[ToroFiestaSol]

Hey @Torq
this one looks promising:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac
 
Price is 2159usd for the level 3 Kitsune edition (best version available).

 

[Torq]

  I think the thread is getting a bit off track...  

 
I think many of us are waiting for more of Torq's listening impressions.

 
At least vinyl-reminiscence/discussion is interesting (to me) and doesn't raise my hackles the way repeated pushing of DSD or repetitive requests for PCM-1704 based DACs that I've already said I am not interested in does!  And its a nice change of speed from all the auditioning I had been doing.
 
It'll get back on track at some point.
 
I should know by the end of the weekend when I'm actually going to have the time to get back to this properly.  Right now that's still looking like middle of the month.  For some of the units on the list still I'll have to buy the units to listen to them (returnable within a short period - with any dealers/distributors involved knowing that I WILL be returning the unit from this round, since it's not fair to have them thinking I'll be buying until I've done the all-up comparisons).
 
But, I have to say, my enthusiasm for the process at this point is rather tamped down as a result of both over-doing it a bit so far and for the raw level of enjoyment I've been getting out of vinyl again.  In fact I've spent more time looking at making a major turntable upgrade and tracking down mint copies of the entire Rolling Stones top 100 albums of all time on vinyl, than I have thinking about digital anything.
 
I've not even made much progress on my streaming/network audio interface comparisons (enough to be mostly sure about what I'm hearing ... not enough to write it all up, share it, and make final usage decisions).

 

[Torq]

  Hey @Torq
this one looks promising:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac
 
Price is 2159usd for the level 3 Kitsune edition (best version available).

 
Interesting ... conceptually ... but unless one showed up in my local circle of friends (unlikely), it'll not be something I wind up hearing.
 
While having separate handling of DSD and PCM makes a lot of sense, from some perspectives, in terms of optimizing their respective performance, I still don't have any use for the DSD side of things.  And, as such, any money invested in dedicated, and separate, processing for DSD is a complete waste for me - it's parts-budget and R&D that could have gone to something I do care about - PCM playback.
 
With something like the DirectStream units, they convert everything to DSD internally and then handle it all the same, so there's no dedicated implementation that'd just sit there idle.

 

[artur9]

 
I've not even made much progress on my streaming/network audio interface comparisons (enough to be mostly sure about what I'm hearing ... not enough to write it all up, share it, and make final usage decisions).

I have a SotM SMS-200 on its way.  Promises to be fun.
I was also beta-ing the LANRover.  For me, the neat thing was in using it to place my music server about 30ft away from my audio system.
 
Just some things to consider.
 
BTW, any movement on your Bifrost comparison?

 

[Torq]

  I have a SotM SMS-200 on its way.  Promises to be fun.
I was also beta-ing the LANRover.  For me, the neat thing was in using it to place my music server about 30ft away from my audio system.
 
Just some things to consider.
 
BTW, any movement on your Bifrost comparison?

Very interested to hear what you think!
 
I'm keeping my findings on various streamer/network audio interfaces to myself for the next few days, but it has been an illuminating experience.  LANRover might be interesting, though my various Roon end-points achieve much the same thing in a slightly different manner.
 
And ... errrr ... yeah ... I did my Bifrost comparison ... just never posted it here.

 

[REXNFX]

Rave review od Bryston BDA3 below, my findings were closer to yours in that I found it a bit matter of fact and foward sounding. Maybe it needs a better transport, what did you use to feed it?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/718-bryston-bda-3-dac-review/

 

[Torq]

  Rave review od Bryston BDA3 below, my findings were closer to yours in that I found it a bit matter of fact and foward sounding. Maybe it needs a better transport, what did you use to feed it?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/718-bryston-bda-3-dac-review/

 
My listening has, where possible, been done using the following chain:
 
Roon -> Aries -> AES/EBU XLR -> Bryston BDA-3
 
Schiit now put a pair of 4490s in a $99 DAC module for their Jotunheim ... so color me un-impressed that Bryston can manage the same for $3.5K.  No doubt that HDMI fees for a boutique product are somewhat punishing, but, still, it's an asinine price for the performance it delivers.
 
Going from memory which is, for this sort of thing, admittedly a bit dodgy, but, musically, I'd take a Modi Multi-bit over the Bryston BDA-3.
 
In my opinion there's far too much "badge", "me too" and "what will the market bear?" going on with that thing for my liking.  But that's just me.  Can't see anyway this is going to get elevated to the level of the REAL competition in it's price range.  And Yggdrasil just completely walks over it.  

 

[artur9]

   
In my opinion there's far too much "badge", "me too" and "what will the market bear?" going on with that thing for my liking.  But that's just me.  Can't see anyway this is going to get elevated to the level of the REAL competition in it's price range.  And Yggdrasil just completely walks over it.  

