[travis-bickle]

can you guys plz comment on how the reproduction of a PRIR between different headphones and amps and the combination of them differ? I hope to make a major leap upgrading from my beyerdynamic dt-911. But with a Sennheiser HD800 you should reach a level of quality which is able to fully handle the PRIR and give all the characteristics of it.
 
So for example @ "sillysally" 
 
you wrote you prefer your new HifiMan HE-6 compared to Sennheiser HD-800. So in which terms the sound of that PRIR gets better at THAT level of quality? For my understanding they should both fully give all of the characteristics of the PRIR. So whats the difference?
 
thx

 

[sillysally]

 
Quote:

can you guys plz comment on how the reproduction of a PRIR between different headphones and amps and the combination of them differ? I hope to make a major leap upgrading from my beyerdynamic dt-911. But with a Sennheiser HD800 you should reach a level of quality which is able to fully handle the PRIR and give all the characteristics of it.
 
So for example @ "sillysally" 
 
you wrote you prefer your new HifiMan HE-6 compared to Sennheiser HD-800. So in which terms the sound of that PRIR gets better at THAT level of quality? For my understanding they should both fully give all of the characteristics of the PRIR. So whats the difference?
 
thx

There is no doubt in my mind that the better the head gear you use the better the your PRIR's will sound, of-course that's saying your PRIR is from a place like AIX.
 
The HE6 brings out a better speaker placement, better duplication of the speakers that where used for the PRIR's, better cross-over, more depth, ect. The HE6 is simply a more refined sound than the HD800's.
 
One word of caution with the HE6, that is the HE6 is a very hard headphone to drive so you need a very powerful head amp or the right speaker amp.
 
As I have said before edwood is the one that pointed this out to me last July, unfortunately edwood seems to be missing so I am passing on his advice. He also suggested using a better DAC between my Realiser and my head amp by running a optical cable out from the Realiser to the DAC, there by canceling the D/A conversion of the Realiser and having the DAC do that.
Anyway I have a Audio-GD DAC19 DSP1v5 coming soon so I will report my findings on using that DAC in my chain.
 
Also I should add that what I am doing is not necessary, you still will get a great sound with just the package SVS Realiser and Stax 202. I am just taking the Realiser to its max potential.

 

[bobski32]

So Sillysally, please correct me if I'm wrong. The Realiser takes an analog input, then adds it's magic to the signal after converting it to digital. Then once it's done, converts the signal back to analog by using it's own DAC, or ....you can use a separat DAC to do that out the optical?  

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

So Sillysally, please correct me if I'm wrong. The Realiser takes an analog input, then adds it's magic to the signal after converting it to digital. Then once it's done, converts the signal back to analog by using it's own DAC, or ....you can use a separate DAC to do that out the optical?  

Correct.  Input analog is 8-channel.  Output analog (from built-in DAC, post-processing by SVS logic) is 2-channel for headphones.  Optical output is the digital version of the SVS logic processing to produce the 2-channel output, pre-DAC.

 

[bobski32]

Correct.  Input analog is 8-channel.  Output analog (from built-in DAC, post-processing by SVS logic) is 2-channel for headphones.  Optical output is the digital version of the SVS logic processing to produce the 2-channel output, pre-DAC.

Sweet, thanks for clearing that up. I plan on getting a dac1 for my laptop, maybe I'll try it out for the Realiser to see if it makes any difference.  

 

[Germs]

Hi,
 
When I use the Stax on the Realiser, I have to  set the volumes quite high.
My pre-amp at 75%, the Realiser at -11dB and the Stax volume knob at  3 o'clock
When I use my Beyerdynamic DT770, I don't need to do to that, just my pre-amp to 65%.
 
Is that normal?
 
Anyway, the beginning of the year is going to be great. I already orderer a Hifiman HE-6 and a Decware Zen Mini Tori amp.
In 3 weeks I will do my PRIRs at AIX and Mi Casa.
And I am already looking for the JHAudio combo JH-16 Pro + JH-3A. Hopefully, if the reviews are confirming it is as good it is supposed to be, I will buy one.
Not so great for my wallet, alas.

 

[bmoura]

 
Quote:

Hi,
 
When I use the Stax on the Realiser, I have to  set the volumes quite high.
My pre-amp at 75%, the Realiser at -11dB and the Stax volume knob at  3 o'clock
When I use my Beyerdynamic DT770, I don't need to do to that, just my pre-amp to 65%.
 
Is that normal?
 
Anyway, the beginning of the year is going to be great. I already ordered a Hifiman HE-6 and a Decware Zen Mini Tori amp.
In 3 weeks I will do my PRIRs at AIX and Mi Casa.
And I am already looking for the JHAudio combo JH-16 Pro + JH-3A. Hopefully, if the reviews are confirming it is as good it is supposed to be, I will buy one.
Not so great for my wallet, alas.

You're going for the HE-6, the amp and the JH-3A?  Wow, that's all in with the Realiser !

 

[maverickronin]

As someone who enjoys using the HRTF built into ffdshow when watching movies I was quite interested in the realiser when I found out about it.  After looking over their website and reading this whole thread there's a question I haven't seen an answer to.
 
Why on earth would you want to go to the trouble of emulating the acoustics of an entire room?  Rooms are what is wrong with speakers in the first place.  Why doesn't it just take its measurements and then emulate point sources on an infinite plane?  Why does it do its best to add all that garbage back in?  Room acoustics are one problem that headphones eliminate almost completely, and in the process of adding the real out-of-head imaging that headphones lack, this adds it back in again.
 
