looking for a speaker setup

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

i want to buy a Elac B6 (pair for 2.0 system. near field) for desktop usage. which amp/ receiver would you recommend? from what ive read it seems elac b6 will be better, in terms of bass.

but my oh my. did the Adam Ribbon tweeter sound great. is like orgasm to the ear. but with pros and cons on what type of music i listen to. i might need to get the elacb6. so please recommend a good setup for it since it needs an amp/receiver to go with it.

again sorry for the late reply. pc died 

 

Actually I wouldn't really bet on a passive speaker having "more" bass than an active speaker, unless we're talking about something like the Focal Grande Utopia which has actual subwoofers in them.

 

Dirk Nowitzki for scale

 

See these on the input and control panel on the F5? 

Active monitors have separate amplifiers for each tweeter and each midwoofer, and they have individual adjustments to compensate for room modes. Did you tweak these when you listened to them? Because you can make the bass pop out more on an active monitor just by reducing the tweeter amps' levels. If it's still not enough you can do a little boost on the midwoofer amp. I do the same thing in my car - to compensate for the proximity to the tweeters, the high output of my amplifier, and the windshield reflections my Vifa tweeters are set to -6dB on the processor and 0dB gain on their amplifier.

 

 

Best of all, if you add a subwoofer later on, the F5 comes with a filter, so even if the subwoofer only has an unfiltered line out (you connect the preamp to the sub first, then run that line out to the speakers), you can flip that toggle switch on the bottom and skim off everything below 80hz.

 

Now if you're really set on using a receiver that can only use two channels through passive crossovers to drive the speakers, HT receivers have the same filters too, and maybe some newer 2ch receivers. At minimum get one with subwoofer line out if you plan on getting one, like the NAD D3020. If not, look into more conventional stereo amps as they're likely to cost much less, like the NAD C315BEE or 316BEE.

 

[danielhowk]

 

 

Actually I wouldn't really bet on a passive speaker having "more" bass than an active speaker, unless we're talking about something like the Focal Grande Utopia which has actual subwoofers in them.

 

Dirk Nowitzki for scale

 

See these on the input and control panel on the F5? 

Active monitors have separate amplifiers for each tweeter and each midwoofer, and they have individual adjustments to compensate for room modes. Did you tweak these when you listened to them? Because you can make the bass pop out more on an active monitor just by reducing the tweeter amps' levels. If it's still not enough you can do a little boost on the midwoofer amp. I do the same thing in my car - to compensate for the proximity to the tweeters, the high output of my amplifier, and the windshield reflections my Vifa tweeters are set to -6dB on the processor and 0dB gain on their amplifier.

 

 

 

i didnt change the back of it at all, the people in Adam set it for me. cause im too unexperienced for this. do you think the jbl have settings like the Adam F5? or its just the F5.
which settings should i set for maximum bass? but will the quality of all the sound be worst if i change the settings?

 

Best of all, if you add a subwoofer later on, the F5 comes with a filter, so even if the subwoofer only has an unfiltered line out (you connect the preamp to the sub first, then run that line out to the speakers), you can flip that toggle switch on the bottom and skim off everything below 80hz.

 

Now if you're really set on using a receiver that can only use two channels through passive crossovers to drive the speakers, HT receivers have the same filters too, and maybe some newer 2ch receivers. At minimum get one with subwoofer line out if you plan on getting one, like the NAD D3020. If not, look into more conventional stereo amps as they're likely to cost much less, like the NAD C315BEE or 316BEE.

you would suggest me getting a pair of F5 Adam and a subwoofer? i need to get a volume control as Adam only way to control them is at the back of speaker.
i just thought that B6 elac would be better sounding. i cant test it here in  my country as i cant find any elac distributors in malaysia.
i assume i need a different subwoofer for the adam and Elac b6?
since im getting a little better a audio brands. which subwoofer would you recommend? i know ive been asking, ive been checking around so far none that people mention that i could have it here under $250 for a subwoofer.
can any 10inch subwoofer do the job? or theres good and bad one out there?

