[Socrates]

Quote:

Sure but I need a E-Mail address. My PRIR's are from AIX, doubt they will do you much good.
 

That would be great. As I say it would be fun to compare with my Def Tech set up and I could post back my findings. It would be hit or miss if your setting sounded good to me, but one can always hope. My e-mail is kcollins@ari.ie
Thanks very much
 

 

[TruBrew]

So i just finished reading all 1000+ posts. It as definitely useful, but I have a few more questions. The first one was asked already, but I never saw an answer. 
 
1. I will be running the analog signal out from my Onkyo 708. I will also have speakers plugged into the receiver. Will I end up with sound coming out of both the headphones and the speakers? Or does the receiver know when the analog outs are being used, and disables the internal amps. That is what I am hoping for, otherwise I am going to have some issues. 
 
2. Has anyone actually tried the LCD-2 with the Realiser. I was told Ed Wood liked the HE-6 better, but from all the posts I read, I saw no mention of him ever trying the LCD-2. I own both, but will likely sell one very soon. Most likely the LCD-2 since there are so many encouraging things being said about the HE-6.
 
3. Now to tactile transducers. I am thinking about buying a pair of the Crowsons. Once again I am glad I read the whole thread, because I read about the 10% off. That is not a question though. I mainly sit in a computer chair, but I do have a more squishy chair near by. I can't really think of another way to describe it. Obviously I can not place the Crowson transducer underneath the feet of my Embody chair, so I was thinking of using a platform. My idea was to use a large piece of plywood, maybe 3/4 in thick. Place transducers on the corners and then some rubber feet in a few other spots to support it. Then I could swap chairs around as needed. I have no experience with this sort of product, do you think that will work.
 
4. Also relating the the transducers. The Crowson amp seems overpriced since I do not need all of the features. I am thinking about an Emotiva UPA-2, do you think that would work?
 
5. Do any of you guys use this for gaming. I read one mention of Mi Casa being a better sound for video gaming. I was wondering if anyone else agreed with that or how the newer JBL system at AIX works for that. I don't want to spent the extra money going to a second studio if I will never use the recording.
 
 
I bout a Realiser today from a custom installer. I got a good deal and it should be here on Monday. Now I am trying to make sure I get everything rolling. When Lorr gets back in the office next week from that Audio show in Atlanta, I will be setting up a visit to LA.

 

[sillysally]

Quote:

So i just finished reading all 1000+ posts. It as definitely useful, but I have a few more questions. The first one was asked already, but I never saw an answer. 
 
1. I will be running the analog signal out from my Onkyo 708. I will also have speakers plugged into the receiver. Will I end up with sound coming out of both the headphones and the speakers? Or does the receiver know when the analog outs are being used, and disables the internal amps. That is what I am hoping for, otherwise I am going to have some issues. 
 
 
Quote:

Not a ideal way to go, but you should be able to config your Onkyo to do what you want
 

 
2. Has anyone actually tried the LCD-2 with the Realiser. I was told Ed Wood liked the HE-6 better, but from all the posts I read, I saw no mention of him ever trying the LCD-2. I own both, but will likely sell one very soon. Most likely the LCD-2 since there are so many encouraging things being said about the HE-6.
 
 
Quote:

Yes I think Ed did have the LCD-2 also. The HE-6 is the way to go but you will have to properly amp the HE-6.
Also if you go with the HE-6 you may want to do as I did and Ed suggested, that is to get a better DAC. I got the Audio-GD DAC19 DSPv5, works very well using a wireworld supernova 6 TOSlink from my Realiser to my DAC19.
The DAC the Realiser uses is a PCM 1794, the DAC's the DAC19 uses are the PCM 1704UK.
 

 
3. Now to tactile transducers. I am thinking about buying a pair of the Crowsons. Once again I am glad I read the whole thread, because I read about the 10% off. That is not a question though. I mainly sit in a computer chair, but I do have a more squishy chair near by. I can't really think of another way to describe it. Obviously I can not place the Crowson transducer underneath the feet of my Embody chair, so I was thinking of using a platform. My idea was to use a large piece of plywood, maybe 3/4 in thick. Place transducers on the corners and then some rubber feet in a few other spots to support it. Then I could swap chairs around as needed. I have no experience with this sort of product, do you think that will work.
 
Quote:

 
Don't think that will work very well

 
 
4. Also relating the the transducers. The Crowson amp seems overpriced since I do not need all of the features. I am thinking about an Emotiva UPA-2, do you think that would work?
 
Quote:

 
I have the Level 2 Shadow Stereo Motion System: A300b Amplifier with TES100SS and love it. Try it your way and hear for yourself if not get the A300b amp.

