[Bazile]

A couple of questions, although I'm afraid I know the answer to the first one.
Are these mods a rank amateur could do? I have a soldering iron, and built a Heathkit TV with my dad as a kid, but expert, I am not. (note...almost 50 yrs ago...sigh)
Secondly, are the mods basically listed in the order they should be done, or in order of importance?
I have a Little Dot MK6, not a plus. It sounds wonderful with a Schitt GMB Dac and stock tubes though a pre fazor LCD 2.2, but you always want more.
With no modding skills what so ever should I just move to tube swapping, or a MJ2 and tube swapping?  A great thread, and thank you in advance for the help.

 

[coinmaster]

You don't need to be an expert, just need patience.
Order of important = coupling cap, cathode bypass, new cathode follower mod, decoupling, resistors.

 

[Bazile]

Thank you.
So there is no order they have to be done in?

 

[Maxx134]

A couple of questions, although I'm afraid I know the answer to the first one.
Are these mods a rank amateur could do? I have a soldering iron, and built a Heathkit TV with my dad as a kid, but expert, I am not. (note...almost 50 yrs ago...sigh)
Secondly, are the mods basically listed in the order they should be done, or in order of importance?
I have a Little Dot MK6, not a plus. It sounds wonderful with a Schitt GMB Dac and stock tubes though a pre fazor LCD 2.2, but you always want more.
With no modding skills what so ever should I just move to tube swapping, or a MJ2 and tube swapping?  A great thread, and thank you in advance for the help.

It WAS in order of importance untill today with latest mod...

I would consider the three caps as the "trifecta" for sonic signature:
1-Coupling
2-Cathode bypass
3-What coupling


And the large Decoupling caps for:
impact/definition/dynamics and speed...

Bypass caps for sparkle/air/edge/+speed

PSU last stage caps for weight/authority/power in low end.

The wiring and grid resistors are for clarity as well.


There is even another grid resistor mod we havent mentioned, but already implemented,
involving the grid resitor right after the WCF "new cap" mods..

We felt we need to only mention and emphasize the most important mods first,
Which are the caps...


I would say the mods are at least an intermediate level,
Not a beginner level.
Each change are recommended to be done in stages,
in order to solve problems along the way... Like mistakes or brittle wires breaking off with board removal...

For you, I would see great accomplishment by TAKING IT SLOW,

And also studying the board and clicking every link, schematic Refge78 offers...

It's there FOR A REASON.
We want people to have an UNDERSTANDING of the project involved..

Yes, this must be considered a DIY project amp in this thread..

So beginners not recommended,
BUT LEARN in first page posta, and you will succeed!

You can always find someone competent to do the job if you are not inclined...

For me I had to be both a surgeon and a jewler

So only you can answer that question of, "can I do it"..

 

[Maxx134]

You don't need to be an expert, just need patience.
Order of important = coupling cap, cathode bypass, new cathode follower mod, decoupling, resistors.

Correct!
Now I can goto sleep & you can take over!

 

[SonicTrance]

How detumefying !  I have had a brief look at the datasheets and I was wondering how you managed the tenfold rise of the plate resistance ... 



There is not one tube in the world (that I know of) that is "plug'n'play" with the 6H30 ! Not one. Nada. Que dalle.

... which doesn't mean that your swap didn't work wonders. But most probably you were pushing your tubes outside their nominal specs, with an undefined impact on their life expectancy.
Which may or may not be trivial, depending on how much you paid them, I suppose.

Most tube rollers run tubes out of spec all the time. I have not once run my mk6 with driver tubes It's designed for. I even bought my amp without tubes.

Dont overthink this now, just try it and listen. You might like what you hear

 

[Maxx134]

Most tube rollers run tubes out of spec all the time. I have not once run my mk6 with driver tubes It's designed for. I even bought my amp without tubes...

I understand this,
as operating outside the linear parmeters of a given tube, to get another result,
which is a heavier signature of the tube, that some people prefer.
Edit: Yes some can be very sweet.

Rather than go for a certain tube sound, higher end tube amps go for transparency,
which is what we now have in spades..

 

[Redge78]

Most tube rollers run tubes out of spec all the time. I have not once run my mk6 with driver tubes It's designed for. I even bought my amp without tubes.

Dont overthink this now, just try it and listen. You might like what you hear

Understanding the mods is 50% of the fun (and 90% of my time ...), with a 25% when the experiments are successful, and a 25% in sharing things with nice people.
Overthinking things is kind of a second nature, I guess.
 