 

[danielhowk]

  I've had a set of klipsch promedia 4.1 (been using them as 2.1 mostly after rear channel novelty wore off), since 2002. They lasted me from highschool, throughout college dorm life, till now, the foam surrounds on my sub finally deteriorated a few months ago. For the money, I'm guessing they're going to be really difficult to beat unless you hunt down used deals. Their signature is pretty much overwhelming bass though. A good DAC will tighten up their bass significantly though, so highly recommend budgeting for one with them. 

i didnt expect a DAC to improve sound quality. not at least by noticable margin

 

[bigx5murf]

  i didnt expect a DAC to improve sound quality. not at least by noticable margin

It was a very noticeable difference from my onboard sound, which was supposed to be one of the better ones. Gigabyte 990fx-ud3 motherboard. The onboard is a realtek 889, separated from the rest of the system, and uses nichon caps, boasting a snr of 108db. The most noticeable difference with the promedia was bass, from the onboard it just just loose and boomy. From the DAC, it was tight, and punchy. But instrumental sounds were also noticeably improved. The vocals sound a bit flatter with a DAC, but I suspect I might've just been used to the way the onboard was coloring them. I do feel in fps, positional audio doesn't quite work through a DAC.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

i didnt change the back of it at all, the people in Adam set it for me. cause im too unexperienced for this. 

 

That's because they're being sold by a pro audio store and they set it up as intended. The variable settings are there so that if the room boosts the treble because of reflections, you can cut the treble, maybe boost the bass also (or vice versa), but ultimately the goal is to keep the response as flat as possible within the range the speakers are designed for. This is not done with an EQ DSP, only to change the balance of the amplifier gain on the tweeter vs the midwoofer so in effect you end up with a flat response (or a bass-boosted one as you require). The deep bass range it can't reach is handled by a subwoofer, but even in that regard active monitors are better - similar size passive speakers can't reach as low, and you won't have the separate balance control. Not that you can't, but you have to to tweak the crossover so it trims the tweeter more or less depending on what you need.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

do you think the jbl have settings like the Adam F5? or its just the F5.

 

Similar, but instead of a knob, it has a toggle switch for Hi-pass or Low-pass at +/-2dB.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

which settings should i set for maximum bass? but will the quality of all the sound be worst if i change the settings?

 

Worse if for example the person who set it up where you listened to them was able to set them to a balanced sound and you want it to have a bass boost. For the most part the variable gain wouldn't lead to distortion within sane listening levels.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

you would suggest me getting a pair of F5 Adam and a subwoofer? i need to get a volume control as Adam only way to control them is at the back of speaker.

 

If you need slamming deep bass then yes. There's no other way around it - no similar sized bookshelf speaker will reach lower and slam harder can defeat simple physics. If you don't want a subwoofer but you want deep bass, you would just basically use a multi-driver tower speaker that uses a subwoofer on each tower hooked up to the same crossover network.

 

Or two in each.

 
 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

i just thought that B6 elac would be better sounding. i cant test it here in  my country as i cant find any elac distributors in malaysia.

 

Maybe in other aspects, but not likely bass in absolute and relative terms, given the physical limitations plus it can't just change the balance of the sound with just a switch. And this assumes your room isn't affecting the balance to begin with, and if it does, you have to choose: flip a switch, or whip out a soldering iron? I don't know about you but the switch seems more convenient.

 

That said, if you're going to use a subwoofer anyway, then that would matter less. However due to the crossover integration it might. On passive speakers you'll need an HT receiver, or a modern Network Stereo Receiver (or a soundcard, ca audio processor, etc) that can apply the high-pass filters for the mains and a low pass for the subwoofer. Pro gear are more likely to have the filters integrated into the powered speakers' and sub's amplifiers.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

 

 

i assume i need a different subwoofer for the adam and Elac b6?

 

 

Yes. Many home audio brand subwoofers are designed to be used with either an integrated amplifier's speaker output as its input, where it gets the signal for its amp, then passes the same signal back out to the speakers; or they have an RCA input or two marked as "LFE," for the subwoofer output of an HT (or modern stereo) receiver. A pro audio subwoofer tends to have a line level input and output, the latter probably has a high pass filter applied, or in some cases the main speakers do (as on the F5).
 

  since im getting a little better a audio brands. which subwoofer would you recommend? i know ive been asking, ive been checking around so far none that people mention that i could have it here under $250 for a subwoofer.
can any 10inch subwoofer do the job? or theres good and bad one out there?

 
Go back to the same store where you tested the Adams and see what subwoofers they have.

 

[danielhowk]

 

 

That's because they're being sold by a pro audio store and they set it up as intended. The variable settings are there so that if the room boosts the treble because of reflections, you can cut the treble, maybe boost the bass also (or vice versa), but ultimately the goal is to keep the response as flat as possible within the range the speakers are designed for. This is not done with an EQ DSP, only to change the balance of the amplifier gain on the tweeter vs the midwoofer so in effect you end up with a flat response (or a bass-boosted one as you require). The deep bass range it can't reach is handled by a subwoofer, but even in that regard active monitors are better - similar size passive speakers can't reach as low, and you won't have the separate balance control. Not that you can't, but you have to to tweak the crossover so it trims the tweeter more or less depending on what you need.

