Little Dot MK8SE / MK6 Super Mods (All verified mods are on first page)
Jun 15, 2016 at 5:04 PM Post #1,771 of 4,154
Sonic I haven't touch the amp. I was just enjoying the music. I know that what is happening is strange. Could that be that the faulty tube charged some capacitors or could done temporary damage. I am still listening to the music as nothing has happend (with 6C8G and adapters). 
 
Jun 15, 2016 at 5:09 PM Post #1,772 of 4,154
  Sonic I haven't touch the amp. I was just enjoying the music. I know that what is happening is strange. Could that be that the faulty tube charged some capacitors or could done temporary damage. I am still listening to the music as nothing has happend (with 6C8G and adapters). 

Don't know what happened here to be honest. Good thing it's working fine again! I wouldn't use the tubes that first caused the problem though.
 
Jun 15, 2016 at 6:25 PM Post #1,774 of 4,154
The symptoms you posted also can describe condition of a tube starting to fail..

I had a 6sn7 start to give static noise and I knew it was ready to go
 
Jun 16, 2016 at 11:35 AM Post #1,775 of 4,154
Mogos' problem sounds very much like a contact problem as pointed out already. There's no socket expensive enough (high price is no guarantee of high quality) to not be susceptible to contact problems, I've found that out many times.

Tube failure by heater - cathode (partial) short will also cause pops and hiss.

The problem could also be inside the adapter; a partial or near-short.
 
Jun 16, 2016 at 12:01 PM Post #1,776 of 4,154
It looks like all the strange problems are connected with the tubes. One RCA tube is totaly dead. One National Union has only one rod glowing and one Ken-Rad does not show any visiual signs of failure but after some time starts poping, ckracling. I have another pair of National Union and they are working ok. For awile I thought it is the adapter causing problems. But changing positions and lamps shows that with the adapters everything is ok. I am using them now for already few hours with another pair of Ken-Rads and everything is ok. So adapters and contacts can be exculded from suspicion. I thought it may be some shortage in current supply from the amp. For shure with the stock solution there is limited supply of current. So Maxx good news that you are preparing a remedy for it.
 
Jun 16, 2016 at 12:18 PM Post #1,777 of 4,154
  It looks like all the strange problems are connected with the tubes. One RCA tube is totaly dead. One National Union has only one rod glowing and one Ken-Rad does not show any visiual signs of failure but after some time starts poping, ckracling. I have another pair of National Union and they are working ok. For awile I thought it is the adapter causing problems. But changing positions and lamps shows that with the adapters everything is ok. I am using them now for already few hours with another pair of Ken-Rads and everything is ok. So adapters and contacts can be exculded from suspicion. I thought it may be some shortage in current supply from the amp. For shure with the stock solution there is limited supply of current. So Maxx good news that you are preparing a remedy for it.


Looks like you've had some problems with NOS tubes I'm assuming you're getting, always a problem. Fortunately I've largely escaped this problem, I don't know if you are getting tubes advertised with good test results, although that does not guarantee a good tube.
 
Jun 16, 2016 at 2:50 PM Post #1,778 of 4,154
Yes, you alredy know that I had been prejudiced to NOS tubes. And it seams I had correct feelings. Buying a NOS tubes is a lottery 
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. But you know what. It is worth to risk!!. 
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 I will tray to replace the out of order tubes (it shall be no problem). And for now I have ednded up with three pairs of NOS tubes changing the amp in exceptional instrument. I am still wating for the 2C22/7193 adapter and the 7193 Ken-Rads. I hope the amp will provide sufficient current to run the setup. I am very curious of the sonic effect of the setup.
 
Jun 16, 2016 at 7:09 PM Post #1,779 of 4,154
I thought it may be some shortage in current supply from the amp. For shure with the stock solution there is limited supply of current. So Maxx good news that you are preparing a remedy for it.

The driver PSU, is separate from the heater current demands,
and that comes straight off the transformers in AC,
So there is no worries about having enough power for the driver tubes,
as the transformers have the power,
as SonicTrance posted the schematic LittleDot gave him.

Also,
I was cautious and modified driver PSU resistors to only get an extra 10v out of it.

A far cry from a real modification like earlier suggestions.

Anyways, I realize what we are doing is kind of late to the party,
As I been reading threads 5-10years ago and it's all been tried before with tube choices.

Also,
The 2c22 tube is a good idea.
Yet even that not the final say as there is even higher.
Looks like the future seems to say DHT is way to go..
Dam, this really doesn't end..
 
Jun 17, 2016 at 10:20 AM Post #1,781 of 4,154
An ok tube with the best circuit design will every time beat the best of the best tubes with mediocre circuit designs.

That is welcome news.

Also I have come to conclusion that the driver stage on this amp was limiting performance and holding back the power tube stage .

Also, side note:
I really really really do not like the usage of super tiny zener diodes in the power stage PSU...