I find it rather confusing.

 

[dsperber]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Why on earth would you want to go to the trouble of emulating the acoustics of an entire room?

Because that is precisely the purpose of the product... to DUPLICATE the listening environment it is calibrated in.  That measurement gets stored digitally as a PRIR file, and you can then use the PRIR subsequently to "play back" anything through it and your headphones.  Your subsequent listening experience through that PRIR will, hopefully, DUPLICATE the listening environment (i.e. the room, speakers, electronics, your ears, and anything else relevant) of that room.
 
Rinse and repeat multiple times, and you now have a "library" of PRIR's (i.e. unique and different listening experiences).  Like sonic photographs, to be used to "re-live" the listening experience of that room anytime you want to.
 
That's what the product is, to facilitate a sonic photograph for your ears... usable in reverse  It is NOT to "optimize" sound of everything via headphones, in which case it's one-and-only configuration might just as well just be burned into a PROM and that's it.
 
It's like going to a concert with binaural microphones in your ears, making a recording, and then going home to listen to it.  You're purpose is to relive the original concert experience, as best you can.  You will probably end up with a whole collection of such concert recordings in your collection of concert recordings.  The Realiser technology is like that, sort of, but much better implemented.  Not only does it work better, but you can use it "in reverse", to play back anything through its PRIR... which hopefully duplicates how that "anything" would sound if actually played for real in that room over its real speakers and electronics... to your ears.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Because that is precisely the purpose of the product... to DUPLICATE the listening environment it is calibrated in.

I understand that's what its supposed to do.  I don't get why you'd want to do that.  I understand emulating the placement of speakers, to give real out-of-head imaging.  I don't understand why you would want to emulate the imperfections of the rest of the system.
 
That part of it is sort of like running a flac through a filter to emulate an mp3.  I know its not a fair analogy, but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

 

[travis-bickle]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Because that is precisely the purpose of the product... to DUPLICATE the listening environment it is calibrated in.

I understand that's what its supposed to do.  I don't get why you'd want to do that.  I understand emulating the placement of speakers, to give real out-of-head imaging.  I don't understand why you would want to emulate the imperfections of the rest of the system.
 
That part of it is sort of like running a flac through a filter to emulate an mp3.  I know its not a fair analogy, but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

you just have to consider that the main purpose for the device is to emulate a very good known listening environment of audio professionals. they dont want to have a "perfect" emulation without electronics or room acoustic imperfections, but just beeing able to walk away with their every day working space.

 

[maverickronin]

But couldn't you just use that perfect emulation as your everyday work space?  I'm not really an audio professional but wouldn't that work fine if the Realiser is really as good as its supposed to be?
 
I just hope their algorithms get licensed and put in something cheaper that doesn't have the extra functionality that I don't need.  I don't want to copy a room.  I just want to hear good surround sound over my headphones.

 

[travis-bickle]

Quote:

But couldn't you just use that perfect emulation as your everyday work space?  I'm not really an audio professional but wouldn't that work fine if the Realiser is really as good as its supposed to be?
 
I just hope their algorithms get licensed and put in something cheaper that doesn't have the extra functionality that I don't need.  I don't want to copy a room.  I just want to hear good surround sound over my headphones.

first of all like mentioned several times before: its just working because of personalisation
so how do you imagine perfect emulation? for spacial sound theres has to be a space. besides the possibilty of acoustically dead rooms, which sounds terrible to me, you will ever have "imperfections" in terms of acoustic. but there are standards with precise specifications for lets say reverberation as an example. so there are studios or lets call them listening environments who handle this things with a high grade of costs. And thats the point with the realiser. You are able to capture it and take it with you. dont get me wrong. from my current point of view the device is not perfect and yes it is very expensive. it will always be a different experience than hearing to actual speakers. but for me i think with upgrading to high-end headphones, a good amp (would be glad if someone can suggest a good partner around 300-600$ for the beyerdynamic t1) and some sort of compensation for the missing tactiles with the help of a tactile transducer i hope there is a chance to reach a level of performance which i am used to with speakers and that gives me a gooseflesh. but the main reason i do this for is that i live in an appartement and cant watch movies at volumes i like. its a very big advantage beeing able to listen to something without disturbing someone. not only you are free of bounderies but you are some sort of more emerged. i will update (with good or bad news) when i robbed enough banks to realise the full realiser potential

 

[maverickronin]

I'm in the same boat with you in the 'phones vs speakers debate.  I'd prefer speakers, but they bother other people so I have to go with 'phones, and I'm also fully behind the idea of HRTFs and DSPs to make headphones sound more like speakers.  I'm not trying to bash the Realiser, I just don't understand why it does all the things that it does.  Is emulating an entire room that important to some professional field?  If so, why?
 
I understand that it works so well because its customized to your ears, but that customization doesn't need to extend to the whole room.  Assuming you do the calibration in any half decent room it should be simple for something that sophisticated to ignore the room acoustics and just get a personal HRTF.  After that you could easily mix and match the HRTF with the acoustics from any room, real or virtual.

 

[davidhunternyc]

O.K. guys. I'm sure many of you having being reading about the DSP in the, yet to be released, JH-3A. Just imagine if the people at Smyth worked together with Jerry Harvey to integrate various "listening rooms" inside the JH-3A. This would, albeit, be a pared down version of the Realiser but it would mark the first step towards getting the sound from portable headphones out of our heads and into real space. This is 2011. By now, headphone listening should reproduce real space, and... um...cars should fly.