours happens to have a fully-featured DSP chip as well.
 
That said, the only really useful feature on the DSP chips on soundcards and motherboards are Dolby Headphone/SBX ProStudio (or any other kind of surround simulator on headphones) and universal EQ effect (ie compared to Foobar's EQ that only works with Foobar, these work with every material played on your PC - games and streamed content included - although EQ features are limited anyway). Obviously for speakers you won't be using Dolby Headphone.

 

[danielhowk]

 

 

Again, a DAC does not "improve" the sound of the source material - it is what it is, so if it's a crap recording then you can't just apply make-up to it the same way a mortician does to a corpse - only that one DAC design might be inferior to another DAC design, and it isn't even the DAC chip itself that's the problem but the analogue output stage design, since this is where it might add noise, distortion, or outright too high or too low output voltage. If one DAC sounds better than the other, it's not because one of them is improving the audio, but is basically doing a better job at it. Conversely, sometimes the reverse is true - a DAC deliberately made to roll off the high frequencies to produce that fireplace-warm, syrupy and ant-infested honey of audiophile preferred sound is technically doing worse, but an audiophile is going to smile when he hears that fireplace-warm, syrupy, ant-infested audiophile sound, even if Norah Jones sounds like she needs to blow her nose and have some spicy chicken soup.

 

In a motherboard for example the output stage on most isn't exactly anything like what you'd see on a soundcard or an external DAC, barring those red motherboards; and then between a soundcard (and a mobo) vs an external DAC, the former are more likely to pick up noises generated in the computer, followed by USB DACs that rely in varying levels on USB power (ie some only need it to run the USB receiver, which may auto-select it also; in some cases the entire circuit totally runs off USB power, including its headphone amp if it has one), and then finally a DAC with its own power supply and is used via SPDIF (the last one isn't totally immune from computer noise and other issues though).

 

Also it doesn't matter if as much if it's YouTube or FLAC, if the mastering sucks then 320kbps on YouTube vs FLAC isn't going to matter, both will suck. Not all albums are properly mastered but most are good enough barring attention paid to soundstage. Of course, make sure YouTube is playing a real 320kbps track, and apart from what it says, you have no idea if the third party upload actually used a 192kbps track illegally downloaded then uploaded into a fan-made lyric video. Bottomline is, if it sucks, your DAC isn't going to magically remaster it in real time. Or even any kind of processing not in real time.

 

 

 
 
Your motherboard's DAC will not be used if you use HDMI, regardless of whether that HDMI port is on your graphics card or your motherboard. HDMI is digital transmission, whereas a digital signal goes into a DAC and then comes out as analogue. The DAC of whatever receiver you use will be what will decode the signal if you use HDMI.
 
If you want to use your soundcard, and you use it via its digital audio output, you will again not be using the DAC on the soundcard, but on the receiver. The difference in this case is that you can use the DSP chip on the soundcard. Same thing if you use the digital audio output on your motherboard and yours happens to have a fully-featured DSP chip as well.
 
That said, the only really useful feature on the DSP chips on soundcards and motherboards are Dolby Headphone/SBX ProStudio (or any other kind of surround simulator on headphones) and universal EQ effect (ie compared to Foobar's EQ that only works with Foobar, these work with every material played on your PC - games and streamed content included - although EQ features are limited anyway). Obviously for speakers you won't be using Dolby Headphone.

Thank you so much, just to verify, if i wont be using the DSP chip's universal EQ effect Dolby Headphone/SBX ProStudio and universal EQ effect. Using either digital audio output and hdmi as connector from my pc will result in equal sound quality output?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Thank you so much, just to verify, if i wont be using the DSP chip's universal EQ effect Dolby Headphone/SBX ProStudio and universal EQ effect. Using either digital audio output and hdmi as connector from my pc will result in equal sound quality output?

 
As long as there aren't any DSP effects working, then the sound will be the same. Just note that using the SPDIF output means you will have the signal go through the DSP chip, so you need to check and make sure none of the sound shaping features are operating.

 

[danielhowk]

   
As long as there aren't any DSP effects working, then the sound will be the same. Just note that using the SPDIF output means you will have the signal go through the DSP chip, so you need to check and make sure none of the sound shaping features are operating.

TEAC is it a good brand? i tried going to my distributor today. not sure if i should get marantz or TEAC? brand any good model out there? my distributor stopped selling marantz and started asking me to check out TEAC. if i want to stick with marantz i have to find some other distributor.
not sure if TEAC or marantz would suit my need more?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  TEAC is it a good brand? i tried going to my distributor today. not sure if i should get marantz or TEAC? brand any good model out there? my distributor stopped selling marantz and started asking me to check out TEAC. if i want to stick with marantz i have to find some other distributor.
not sure if TEAC or marantz would suit my need more?

 
I haven't tried either of those but if anything Marantz CDPs and integrated amps have decent headphone amplifiers.

 

[danielhowk]

   
I haven't tried either of those but if anything Marantz CDPs and integrated amps have decent headphone amplifiers.

i see. do you know if TEAC is a reputable brand just like marantz?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  i see. do you know if TEAC is a reputable brand just like marantz?

 
It is, but again, speakers aren't the same thing as headphones, kind of like how NAD and Rotel make 156ohm output impedance headphone outputs on their amplifiers. As it is Teac is best known for CDPs and transports, not even amplifiers, so as far as the decoding on a DAC-HPamp is concerned one half is sure to be good. The other half you need to search for actual reviews on rather than just straight up gamble on it.

 

[danielhowk]

   
It is, but again, speakers aren't the same thing as headphones, kind of like how NAD and Rotel make 156ohm output impedance headphone outputs on their amplifiers. As it is Teac is best known for CDPs and transports, not even amplifiers, so as far as the decoding on a DAC-HPamp is concerned one half is sure to be good. The other half you need to search for actual reviews on rather than just straight up gamble on it.

I want to say thanks again, finally installed with TEAC A-H01 a usd DAC amplifier. everything is working awesome. thanks so much for your awesome help.
i want to ask how long must i play and which song is the best for my speakers to "break in" and how loud it should be?
 
duration 
song type
volume level

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
i want to ask how long must i play and which song is the best for my speakers to "break in" and how loud it should be?
 
duration 
song type
volume level

 
Just use it, maybe leave it running all day as long as you're home. All night playing anything at a low enough volume to let you sleep if you weren't home. There's no fixed manner of doing this so just run it as often as you safely and conveniently can, and listen to it as much as you can.