[Maxx134]

 
What are those coupling caps? Did they come stock with your amp?

Probably didn't need all those pics but better safe than sorry!

No they're Ansars recommended to me by my tech man when I couldn't fit the Audyns I bought because of their size. The idea was to see if I could tell the difference with a cap of a higher capacitance. I since bought the S/O Mundorfs to put in in their place before the mods thread started. He actually put in some posts to the PCB so that there would be no need to remove it again for changing the caps, some hope now that the main mods are about to be done!!!!

BTW Maxx don't forget the HE-500's at 38 ohms, I see you have several cans at around that figure anyway.

And would you say that low impedance cans respond less well to amplification than high impedance ones?

Hello, I didn't know that your copper caps were only 22uf, so although you input may not gp down to 5hz (lol) .22 should stilll get you in the 20hz region.
Main thing is that you will have a great signature, as I verified when I had the copper type cap as main coupling, and the Mundorf as WCF.

Now don't get carried away, as your board is one of the better made boards before they cut costs,
because your small installed resistors are great quality Dale types.

So all your parts are excellent.
I would also almost insist on Cardas Solder.
It will save you headaches.

Also listen to MisterX suggestion with the solid wire, by installing on board first, and soldering onto plugs last.

I WROTE inside my amp with a black marker, where every wire goes.

As for your question, impedance of headphone will be closely matched with the amps output circuit,
So the common story of headphones impedance matching issues with amplifiers,
Will be irrelevant here.


This next mod will be an addition of resistors to the Anode/Plate resistors.

Yet you will not have to pull board out,
As the design of this board places the Anode/Plate resistors on the component side.

 

[Mogos]

  Mogos, if you want clear and detailed then TS998 as MisterX suggested for about $150 each, expensive! Then there's Bendix 6080WB superbly clear, detailed and musical but not harsh. I had these for many years and only changed because I prefer a warmer sound hence the RCA 6AS7G's. Bendixes are now approaching 5998 prices, they were just starting to get expensive when I got mine. Some on the other LD Mkvi/mk8 thread mentioned the Svetlana Winged C as being a very detailed power tube which I haven't tried.
 
Pretty much all power tubes are getting expensive!
 
I can't really think of any live sounding driver tubes, I prefer warm sound. The only ones that spring to mind are Raytheon 6SN7's which are good, and not expensive last time I looked. Failing that you could try mixing some RCA 6AS7G's with Psvane driver tubes which should give a very detailed dynamic sound, but of course are not NOS tubes.
 
Only other thing I can think of change your DAC for a live sounding one, such as the Chord Hugo, or M-DAC, yet more expense and audiophillionervosa I'm afraid

Thank you baron for info. What I have been writing about my sound preferences may sugest that I am not having the sound signature I am seeking for. But that is far from reality. I do have rigth now live like sound signature (Telefunken 6080 Diamond series mached, balaced halves + russian 1596). All what I am doing right now is just the last polish up going beyond my imagination, perfecting alredy perfect e.t.c.
I will seek for available tubes in resonable price. There is no presure. Now lets wait for the next mod and do an application of it afterwards.
Regarding the capacitors. There is in earlier posts info/ tip from Maxx about the capacitors speed saying that higher the nominal voltage the faster capacitor responce. Beeing made of silver also should give the speed to the capacitor.

 

[baronbeehive]

b

Hello, I didn't know that your copper caps were only 22uf, so although you input may not gp down to 5hz (lol) .22 should stilll get you in the 20hz region.
Main thing is that you will have a great signature, as I verified when I had the copper type cap as main coupling, and the Mundorf as WCF.

Now don't get carried away, as your board is one of the better made boards before they cut costs,
because your small installed resistors are great quality Dale types.

So all your parts are excellent.
I would also almost insist on Cardas Solder.
It will save you headaches.

Also listen to MisterX suggestion with the solid wire, by installing on board first, and soldering onto plugs last.

I WROTE inside my amp with a black marker, where every wire goes.

As for your question, impedance of headphone will be closely matched with the amps output circuit,
So the common story of headphones impedance matching issues with amplifiers,
Will be irrelevant here.


This next mod will be an addition of resistors to the Anode/Plate resistors.

Yet you will not have to pull board out,
As the design of this board places the Anode/Plate resistors on the component side.

 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Re: the caps I may yet put the .33 Mundorf SO cap as coupling ......but then I've lost the speed of silver in the WCF position. Anyway after a lifetime of headphone use I would think that hearing 20hz would be pretty good.

.
 
I will be using Cardas solder thanks Maxx, anything that makes it that much easier!
 
