[doctorjazz]

As my man Wayne said in response to a similar question (on the Discovery Thread)...
Send them over and I'll compare them and tell you

Seriously, haven't heard any of them to compare, Have the Geek Out 1K and Special Edition, 1K is really nice sounding, Special Edition is really much nicer sounding. Have the CEentrance M8 LX, at least, I purchased it not too long ago, but didn't want to connect to my PC or phone, something wrong, so it is currently "in the shop", back at CEentrance, when it comes back I can compare. I do have some portable DAPs, Pono, DX90, love Pono but GO SE much better sounding (though it is a bit difficult to do direct comparisons, they are such different set ups).

I'm listening to my Giik Out Special Edition, nice Pono store hi rez Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere. I started listening to the HE-560, just doesn't have the juice to drive it. Changed to Thinksound On1, really fine sounding. My question, (applies to some other cans I use, like the Koss ESP-950): Is there a setting to use this as a real line out, so I can just use the (fine) DA converter, run it into my Ray Samuels, HR-2, and have the juice to drive the 560 (or into the Koss electrostatic amp)?

Thanks

Hey, does your Geek Out SE sound better than iFi iDSD, AK240, Calyx M, Cowon P1??

 

[kawaivpc1]

As my man Wayne said in response to a similar question (on the Discovery Thread)...
Send them over and I'll compare them and tell you

Seriously, haven't heard any of them to compare, Have the Geek Out 1K and Special Edition, 1K is really nice sounding, Special Edition is really much nicer sounding. Have the CEentrance M8 LX, at least, I purchased it not too long ago, but didn't want to connect to my PC or phone, something wrong, so it is currently "in the shop", back at CEentrance, when it comes back I can compare. I do have some portable DAPs, Pono, DX90, love Pono but GO SE much better sounding (though it is a bit difficult to do direct comparisons, they are such different set ups).

interesting... how can you describe the difference between Geek Out 1k and SE?
I have the 1k. It sounds great and definitely better than DAPs.
Does SE have wider sound stage? more details?

 

[miceblue]

A true line out doesn't exist for the GO, unfortunately. You would have to make the master volume at maximum to get a bit-perfect output.

 

[ericr]

A true line out doesn't exist for the GO, unfortunately. You would have to make the master volume at maximum to get a bit-perfect output.

For those wanting a true line-out (completely bypassing the amp section) the HRT Microstreamer is an alternative well worth considering. Also, the volume control of the amp section (headphone out) is analog and thus avoids the degradation issues of digital volume control.

 

[doctorjazz]

Hmmm...pity, makes it unusable with 2 of my favorite cans (luckily I have good alternatives). As for the 1k vs SE, I don't have the 1K handy for direct comparison(it's here someplace, turn up at some point), but from memory it has richer, smoother textures, timing that seems relaxed and spot on at the same time, more detail without it being thrusted in your face. Not that the 1K isn't fine sounding. In fact, went for the SE BECAUSE I liked the 1K so much, I had to hear what LH could do with it if they maxed out parts and implementation. Not that the 1K needs to feel bad about being bested by its 3x more expensive sibling.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

It depends on the power output on the phone and that varies on different phone models. You could also try with the USB Audio Player Pro or Hiby Music app to see if it makes a difference.

Well.. I went on GPlay hoping to find a trial version of the USB Audio Player Pro but it's a buy app only. I guess my question now is has anyone gotten the GO to work with a Samsung S3 (4.4.2) via OTG out without a power supply? If so what music player are you using? I don't really want to buy this app if what I really need is a unit to supply the GO via OTG. I'm content with Neutron player as it is.

 

 

[kawaivpc1]

Hmmm...pity, makes it unusable with 2 of my favorite cans (luckily I have good alternatives). As for the 1k vs SE, I don't have the 1K handy for direct comparison(it's here someplace, turn up at some point), but from memory it has richer, smoother textures, timing that seems relaxed and spot on at the same time, more detail without it being thrusted in your face. Not that the 1K isn't fine sounding. In fact, went for the SE BECAUSE I liked the 1K so much, I had to hear what LH could do with it if they maxed out parts and implementation. Not that the 1K needs to feel bad about being bested by its 3x more expensive sibling.

Geek Out SE is 799 dollars. It's definitely expansive.
How about other DACs?? what DAC can you compare to Geek Out SE?
I'm also interested in iFi iDSD. Do you think Geek Out SE is better than iDSD?
 