 
 
5. Do any of you guys use this for gaming. I read one mention of Mi Casa being a better sound for video gaming. I was wondering if anyone else agreed with that or how the newer JBL system at AIX works for that. I don't want to spent the extra money going to a second studio if I will never use the recording.
 
 
I bout a Realiser today from a custom installer. I got a good deal and it should be here on Monday. Now I am trying to make sure I get everything rolling. When Lorr gets back in the office next week from that Audio show in Atlanta, I will be setting up a visit to LA.

 

 

[sillysally]

Quote:

That would be great. As I say it would be fun to compare with my Def Tech set up and I could post back my findings. It would be hit or miss if your setting sounded good to me, but one can always hope. My e-mail is kcollins@ari.ie
Thanks very much
 

Sent.

 

[sillysally]

 
If you guys want to try bass management in the Realiser and have no other BM, that includes your PRIR.
Note, these settings are only if there is no other bass management turn on in your other gears. The values are for no bass increase or decrease from your source player/pre. For other values for bass management see Bass considerations in the owners manual.
 
Press the menu button, SW button, put pointer on the SW vSpkr setup1 press ok, press ok for filters, put pointer on HPF set to yes, press ok, put pointer on Mix Block press ok, set all ch that are used in the PRIR to 0.3 except SW set SW to 0.0 (once on SW press ok button and enter the 0.3 value for the other ch that are being used, now press ok button, move pointer down to LPF MIX and set to YES, press ok button, press Exit button.
Bass management is now set, if you what to keep save BM the next time you start your Realiser for that PRIR, press menu, press the preset button, put pointer on the save button, press ok, these settings are now saved for that PRIR.
 
If you use the TAC set the Mixed Block the same.
 
 

 

[Socrates]

Quote:

Sent.

Many thanks. I'll post back on how they sound.
 
 

 

[Erik Garci]

TruBrew,
 
1. Some older receivers have multichannel main-ins (such as the NAD T773 and Marantz SR9600), and some newer receivers have a pre-amp-only mode (such as the Denon AVR-4311, Denon AVR-A100, Yamaha RX-Z11, Yamaha RX-Z7).  However, the Onkyo 708 has neither of these features, so you would have to disconnect the speakers either by hand or by using a switch (such as the Russound AB-2.2 or Niles DPS-1).  I use two Russound switches to disconnect 7 speakers (and I also power off the subwoofer amplifiers).
 
3. I have not tried using a platform with my Crowson transducers, but I think it would work fine.  The transducers will move the platform as well as the chair that is on it.
 
4. The UPA-2 is probably powerful enough to produce the amount of motion that you want, especially for just a chair.
 

 

[TruBrew]

Can you explain to me how you use 2 Russound AB-2.2 to connect/disconnect 7 speakers. It would seem as if I could only disconnect one pair per unit. I bought the Onkyo before I knew I was buying the Realiser. I don't know if I would have bought something different if I had the chance to do it over. The other receivers you mentioned are too expensive. . For now I live with my parents so everything is jammed in one room. I would do without the speaker system all together, but unfortunately that is not an option. My TV is a Pioneer 101FD, which is technically a monitor, and has no speakers. So when in bed, or if guests are over I need speakers. Since they are an afterthought I don't want to spent thousands more on them. I wish I knew more about soldering. It could not be hard to build a box with 5 speaker inputs/outputs, with a switch to cut them all off. I may actually post in the DIY thread about that. I may check audiogon, and see if they have any cheap 5 channel amps. For the size and price of one, I would be better off buying a second receiver, but again, that is a bit bulky considering my needs.
 
If anyone does game with this, I am still looking for more advice on PRIR. Is MI Casa worth it.
 
I know a few of you use the Realiser for two channel, but most dont. Has anyone tried having it calibrated with anything like Wilson Alexandria/ MBL 101 X-treme/ Focal Grande Utopia EM/ Quad ESL-2905. I am curious if that would make more people use the Realiser for two channel.
 
 

 

[Erik Garci]

Quote:

Can you explain to me how you use 2 Russound AB-2.2 to connect/disconnect 7 speakers.

Each switch can connect/disconnect up to 4 speakers. Basically, the negative wire is always connected directly from the amp to the speaker, and the A/B switch is used to make or break the connection for the positive wire. I posted a detailed explanation on another forum. I will send you the link via PM.
 

 

[jeffreyfranz]

I just came across this old(er) thread for the first time. If that device does everything dsperber felt it did, this could be a game-changer. I'm afraid to ask the cost. I'm going to go back to Page 1 and read up on the Smyth. 

 
Quote:

Please see my new thread here, in the AVS Forum.

Also, Smyth is going to be demonstrating at CanJam 2009 a the LAX Hilton Hotel on May 30-31.

THE UNIT IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE RETAIL PURCHASE AND SHIPPING.