Quote:

 
Thank you baron for info. What I have been writing about my sound preferences may sugest that I am not having the sound signature I am seeking for. But that is far from reality. I do have rigth now live like sound signature (Telefunken 6080 Diamond series mached, balaced halves + russian 1596). All what I am doing right now is just the last polish up going beyond my imagination, perfecting alredy perfect e.t.c.
I will seek for available tubes in resonable price. There is no presure. Now lets wait for the next mod and do an application of it afterwards.
Regarding the capacitors. There is in earlier posts info/ tip from Maxx about the capacitors speed saying that higher the nominal voltage the faster capacitor responce. Beeing made of silver also should give the speed to the capacitor.

 
When I said previously that I didn't like Telefunken, that doesn't mean they aren't any good. For you they are probably right because they give that very true sound without any colouration, which I think you prefer. So regarding the NOS tubes what I suggest you could do now is that you keep the Telefunkens which I assume are NOS, or at least not new issue, and you could pick up a pair of Raytheon 6SN7GT's such as these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAYTHEON-6SN7GTB-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-BLACK-PLATE-SIDE-GETR-TEST-NOS-VINTAGE-1956-/331762388448?hash=item4d3e944de0:g:an8AAOSwiLdWBvL8&rmvSB=true
only $19.95, fixed price, just to get a feel of NOS tube and if you like them you can go into it more later I leave it entirely up to you.

 

[baronbeehive]

SMLD MODS:
 
Stage 2 - Remove PCB
 
Woooooo............the board's out. Just half an hours heaving did it 

.I was expecting much worse!

 

[Redge78]

  SMLD MODS:
 
Stage 2 - Remove PCB
 
Woooooo............the board's out. Just half an hours heaving did it 

.I was expecting much worse!

As I have understood things, the challenge is not to take it out, but to put it back without breaking anything ... no pressure ... at all  

 
 

 
Anyway after a lifetime of headphone use I would think that hearing 20hz would be pretty good.

.

Jez, I'd like to hear that 20Hz as well, but at the present time, this is way out of reach of my MK8/HD800.
I have some few dedicated tracks just to test that, if someone is interested.

 

[baronbeehive]

  As I have understood things, the challenge is not to take it out, but to put it back without breaking anything ... no pressure ... at all  

 
............

 Damn and blast..... thanks very much

.
 

.............
 
Jez, I'd like to hear that 20Hz as well, but at the present time, this is way out of reach of my MK8/HD800.
I have some few dedicated tracks just to test that, if someone is interested.

 
I would be very interested in that! That's one of the reasons to not exceed the 1uF value for coupling caps because it wouldn't be possible to hear below 20hz.........apart from the fact that you could introduce rather unpleasant instability into the amp at those levels. I have heard that it's possible to hear below 20hz which I doubt very much, I suspect its rather like people saying they can hear compression effects in mp3's compared to say flac files. You may be aware of the absence of something but could probably not tell what it was exactly! I've tried comparing high res, (24 bit, 2116kbps), and standard res, (16 bit, 1411kbps), apple lossless files and got a majority right in a blind test but when I repeated this I got them practically all wrong. I still think I could tell but I haven't repeated it since!
 
I suspect I'm going to have to watch where I put those rifa's now and I don't expect any of you guys is going to tell me where to put them, you want to see me suffer

.

 

[Mogos]

   Damn and blast..... thanks very much

.
 
 
I would be very interested in that! That's one of the reasons to not exceed the 1uF value for coupling caps because it wouldn't be possible to hear below 20hz.........apart from the fact that you could introduce rather unpleasant instability into the amp at those levels. I have heard that it's possible to hear below 20hz which I doubt very much, I suspect its rather like people saying they can hear compression effects in mp3's compared to say flac files. You may be aware of the absence of something but could probably not tell what it was exactly! I've tried comparing high res, (24 bit, 2116kbps), and standard res, (16 bit, 1411kbps), apple lossless files and got a majority right in a blind test but when I repeated this I got them practically all wrong. I still think I could tell but I haven't repeated it since!
 
I suspect I'm going to have to watch where I put those rifa's now and I don't expect any of you guys is going to tell me where to put them, you want to see me suffer

.

Do you need some photos? I can send you what I have done.