Geek Out SE has two femto clocks in it. That's why it's so much better than Geek Out 1k.
But, I was informed that Geek Stream and Geek Wave will have better sound quality than Geek Out SE.

 

[doctorjazz]

OK, I'm still ready to receive any amp/dac for comparison!
My experience so far has been mostly DAPs in the portable world, specifically, went from iPod Touch to Fiio X3 to iBasso DX90 to Pono, pretty much for headphone listening (had some others along the way, and also portable amps, the ALO National, and the Cayin C5). I have a Peachtree GrandPre which is a nice preamp and DAC as part of my living room Big Rig, also a Mojo tube DA converter that I have used, not connected at present.
I got the CEntrance M8 when it was on Massdrop, but it didn't seem to work-couldn't get it to connect to my PC or my phone. It is back at CEntrance now, not sure when I'll get it back. That is the only thing that is close to an "apples to apples" comparison, which I'll do when it comes back.
Iheard good ehings about the iDSD as well, haven't heard it, though.
I do have the Geek Stream and Geek Out on order, (also the Soul Tube, or whatever they are calling it now), but, who the heck knows when those will finally arrive...
(I had the choice, kids college fund, LH labs crowd funding, went back and forth, guess who won?....)

 

[kawaivpc1]

OK, I'm still ready to receive any amp/dac for comparison!

My experience so far has been mostly DAPs in the portable world, specifically, went from iPod Touch to Fiio X3 to iBasso DX90 to Pono, pretty much for headphone listening (had some others along the way, and also portable amps, the ALO National, and the Cayin C5). I have a Peachtree GrandPre which is a nice preamp and DAC as part of my living room Big Rig, also a Mojo tube DA converter that I have used, not connected at present.
I got the CEntrance M8 when it was on Massdrop, but it didn't seem to work-couldn't get it to connect to my PC or my phone. It is back at CEntrance now, not sure when I'll get it back. That is the only thing that is close to an "apples to apples" comparison, which I'll do when it comes back.
Iheard good ehings about the iDSD as well, haven't heard it, though.
I do have the Geek Stream and Geek Out on order, (also the Soul Tube, or whatever they are calling it now), but, who the heck knows when those will finally arrive...
(I had the choice, kids college fund, LH labs crowd funding, went back and forth, guess who won?....)

Geek Out SE vs ALO National, Cayin C5, Peachtree GrandPre, Mojo tube DA???
 
What do you think?

 

[doctorjazz]

Geek Out SE much better than Pono/ALO combination or iBasso DX90/ALO combination, though I haven't compared them directly, as GO is connected to my PC using JRiver 19, while Pono is what I use on the go or in bed, with or without the National. Combination Pono/National marginally better than Pono alone, Pono pretty sweet sounding imo. Get a bit more bass presence/tightness, and a bit more oomph for harder to drive cans. SE alone poops out with HE-560, Senn 650, both do better with Pono into my Ray Samuels HR-2. As for the Peachtree and Mojo, whole different experience. Have them in a set up with Krell KSA 150 amp and Thiel 3.6 speakers, and I can't really say how they compare, love the sound on the big rig, but I find the experience different than headphone listening. The Mojo does move up some from the Peachtree built in DAC, but it doesn't always play well with the preamp, something about them both being output transformerless, and the preamp has gotten fried twice, so they aren't connected at present.

 

[doctorjazz]

(My Linn LP12 turntable beats them all, but I listen to it the least because it is the biggest PIA of the bunch as well...)

 

[miceblue]

I posted this on the LH forums, but it's relevant here too.

I've been doing A/B testing between the Geek Out 450 and Objective DAC/Objective 2 with approximate volume-matching. I like the ODAC/O2 for its spacious sound, but FRM mode seems to do a better job at the soundstage compared to TCM, which I find to sound a bit congested and closed-in. FRM mode also improves the imaging to me compared to TCM mode, making instruments easier to track within a recording. When comparing against the ODAC/O2, I prefer FRM mode over TCM because of the lack of a harsh sound and a more spacious sound, whereas the TCM mode sounds more alike to the ODAC/O2 in terms the harsh sound that I hear. ODAC/O2 sounds like TCM's harshness plus FRM's spaciousness.