 

 

[Socrates]

SillySally was kind enought to send me his Aix PRIR's last week and I had a chance to try them out at the weekend. My existing personliased PRIR was based on calibrating from two Def Tech powered speakers, changing my orientation to get 5.1 and 7.1 calibrations. My room is 13ft square with an additonal five foot deep bay window. The walls are fairly bare, with a fireplace on one wall, and a large rug covering most of the wooden floor. I was curious to know how a high end calibration from a third party would compare with a personalised calibration in a far from ideal environment.
 
The result? A lot better than I expected. It was terrific to be able to do comparisons on the fly with my existing setup. The main positive difference was I believe due to the effect of the treated room. My Def Tech had much more reverb with the centre channel sounding quite congested and like it was coming out of a tunnel and the overall soundscape was smaller. This wasn't something I had noticed before, it was just that the comparison with the Aix settings higlighted the effect. Dialogue from the centre channel with Aix was very robust, and effects from the surrounds very clear and distinct. There was also a lot of additional detail available that added a lot to the atmospherics of the movies I watched. In short it was as if a blanket had been taken off the "speakers" when I switched from DT setting to Aix. LFE was also punchier and less flabby.  The downside was on the front left and right speakers which did not seem to extend as far back as the centre speaker, obviously a result of the personalisation process.  
 
I didn't really do much of a comparison yet of the three Aix measurement (2 reference  B&W(?) 5.1 and 7.1, plus one 5.1 JBL THX), but first impressions were that for heavy action scenes the JBL seemed more dynamic, and for more measured dialog rich scenes the  reference settings worked best. I also didn't do any stereo comparisons yet. I'm waiting for the new Paul Simon album to make it's way from Amazon USA to Ireland and I'll use that for my first serious listening session. 
 
From previous comments here, and in some of the reviews I've read, people tend to find other peoples measurements either too bright or too dull. Neither of these were apparent with my testing to date. A critical listening session and comparison with stereo music may highlight more issues. I think using somebody elses measurements is a crap shoot, and in this case I've gotten lucky.
 
I was listening using my Audeze LCD-2 driven by a Lovely Cube amp (clone of Lehmann Black Cube). I see some other posters (Tru Brew) are asking about comparisons with the HE-6. I can't give you one, but compared to my old Stax 3030 set up the LCD-2 is a wonderful partner for the Realiser particularly when it comes to bass and impact.
 
My test movies were Indiana Jones - Crystal Skull and Clash of the Titans. It's worth commenting on how a wonderful soundfield can elevate two fairly average movies to a higher level of enjoyment !
 
In conclusion, I'll be using these PRIR's in place of my own calibration for movies and probably music too, but it has made me more determined than ever to get my own high end calibration done, I just need to find a European equivalent of Aix and Smyth's Lorr Kramer . I really wish Smyth Research could come up with a way (ear moulds?) to get high end calibrations for people without them having to go to the actual locations.
 
Finally, many thanks again to SillySally for his generosity in sharing his measurements with me.

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

From previous comments here, and in some of the reviews I've read, people tend to find other peoples measurements either too bright or too dull. Neither of these were apparent with my testing to date. A critical listening session and comparison with stereo music may highlight more issues. I think using somebody elses measurements is a crap shoot, and in this case I've gotten lucky.

True enough.
 
I would describe the results of trying to use someone else's PRIR more like trying to look through someone else's prescription eyeglasses.  It's just not going to be right, although it might be "acceptable" if you squint or turn your head and look through the lens off-center at an angle or something like that.  Try to borrow someone's glasses who has astigmatism, and you'll really go crazy.  Borrowing someone's PRIR is, as you say, a crap shoot, and the auditory results could really be like the astigmatism analogy for eyes... with your brain "hearing" sound off-center, off-horizontal, off-vertical, etc.  Or, maybe not too bad.
 
It's really remarkable how much physiology is apparently involved in how we hear... more so than could be accomplished by just sending a mold of our ear canal to a "factory" that would then insert microphones and generate PRIR results for a given listening environment.  It's also our heads and skull, body, etc., all of which apparently participates in some way with how our brain processes sound waves and enables us to "hear".
 
Anyway, there really can be no substitute for getting your own eyes measured for your own prescription eyeglasses, nor for getting your own ears/head measured with microphones to have a precise PRIR produced for YOU and YOU ALONE.  That's the right way to do it.  And part two, of course, is to be lucky enough to have access to a wonderful listening environment to "capture", and a Lorr Kramer who knows exactly how to set things up for optimal measurement.