The resulting narrow parameters from a small watt zener (and accompanying tiny resistor) ,
*edit*
is not conducive to longterm reliability. .

I edit long winded post.
 
Jun 17, 2016 at 7:50 PM Post #1,782 of 4,154
Not sure if this is OK to post but I found this very good research report on amplifier design and if possible anyone could post some opinions about it:

http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php

One of my future plans is to look into these points about the amp global NFB:

Why is it there in this amp.
How much is being used percentage wise.
Whether it is necessary
What parameters can be adjusted if possible to eliminate or minimize the need for it at all.
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 2:19 AM Post #1,783 of 4,154
You've got your Quest, Sir Galaad !  Go find the Truth !
 
 

 
Jun 19, 2016 at 2:51 AM Post #1,784 of 4,154
An ok tube with the best circuit design will every time beat the best of the best tubes with mediocre circuit designs.

 
 
OK, you've got your boundaries here, let's say a 3000$ for a "pair of Output Transformers" Vs 3000$ for a "pair of 300B" (just an exemple).
 
I'm pretty convinced that the real difficulty is to find the right balance between the "circuit design", the associated costs and the final sound quality.
We have seen so many start-up companies selling "over the top" audio stuff (with "over the top" prices) that didn't live very long. 
 
And I suppose we could have a 200 pages of discussion of what is the "best circuit design" and still not agree (I mean, not "me" personnaly, I don't have this expertise... but some "enlightened" dudes).
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 3:54 AM Post #1,785 of 4,154
Sorry for the late answer, i have had a busy personal/professional life these last weeks. It will be more calm during summer, I hope. 
 
 
Quote:
However, adding C to the end of an RCRCRC or whatever it is, is not going to lower the total R along the way at all.

If your end game caps (closest to the audio circuit) can deliver very fast, the current that resupplies the caps must go thru that earlier system with it's impedances and parasitic properties (slower caps).

 
The overall idea is not to lower the total R, but to "decouple" as much as possible the Signal loop (Energy provider > Tube > Headphone) from the PSU.
 
The PSU is there only to refill the Decoupling Banks. As long as the PSU can provide more energy than what is used in the Signal loop (which is the case obviously), the Energy Balance of the cap banks between what goes in and what goes out is OK.
 
 
There's no clear scientific consensus on this, but a largish minority of DIY guys think that parallel caps is a bad idea. I'm somewhat in this camp as well.

The resoning goes, that in the cap system you create overlapping areas, and when they discharge, the smaller cap has a phase error in discharging.

Exactly the same as in a speker crossover. The overlapping areas are problematic. Some people prefer full range speakers despite them having problems in high treble and low bass. Also many people cite the lack of a crossover system as a big benefit in using headphones.

Did you try out and compare single cap and multicap solutions and come to find you prefer this system?

My opinion on this matter is undecided, leaning strongly in favour of single caps where possible.

 
Yes I have tried a lot of different setups :
Setup 1 :no caps : original
Setup 2 : 1 cap : 33µF Clarity Caps
Setup 3 :2 caps : same as above + 0.33µF RIFA PME271
Setup 4 :3 caps : same as above + 10nF polystyrene (not good at all ... maybe not enough burning)
Setup 5 :3 caps : 0.15µF FKP1 + 4.7µF MKP10 + 100µF TPC
Setup 6 :4 caps : my current setup (with the White Monster)
 
And yes, I have heard significant changes between each of those setups, not all were good. The current setup (the 3 and 4 caps) is the one which provided the more benefits by a large margin.
 
 
I have been trying to see if a "one cap" could be enough too. It would have make my life much easier. But I could not reconciliate the few parameters I wanted to play with in a single cap.
I wanted :
- fast transient
- low impedance
- high energy
- form factor that could fit the amp and allow to put the bank as close as possible to the tubes (not that easy)
- not a bank breaker
 
The problem I had with the "single cap" is that it could not satisfy all the criterais at the same time.
You can't have a low impedance with a small cap, especially on the audio freq. band due to the "Zc = 1 / jwC" part of the impedance law. 
You can't have a fast transient on a very large cap which will most probably be a Lytic
 
A middle ground between those could have been some large industrial FKP "laser pulse" caps, but they are incredibly hard to find (B2B most exclusively) and expensive.
And "large" means that you'll have to put then some inches away from your tubes, adding some inductance in the process and killing your "high freq response". 
And even then, you can't expect to have the almost infinite transient of a silver/mica and the low impedance at 100Hz ...
 
So, maybe the "phase error" you're talking about can have an sonic impact, I honestly don't have a clue. If this is an area for improvements (better values scale ?), I'm really open to suggestions/discussion. 
 
But I suppose this is always a mater of cost/benefit. I'll have my transient and my low impedance at the cost of some phase error and maybe oscillations too.
But overall, when I listen to it, it's a clear improvement for me.
I don't say it's final or it's the best way, just saying that in this context it works, it's easy to implement (sort of) and it's cheap. 
 

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