 

[Redge78]

   
I would be very interested in that! That's one of the reasons to not exceed the 1uF value for coupling caps because it wouldn't be possible to hear below 20hz.........apart from the fact that you could introduce rather unpleasant instability into the amp at those levels. I have heard that it's possible to hear below 20hz which I doubt very much, I suspect its rather like people saying they can hear compression effects in mp3's compared to say flac files. You may be aware of the absence of something but could probably not tell what it was exactly! I've tried comparing high res, (24 bit, 2116kbps), and standard res, (16 bit, 1411kbps), apple lossless files and got a majority right in a blind test but when I repeated this I got them practically all wrong. I still think I could tell but I haven't repeated it since!
 
I suspect I'm going to have to watch where I put those rifa's now and I don't expect any of you guys is going to tell me where to put them, you want to see me suffer

.

1 - Enduring pain and suffering with a steady composure will make you a better man ... so they say.
 
2 - It's possible to ear below 20Hz, even if "naturally" there is very few occasion to have these produced. 32" Great organs can produce 16.5Hz, and the 64" ones can produce 8.25Hz but that's about all I know.
And "electronic music" can produce whatever they want (but the "more commercial" ones will be listened through Apple earbuds, which will severelly limit the utility to introduce that kind of ultra-low frequencies in their tracks). 
 
 
3 - The tracks (both "electronica")
 
Covenant > In transit > Intro (from start to 2:00). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruLq9h-fOg
In this track, the 20Hz is "certified present" even if you can't hear it. When you'll ear the track, you'll find it "self-explainatory"
 
Isan > Salle d'Isan > Day & Later (didn't find it on YT - PM me if you can't find it)
This one is a bitch, with a bass line you should be able to follow all the time, and some octaves below the same line (that is the real challenge to hear), with inter-modulations to boot.

 

[SonicTrance]

 

  As I have understood things, the challenge is not to take it out, but to put it back without breaking anything ... no pressure ... at all  

 
............

 Damn and blast..... thanks very much

.
 

.............
 
Jez, I'd like to hear that 20Hz as well, but at the present time, this is way out of reach of my MK8/HD800.
I have some few dedicated tracks just to test that, if someone is interested.

 
I would be very interested in that! That's one of the reasons to not exceed the 1uF value for coupling caps because it wouldn't be possible to hear below 20hz.........apart from the fact that you could introduce rather unpleasant instability into the amp at those levels. I have heard that it's possible to hear below 20hz which I doubt very much, I suspect its rather like people saying they can hear compression effects in mp3's compared to say flac files. You may be aware of the absence of something but could probably not tell what it was exactly! I've tried comparing high res, (24 bit, 2116kbps), and standard res, (16 bit, 1411kbps), apple lossless files and got a majority right in a blind test but when I repeated this I got them practically all wrong. I still think I could tell but I haven't repeated it since!
 
I suspect I'm going to have to watch where I put those rifa's now and I don't expect any of you guys is going to tell me where to put them, you want to see me suffer

.

Just look at my pics and you'll see where I put mine. Remember that they need to sit flush against the board (no solder points in between). They are a little taller than the PCB standoffs so you can use washers if you want, otherwise you need to be careful not to over tighten the screws when you put it back together.

 

[baronbeehive]

 
Do you need some photos? I can send you what I have done.

 
Thanks, I will PM you when I'm at that stage. I was wondering whether to put those rifa's on top like Maxx after what you guys said about the difficulty with the board. Failing that I will look very carefully at their position with regard to the posts.
 
I just checked out those HE1000's, wow

.
 

  1 - Enduring pain and suffering with a steady composure will make you a better man ... so they say.
 
2 - It's possible to ear below 20Hz, even if "naturally" there is very few occasion to have these produced. 32" Great organs can produce 16.5Hz, and the 64" ones can produce 8.25Hz but that's about all I know.
And "electronic music" can produce whatever they want (but the "more commercial" ones will be listened through Apple earbuds, which will severelly limit the utility to introduce that kind of ultra-low frequencies in their tracks).
 
 
3 - The tracks (both "electronica")
 
Covenant > In transit > Intro (from start to 2:00). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruLq9h-fOg
In this track, the 20Hz is "certified present" even if you can't hear it. When you'll ear the track, you'll find it "self-explainatory"
 
Isan > Salle d'Isan > Day & Later (didn't find it on YT - PM me if you can't find it)
This one is a bitch, with a bass line you should be able to follow all the time, and some octaves below the same line (that is the real challenge to hear), with inter-modulations to boot.

 
Thanks Redge I will try those out. That organ music is one of the best types to try out hifi gear with too! I can try it with my HE-500's and my speakers so it will be interesting. My speakers are stand mounts so do not go down very low anyway but I have heard the occasional low rumble with them. I'll check out the freq response of the HE-500's I don't know what the figures are off hand. Up till recently the HE-500's were one of the best for bass............. except for the LCD's of course, alright and the HD800's aren't bad!! Alright, alright..........