 

[sillysally]

 
Quote:

SillySally was kind enought to send me his Aix PRIR's last week and I had a chance to try them out at the weekend. My existing personliased PRIR was based on calibrating from two Def Tech powered speakers, changing my orientation to get 5.1 and 7.1 calibrations. My room is 13ft square with an additonal five foot deep bay window. The walls are fairly bare, with a fireplace on one wall, and a large rug covering most of the wooden floor. I was curious to know how a high end calibration from a third party would compare with a personalised calibration in a far from ideal environment.
 
The result? A lot better than I expected. It was terrific to be able to do comparisons on the fly with my existing setup. The main positive difference was I believe due to the effect of the treated room. My Def Tech had much more reverb with the centre channel sounding quite congested and like it was coming out of a tunnel and the overall soundscape was smaller. This wasn't something I had noticed before, it was just that the comparison with the Aix settings higlighted the effect. Dialogue from the centre channel with Aix was very robust, and effects from the surrounds very clear and distinct. There was also a lot of additional detail available that added a lot to the atmospherics of the movies I watched. In short it was as if a blanket had been taken off the "speakers" when I switched from DT setting to Aix. LFE was also punchier and less flabby.  The downside was on the front left and right speakers which did not seem to extend as far back as the centre speaker, obviously a result of the personalisation process.  
 
 
Quote:ss

I to had the re-verb affect when I compared my 7.1 speaker system PRIR to my AIX PRIR's, along with everything you are saying.

 
 
I didn't really do much of a comparison yet of the three Aix measurement (2 reference  B&W(?) 5.1 and 7.1, plus one 5.1 JBL THX), but first impressions were that for heavy action scenes the JBL seemed more dynamic, and for more measured dialog rich scenes the  reference settings worked best. I also didn't do any stereo comparisons yet. I'm waiting for the new Paul Simon album to make it's way from Amazon USA to Ireland and I'll use that for my first serious listening session. 
 
 
Quote:ss

My impression of the THX is the same as yours, the THX PRIR is for movies the LF, C and RF are all behind the huge drop down screen at AIX then there are two sets of JBL speakers on each of the side walls. Because of these AIX PRIR's being made for me the THX PRIR is pretty dialog rich.
Because the THX sound system is controlled in part by THX software, it almost seems that for the THX system has a +15 boost to the SW. As were there is a +10 SW Boost to the B/W sound systems.

 
 
From previous comments here, and in some of the reviews I've read, people tend to find other peoples measurements either too bright or too dull. Neither of these were apparent with my testing to date. A critical listening session and comparison with stereo music may highlight more issues. I think using somebody elses measurements is a crap shoot, and in this case I've gotten lucky.
 
I was listening using my Audeze LCD-2 driven by a Lovely Cube amp (clone of Lehmann Black Cube). I see some other posters (Tru Brew) are asking about comparisons with the HE-6. I can't give you one, but compared to my old Stax 3030 set up the LCD-2 is a wonderful partner for the Realiser particularly when it comes to bass and impact.
 
My test movies were Indiana Jones - Crystal Skull and Clash of the Titans. It's worth commenting on how a wonderful soundfield can elevate two fairly average movies to a higher level of enjoyment !
 
 
Quote:ss

Try the new Tron Legacy Blu Ray movie with your 7.1 B/W PRIR.

 
 
In conclusion, I'll be using these PRIR's in place of my own calibration for movies and probably music too, but it has made me more determined than ever to get my own high end calibration done, I just need to find a European equivalent of Aix and Smyth's Lorr Kramer . I really wish Smyth Research could come up with a way (ear moulds?) to get high end calibrations for people without them having to go to the actual locations.
 
Finally, many thanks again to SillySally for his generosity in sharing his measurements with me.
 
 
Quote:ss

It is my pleasure to share, thank you for your comments.

 

 

 

[Socrates]

SS, I have Tron Legacy on order, it should sound incredible.
 
Dsperber, in relation to moulds, I reckon you would need a full ear mould and not just the ear canal, as the personalisation also relates to the sound bouncing off the various outer parts of your ear on the way to the canal. After that I think the main variable is the size of your skull and the distance that would be between the microphones. Here, any calibrator would probably  have to use an average male/female head size. I think this should get you most of the way to an accurate measurement. It won't be 100% maybe 95%,  but it would be fun if Smyth could send the molds around the world to get measurements from great systems and sound environments, something we could never do as individuals. They could charge a set fee for each file they pass on to their customers. It would be great to be able to compare different systems on the fly. This is just a pipe dream I have, unless Smyth actively pursue this !!
 
 

 

[davidhunternyc]

O.K., I live in NYC and my entire living space is 8' X 12', total! I do not have room for speakers. What I do have room for is a headphone system. How can I possibly own an Smyth Realiser if I don't have speakers and the presets on the Realiser are less than ideal? Better yet, what about shrinking down the Realiser to fit within the JH-3A from Jerry Harvey? Then I would have no space issues at all and I would still be able to listen to music as if I were in a concert hall.