I'm shocked actually....I really thought the TCM mode was the one I like. With all of the talk of the minimum phase filter removing pre-ringing? (the instruction manual says it removes post ringing, but I thought minimum phase filters remove the pre-ringing), I thought the harsh sound of the TCM mode was really from the FRM filter......all this time I thought TCM mode was when you press the concave button on the Geek Out. Apparently I like FRM mode a lot more. I find it to remove a sort of harsh sound that I hear in my music compared to TCM mode, which is the opposite of what I would expect given that TCM is a minimum phase filter. Maybe this is what is meant by "smoother sound" from the instruction manual. Apparently the whole minimum phase filter thing doesn't do it for me. >.>
I do find the instrument separation a bit better on the TCM mode, whereas FRM mode kind of blurs the imaging a bit at the expense of making it sound less harsh to my ears.

The FRM mode looks problematic with the slow roll-off filter and allowing aliasing to come within the audible band compared to the TCM mode (which was commented to look similar to the ODAC's digital filter and might explain why the TCM mode sounds harsh to my ears and has a similar sense of instrument separation). I'm still confused as to how the lack of alias rejection in the FRM mode would allow better IMD and THD measurements.


Regardless of the filter though, I like the more centered imaging of the GO than the ODAC/O2, which I always found to sound a little flat but spacious. Detail retrieval is hard to say between the two. I find it easier to track some instruments with the ODAC/O2 than the GO such as the harpsichord in Massive Attack's "Teardrop" song (maybe due to the lower background noise), but I find it easier to hear the textures of instruments in John Hammond's "Get Behind the Mule" song. However, the ODAC/O2 just sounds a lot cleaner to me in terms of how black the background is. It might be because of the design of the O2 with basically no residual background noise because my GO 450 unit has a pretty high noise rating at around 19 μV. I'll need to do more testing with the ODAC/O2 vs the GO 1000 to see if that affects anything since the GO 1000 definitely has less noise (still not as quiet as the ODAC/O2 though). Another thing is that I found the ODAC/O2 to have a harder-hitting bass response that's more well-defined; the GO's bass response is a little more woolly-sounding to me. I don't listen to my music at a particularly high level, so I don't think it's a power output limitation per se (the Audio MIDI app in OS X says the GO's master volume level is at -43 dB; analogue volume at 0 dB for Redbook music with a dynamic range rating of 8 ). Again, I'll need to do more testing with the GO 1000 since the GO 1000 has a higher SNR value according to Larry.
lhlabs.com/force/geekout/898-geek-out-vs...rd-installment#13852


In short, I still like the ODAC/O2 for what it is, but I've been enjoying the Geek Out more. Having an all-in-one solution for my music needs for a portable DAC/amp is much more convenient than carrying around the ODAC/O2 stack with all of the needed cables. The differences in sound quality really depend on what I'm in the mood for because I don't think one sounds much better than the other since they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The GO, from what I've seen, objectively measures better than the ODAC/O2 except for power output and noise, but I still prefer the ODAC/O2 in some areas (notably the spacious sound, blacker background, and harder-hitting and more well-defined bass). I prefer the GO's sound because it has 2 different filters that I can listen to with different kinds of sound profiles, has better detail retrieval for instruments' texture, and has a better center imaging.

Great job Light Harmonic, and geek on!

[rule]
Setup:
MacBook Pro with Audirvana Plus v1.5.12 software with 16/44.1 or 24/96 music
- Geek Out on the USB port with the least amount of peripherals attached
- Monoprice USB cable on the other USB port to the ODAC, Mediabridge RCA to 3.5 mm cable to the O2

2 OPPO PM-3 beta testing units

I created two Apple Scripts to quickly switch between the DACs in Audirvana Plus as I unplugged/plugged-in the PM-3's cable into the other amp

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Same boat here Mice....
 
I thought what I was liking was TCM...to found out it was FRM (undertood the opposite on how to switch between filters).

 

[chartwell85]

  Same boat here Mice....
 
I thought what I was liking was TCM...to found out it was FRM (undertood the opposite on how to switch between filters).

Working to provide more clarification and a better user manual as well.
 
FRM is my favorite filter as well 

 

[miceblue]

Working to provide more clarification and a better user manual as well.

FRM is my favorite filter as well 

I think for the TCM blurb, the minimum phase filter removes the PRE ringing, not the POST ringing as it says at the moment. Audio in the real world doesn't have pre-ringing, so the minimum phase filter is supposed to replicate that from what I understand.