 

 

Similar, but instead of a knob, it has a toggle switch for Hi-pass or Low-pass at +/-2dB.

 

 

Worse if for example the person who set it up where you listened to them was able to set them to a balanced sound and you want it to have a bass boost. For the most part the variable gain wouldn't lead to distortion within sane listening levels.

 

 

 

If you need slamming deep bass then yes. There's no other way around it - no similar sized bookshelf speaker will reach lower and slam harder can defeat simple physics. If you don't want a subwoofer but you want deep bass, you would just basically use a multi-driver tower speaker that uses a subwoofer on each tower hooked up to the same crossover network.

 

Or two in each.

 
 
 

 

Maybe in other aspects, but not likely bass in absolute and relative terms, given the physical limitations plus it can't just change the balance of the sound with just a switch. And this assumes your room isn't affecting the balance to begin with, and if it does, you have to choose: flip a switch, or whip out a soldering iron? I don't know about you but the switch seems more convenient.

 

That said, if you're going to use a subwoofer anyway, then that would matter less. However due to the crossover integration it might. On passive speakers you'll need an HT receiver, or a modern Network Stereo Receiver (or a soundcard, ca audio processor, etc) that can apply the high-pass filters for the mains and a low pass for the subwoofer. Pro gear are more likely to have the filters integrated into the powered speakers' and sub's amplifiers.

 

 

Yes. Many home audio brand subwoofers are designed to be used with either an integrated amplifier's speaker output as its input, where it gets the signal for its amp, then passes the same signal back out to the speakers; or they have an RCA input or two marked as "LFE," for the subwoofer output of an HT (or modern stereo) receiver. A pro audio subwoofer tends to have a line level input and output, the latter probably has a high pass filter applied, or in some cases the main speakers do (as on the F5).
 
 
Go back to the same store where you tested the Adams and see what subwoofers they have.

Thanks, ive decided to go with a subwoofer, either going with Adam F5 with a subwoofer or the Elac b6 + Elac subwoofer. 
i've been told that speakers like adam f5 that have its on amplifier build in, normally wouldnt sound as good as Elac b6, which requires and additional amplifier. is it true? 
assuming that the total price is about the same. adam f5 a pair = 500 and elac b6 pair = 280usd + amp 200usd?

 

[cuiter23]

  Thanks, ive decided to go with a subwoofer, either going with Adam F5 with a subwoofer or the Elac b6 + Elac subwoofer. 
i've been told that speakers like adam f5 that have its on amplifier build in, normally wouldnt sound as good as Elac b6, which requires and additional amplifier. is it true? 
assuming that the total price is about the same. adam f5 a pair = 500 and elac b6 pair = 280usd + amp 200usd?

 
The Adam F5 are monitors and the Elac B6s are HiFi speakers.
 
I would do some more research on what you really need and the type of sound you are looking for. More research into passive vs. active speakers will also help in your case. 

 

[danielhowk]

   
The Adam F5 are monitors and the Elac B6s are HiFi speakers.
 
I would do some more research on what you really need and the type of sound you are looking for. More research into passive vs. active speakers will also help in your case. 

im using for desktop computer usage. from what i heard passive speakers like elac b6 will always be better sounding? 
i listen to edm, pop and i watch movies + gaming. planning to get subwoofer along with it.

 

[cuiter23]

  im using for desktop computer usage. from what i heard passive speakers like elac b6 will always be better sounding? 
i listen to edm, pop and i watch movies + gaming. planning to get subwoofer along with it.

 
For the most part that is true. Dollar for dollar I would recommend a passive set-up over an active one if your main purpose is listening to music.

 

[GreenBow]

Did you decide or buy.
 
Just one last thing to factor into budget. the cables from DAC or source to active speaker.
 
Ages ago I recommended among other speakers, and bought the Q coustics BT3 a while ago. They are pretty big for desktop, but fine I think. They have been reduced significantly recently and be bought for £210, down from £350.
 
I use a Meridian Explorer DAC which bests my PC (on-board) DAC. Initially after the speakers had plenty of time to run in I was OK with them. I felt pleased but kind of dissapponted though. I knew getting a proper inter-connect to cable from DAC to speakers was important, since I was using analogue connection. I was using a basic black, £2 analogue 3.5mm to RCA cable. (They can be connected optically too.)
 