It's not the first time I hear this "6H30 vs 6SN7" comparaison, with 6SN7 being more appreciated. That's real, no doubts in that. But in what context ?
There is so much difference between an "original" amp and a "fully modded" amp that the results of tube rolling done with an "original" may very much be different with a "fully modded".
 
Maxx has experimented that with his (plain)" 6H30-EH" vs (precious)"6H30-DR". The differences between those 2 varie a lot depending on how "refined" your amp is.
 
 
And I always keep in mind that Audio Research and Ayon put 6H30 in their (top of the line) output stages. That's for a reason, for sure. Those guys aren't slouch. 

 

[SonicTrance]

Understanding the mods is 50% of the fun (and 90% of my time ...), with a 25% when the experiments are successful, and a 25% in sharing things with nice people.
Overthinking things is kind of a second nature, I guess.

It's not the first time I hear this "6H30 vs 6SN7" comparaison, with 6SN7 being more appreciated. That's real, no doubts in that. But in what context ?
There is so much difference between an "original" amp and a "fully modded" amp that the results of tube rolling done with an "original" may very much be different with a "fully modded".

Maxx has experimented that with his (plain)" 6H30-EH" vs (precious)"6H30-DR". The differences between those 2 varie a lot depending on how "refined" your amp is.


And I always keep in mind that Audio Research and Ayon put 6H30 in their (top of the line) output stages. That's for a reason, for sure. Those guys aren't slouch. 

I'm sure you are right that a modded amp reacts differently to tube rolling. I have only made the coupling cap and power resistor mod as of yet, and tube rolling is still very noticeable. I hope the coming mods doesn't take away the magic sound of my present tubes

Btw, that ECC32/33/35 comparison I made in the other thread, the ECC32 came out on top. And thats the tube furthest away from original spec

 

[Redge78]

  Thank you.
So there is no order they have to be done in?

Hi Bazile,
 
Assuming you want to do all four main mods, there are several orders you can consider.
Below are general guidelines, they may vary if you choose to remove the board or not, if you build an extra-case or not, ... 
 
Practicality / Ease/order of modding :  Cathode bypass > "WCF" Coupling > Decoupling = "Main" Coupling
Cost :                                               Cathode bypass >>>  "WCF" Coupling = Decoupling = "Main" Coupling
Sonic gain :                                      "Main" Coupling > Decoupling > "WCF" Coupling = Cathode bypass  (but not really sure here)
 
Anyway, whatever choice you make, you can come here and we will guide you the best we can.

 

[Maxx134]

I hope the coming mods doesn't take away the magic sound of my present tubes

Magic??...

Don't remember any magic???...

I only observed the amp being possessed...
Alive!

 

[Redge78]

I hope the coming mods doesn't take away the magic sound of my present tubes

If I believe the testimonies of mister M****23, you're in for re-assessing what "magic" is ... several times.

 

[SonicTrance]

If I believe the testimonies of mister M****23, you're in for re-assessing what "magic" is ... several times.

Don't know who that is but I'm sure you are right. I wouldn't plan mods and buy parts like I do if I didn't believe that

 

[coinmaster]

Mister-X, There are no words for how much of a piece of crap the stock amp is compared to after the upgrades, It's not even in the same ballpark. The changes in sound quality aren't going to be subtle.
If magic is what you want, then the stock mk6/8 is like getting a high quality magic set from the toy store 

.
The mods turn it into Houdini. 
Unfortunately I won't be able to listen to mine again for months due to my ......advanced upgrade plans.
 
I can't imagine what it can possibly sound like if I improve on the sound even more. But I'm getting rid of the resistors in the pot, replacing cathode bypass cap with mkp, and now there's this new WCF mod that is supposed to be nearly on par with coupling upgrade???

 I can't even imagine how there is enough ROOM for another coupling cap level improvement in the sound.

 

[Maxx134]

If I believe the testimonies of mister M****23, you're in for re-assessing what "magic" is ... several times.

Don't know who that is but I'm sure you are right. I wouldn't plan mods and buy parts like I do if I didn't believe that

That's probably me as I have made sure to verify sonic observations,
In case any trolls come in from "DIY" comunities, or "Sound science" thread guys to try question these upgrade...

ALL MAIN MODS HAVE BEEN SONICALLY VERIFIED...
And of course EXPLAINED IN FIRST POST! ..

I should have my amp available for listening at the next NY headfi meet..(!)

So the "proof is in the pudding" for any future "doubters" that want to hear! Lol

They would have to supply
a stock MK8 for comparison...