 

[baronbeehive]

Just look at my pics and you'll see where I put mine. Remember that they need to sit flush against the board (no solder points in between). They are a little taller than the PCB standoffs so you can use washers if you want, otherwise you need to be careful not to over tighten the screws when you put it back together.

Thanks, I'll check it out

. Did you have trouble avoiding the posts? I know you said you never wanted to remove the PCB ever again

.

 

[SonicTrance]

Just look at my pics and you'll see where I put mine. Remember that they need to sit flush against the board (no solder points in between). They are a little taller than the PCB standoffs so you can use washers if you want, otherwise you need to be careful not to over tighten the screws when you put it back together.

Thanks, I'll check it out :happy_face1: . Did you have trouble avoiding the posts? I know you said you never wanted to remove the PCB ever again :eek: .

Yes, if I can avoid removing it again I will. It's just a pain to remove it, especially now with all the extra caps on. I have removed two standoffs, one on each side by the driver tubes for easier installation.

 

[baronbeehive]

  .........
 
3 - The tracks (both "electronica")
 
Covenant > In transit > Intro (from start to 2:00). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruLq9h-fOg
In this track, the 20Hz is "certified present" even if you can't hear it. When you'll ear the track, you'll find it "self-explainatory"
 
Isan > Salle d'Isan > Day & Later (didn't find it on YT - PM me if you can't find it)
This one is a bitch, with a bass line you should be able to follow all the time, and some octaves below the same line (that is the real challenge to hear), with inter-modulations to boot.

 
I tried them both over my speakers which have a lower frequency limit of 45hz and despite that I picked it up on the Covenant track as a very low frequency hum, more felt than heard! The other track is here if anyone didn't find it:
 
http://isan.bandcamp.com/track/days-later
 
Its much more difficult to hear, I can't tell if the bass line I'm hearing is the 20hz or one a bit higher! It's much like a low frequency hum that people around here report hearing at night and nobody knows what is causing it! I think the higher frequencies would be more of a problem for me.
 
I haven't tried it over headphones.
 
Don't know if anyone else tried it??

 

[Redge78]

   
I tried them both over my speakers which have a lower frequency limit of 45hz and despite that I picked it up on the Covenant track as a very low frequency hum, more felt than heard! The other track is here if anyone didn't find it:
 
http://isan.bandcamp.com/track/days-later
 
Its much more difficult to hear, I can't tell if the bass line I'm hearing is the 20hz or one a bit higher! It's much like a low frequency hum that people around here report hearing at night and nobody knows what is causing it! I think the higher frequencies would be more of a problem for me.
 
I haven't tried it over headphones.
 
Don't know if anyone else tried it??

On Covenant, with the MK8/HD800 I can clearly ear the 31Hz, I have a significant decrease of volume at 25Hz and I can only vaguely/faintly distinguish the 20Hz. I guess my system cut-off frequency should be between 25 and 30Hz, which is not so bad actually.
On Isan, on the highest notes of the bass line, I can clearly hear both the bass and the sub-bass. When the notes get lower, the sub-bass vanishes.
 
I have heard those two tracks on a "bloody good" speaker system (Accuphase > Audio Research > Tube amp 845/845 > Wilson Sacha) and I can guaranty you that the lowest notes (20Hz and below) are not just felt or like some hummings, they are real/clear/separate notes you can ear/follow at full volume, with an impressive feeling of power delivered. 
 
But to be honest, most systems feel on Isan, no matter the price tag.

 

[baronbeehive]

  On Covenant, with the MK8/HD800 I can clearly ear the 31Hz, I have a significant decrease of volume at 25Hz and I can only vaguely/faintly distinguish the 20Hz. I guess my system cut-off frequency should be between 25 and 30Hz, which is not so bad actually.
On Isan, on the highest notes of the bass line, I can clearly hear both the bass and the sub-bass. When the notes get lower, the sub-bass vanishes.
 
I have heard those two tracks on a "bloody good" speaker system (Accuphase > Audio Research > Tube amp 845/845 > Wilson Sacha) and I can guaranty you that the lowest notes (20Hz and below) are not just felt or like some hummings, they are real/clear/separate notes you can ear/follow at full volume, with an impressive feeling of power delivered.
 
But to be honest, most systems feel on Isan, no matter the price tag.

 
Yes that's exactly how I would describe hearing it, as I said it was difficult to tell which was the 20hz bass line in the Isan and it did begin to disappear the lower it got, so that speaker system must be impressive!