Anyway I was liking them with music and gaming. Initially they had very little bass. It took about a week for the bass to fill out during burn-in. Details were OK, but I wasn't bouncing about sparkling with excitement about them. Anyway I argued backwards and forwards about which analogue cable to buy. I eventually bought the QED Reference Audio J2P, £60. Perfect! From the moment I plugged it in, the magic was happening. Over time the speakers burned-in more and the cable did too. They just got better and better.
 
While I don't want to give the impression this is outstanding kit, it is brilliant desktop stuff. They do have a hi-fi type sound rather than just good audio type gear. With music it's great. The cable brought the soundstage forward. It focused the sound, and spaced it out. Intruments have their own space in the soundfield. Stuff that sounded harsh with the cheap cable, now sounds as it should. The cheap cable also had another adverse effect, by making some sounds appear like the tone the cabinets were making. The QED cable fixed that overnight.
 
PC gaming is way off the charts with audio like this. I always used to use my Grado SR225e. However now I prefer speakers. With the soundstage being deepish, stuff sounds cinematic. It doesn't sound like something flat laid out in front. It sounds almost normal like you were really there. The only time it misses something is in rain when you expect it to come from behind too. However this set up makes a very good go of it, soundsing atmospheric and real. Details are awesome. I am currently playing The Witcher 3 for the first time. It's amazing and brillaint audio helps tie it together.
 
Whatever you do then, budget for a proper inter-connect. Secondly though the BT3 like other actives, have a DAC built in. I coule take an SPDIF signal from my PC. Or I could run it out ot the digital output from my Meridian Explorer. That option would send an asynchronous to the speakers and be better than straight from PC.
 
They come with basic black cable to connect the passive speaker and I will buy some Chord Clearway for that. I also intend to open the active speaker and make sure it has good speaker cable too. The only way to better this would be the Keff Egg which hold best desktop speaker awards. Or something like the Onkyo A9010 and Q Acoustics 3020; or better.

 

[danielhowk]

   
The combo should be 
"B6 Elac (pair) + DAC(such as Modi 2 Uber) + Amplifier + motherboard"

 
 

 

 

You can't just use optical into an amplifier. Optical is SPDIF - Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format. Digital. That means the output from there is in 1101000010100000011010101010110000100101000101. You need a DAC to decode that.

 

When people suggest using the optical or coax output from a motherboard to a headphone amplifier, that's because many headphones are essentially like receivers - meaning, they have a DAC and an amplifier in the same box, and then have a preamplifier output to feed and control powered speakers. These are used with powered speakers like the JBL LSR305, Adam F5, Swans D200, etc - look again at the diagram I provided. Speakers with amplifiers built in can take a preamplifier output from an interface or a DAC-HPamp. The Elacs are not powered speakers, they are passive - that's why in the diagram I provided the NAD amplifier driving them is using RCA analogue inputs from a cropped photo of a NAD CDP's RCA analogue output.

 

That said there are amps that can take digital inputs, called receivers traditionally as they also take in a lot of different inputs, or you can use direct digital amplifiers. Or any speaker amp with a USB DAC built into the chassis.

 

Example of a stereo receiver for powering speakers (link below), note the 2x optical and 2x coaxial inputs. 

http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-8050&class=Receiver&source=prodClass

 

Example of a direct digital speaker amplifier (link below) - note the relative lack of inputs and outputs due to the design eliminating many analogue sections as on a traditional design.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/amplifier-reviews/nuforce-dda-100-review/

 

Examples of speaker amps with USB DACs (link below).

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nuforce7/icon.html

http://www.parts-express.com/topping-tp30-class-t-digital-mini-amplifier-with-usb-dac-15-wpc--310-312

 

Example of a DAC-HPamp-Preamp: 

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm

http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/conductor/

 

Example of an audio interface, ie, DAC+ADC, with preamp:

http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2

 

 

You can see which of these products can drive the Elac or feed the LSR305 just by looking at which outputs on any of them look like the inputs on the speakers.

Today i bought a pair of Elac b6 and s10 subwoofer, im using a marantz 6009 av receiver.
how do i connect it to my desktop, my motherboard is z170 hero. i have 2 monitors. 
and making it display on my 2 monitors side by side.
like this https://www.google.com/search?q=dual+monitor+setup&tbm=isch&imgil=PtxIinOewufGLM%253A%253BYG0f8hQgA15p4M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fnerdbusiness.com%25252Fblog%25252Ftop-96-kick-ass-home-office-setups&source=iu&pf=m&fir=PtxIinOewufGLM%253A%252CYG0f8hQgA15p4M%252C_&biw=2560&bih=1315&ved=0ahUKEwjOqZf6nLjKAhXGCI4KHe5fCUQQyjcIOA&ei=YmefVs7wGsaRuATuv6WgBA#imgrc=PtxIinOewufGLM%3A
i connect Elac b6 and subwoofer s10 to maratnz 6009 receiver then a hdmi to my desktop and another hdmi to a single monitor.
im running 2 monitor. how do i make 2 monitors on at the same time?
 having 1 monitor on with the setup is working but 2 monitors seems tricky. help please thanks
 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Today i bought a pair of Elac b6 and s10 subwoofer, im using a marantz 6009 av receiver.
how do i connect it to my desktop, my motherboard is z170 hero. i have 2 monitors. 
and making it display on my 2 monitors side by side.
like this 

 

i connect Elac b6 and subwoofer s10 to maratnz 6009 receiver then a hdmi to my desktop and another hdmi to a single monitor.

im running 2 monitor. how do i make 2 monitors on at the same time?

 having 1 monitor on with the setup is working but 2 monitors seems tricky. help please thanks

 

 

OK...how does dual monitor work on your computer, without the SR6009? Are both connected to a single graphics card, or one graphics card each? If the second monitor is normally connected to the motherboard, what you should do is run the output from the mobo into the SR6009, then hook up the second monitor to the Marantz. Select the appropriate input and output settings on the receiver - second monitor display should appear as normal, and then as long as the mobo is spitting out HDMI1.3 or higher, then you just configure it to prioritize digital audio transmission through the mobo's HDMI output.

 

[danielhowk]

 

 

OK...how does dual monitor work on your computer, without the SR6009? Are both connected to a single graphics card, or one graphics card each? If the second monitor is normally connected to the motherboard, what you should do is run the output from the mobo into the SR6009, then hook up the second monitor to the Marantz. Select the appropriate input and output settings on the receiver - second monitor display should appear as normal, and then as long as the mobo is spitting out HDMI1.3 or higher, then you just configure it to prioritize digital audio transmission through the mobo's HDMI output.

without the sr6009, my normal connection is.
both my monitor connect to my graphic card, both monitor using hdmi input, so 2 monitor using a total of 2 hdmi cable, 1 each connecting to the graphic card. 
no monitor is connecting to the motherboard, both to the graphic card
 
the only thing that connect to the motherboard before this is audio output from the motherboard being connected to my old m50w swan hivi speakers. no display connect to the motherboard

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhowk /img/forum/go_quote.gif

without the sr6009, my normal connection is.

both my monitor connect to my graphic card, both monitor using hdmi input, so 2 monitor using a total of 2 hdmi cable, 1 each connecting to the graphic card. 

no monitor is connecting to the motherboard, both to the graphic card

 

the only thing that connect to the motherboard before this is audio output from the motherboard being connected to my old m50w swan hivi speakers. no display connect to the motherboard

 

Just took a more detailed look into the SR6009. Here's a couple of ways to hook that up:

 

1. SPDIF - the SR6009 has two optical and two coaxial; AFAIK your mobo has one optical output. Manually select this in Windows.

 

2. If you'll just use files stored in your computer (ie no streaming), a more convenient way to use the SR6009 is through its "Network" function. Hook up the receiver to the router via a LAN cable, and then as long as you have an external HDD/NAS hooked up to the home network, you just need the app on a smartphone or tablet so you can use that as an interface device.

 

I'd say do the first now, and then save up for an NAS so you can do the second, which will allow you to listen without the need to run the computer.

 

[danielhowk]

 

 

Just took a more detailed look into the SR6009. Here's a couple of ways to hook that up:

 

1. SPDIF - the SR6009 has two optical and two coaxial; AFAIK your mobo has one optical output. Manually select this in Windows.

 

2. If you'll just use files stored in your computer (ie no streaming), a more convenient way to use the SR6009 is through its "Network" function. Hook up the receiver to the router via a LAN cable, and then as long as you have an external HDD/NAS hooked up to the home network, you just need the app on a smartphone or tablet so you can use that as an interface device.

 

I'd say do the first now, and then save up for an NAS so you can do the second, which will allow you to listen without the need to run the computer.

and i wont be using it just for music, my computer is always 24/7 so yeah technically whenever the av receiver is on my desktop is always on.im using it to play games and stream
 
option 1. basically use the digital optical output from my motherboard connecting it to the marantz av receiver 6009. 
then 2 hdmi cables , connecting it to both my monitor to the graphic card? 
 
doesnt the av receiver need an output?