 
I think one has to be really committed to Bryston for some of their pricing/gear to make sense.  The Bryston Pi is also overpriced even with the pretty screen (which turns off during use so it's not that pretty in practice).  Ditto, I believe, for their DACs.
 
How many people have to have all matching gear?

 

[artur9]

  LANRover might be interesting, though my various Roon end-points achieve much the same thing in a slightly different manner.

LANRover seems to offer some of the benefits of AOIP.  But since you've stepped aware from USB I can't see that it is at all relevant to the direction you're heading.
 
On the other hand, all the cheaper "network transports" only seem to offer USB audio so there you go.

 

[Beolab]

What about the Select II , have you heard it yet Torq? I think it is great but a slight clinical, but got the best 3D soundstadge i have heard. (The DAVE is my reference)

 

[Torq]

No, I've not heard the Select DAC II yet.
 
In general, if it's not listed in blue in the table in the first post, then it's safe to assume I've not heard it.  Actually, that's not quite true ... it's safe to assume that I've not auditioned it (I may have heard it in non-audition-worthy circumstances).  Though, in this case, I've not heard it at all.
 
I'd like to say that I'm keen to.  I'd be lying, though.  That's not any lack of enthusiasm for MSB's, or anyone else's, products ... just the realities of a drawn out process with many distractions along the way.  I'm having far more fun just listening to music and tracking down some difficult-to-find LPs and looking at potential turntable upgrades than I am auditioning gear.  And the whole vinyl thing is something I just generally do not do on headphones, which complicates matters (and, of course, doesn't require a DAC anyway).
 
And then there's the Utopia (headphone) ...
 
This has me rethinking my entire headphone set-up - at least to the headphone/amp level.  Utopia doesn't need tonal shifts or color from tubes (though that's still enjoyable), and it doesn't need especially high power levels, and the notion that it can replace several of my high-end headphones has me staring down the path of simplicity ... and who knows where that winds up!
 
So, while I fully intend to complete my DAC auditions, and don't really want to drag that out (I'd rather get it done), I'm not even sure to what degree it's going to be relevant to me going forward.  

 

[johnjen]

That is an interesting series of 'observations'.
 
That much of a net effect, huh?
 
So how many hrs on the Utopia's thus far?
 
JJ

 

[Torq]

They're just doing everything "right".
 
Yes, the HD800S (and I would assume the HD800) have slightly better transient response.  But we're talking VERY slightly.
 
They lack a bit in the bass compared to the Abyss and LCD-4 (more and more I think the LCD-4 are exaggerating the bottom end), but you'd have to listen back-to-back to tell (okay, it's obvious vs. the LCD-4, but again, they now seem overdone).  I've not tried EQ'ing that up at all, but I'm sure that'd bring them in line, since they're ahead of the HD800S there anyway, and they have spectacular articulation.
 
Beyond that, it's not so much that they really stand-out ... in and of themselves (they're not "exciting" like the Abyss per-se, or "laid back" like the HE-1000) ... it's that they show up the issues in everything else by being transparent and just getting out of the way.
 
There's a couple of spots of very slight forwardness with the Ragnarok, but I don't notice it through the WA5-LE.  That correlates with the measurements I've seen.
 
Seriously thinking that I can get rid of everything except the Utopia and Abyss, headphone wise.  And then that just leaves fine-tuning amplification choices.  Love my tubes, but the Focals are so good even off solid-state that I could see seeking a "simpler" solution.  My aesthetic tendencies sort of preclude that but it'd be very interesting to hear these on @Barra's Black Widow (though I understand the BW2 is less warm/euphonic).
 
We'll try and set something up for a 4-way (5 if you want to bring your modded HD800 again) shoot-out in the VERY near future (you know, unless I sell the LCD-4 and HD800S that fast).
 
Oh, and the dealer had these running in for about 48 hours (at my request) before I got to pick them up, and they've been running constantly since Thursday, despite me being tied up in a wedding etc., so they've got a few hours shy of a full-week on them now.  Really can't say I notice a difference between my first listen and now, but who knows?!

 

[Barra]

Hey Torq, have you heard of the R2R HoloAudio KitsuneTuned Edition Spring Dac: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/? Seems to be getting stellar reviews vs. the Ygg with many selling their Ygg to grab the Spring. They are at the same price. The feedback is similar resolution, but the Spring makes the Ygg sound thin giving the Spring the musical edge - the Spring may have a little larger sound stage as well. This is what Kevin Gilmore who made the Blue Hawaii Amp had to say:
 
Kevin Gilmore quoted:
"The holo spring is the first fully compensated discrete R2R dac to come to market. The other discrete R2R units I am aware of (soekris,msb etc) do not do linearity compensation.
I think this is going to be a big deal going forward. At least until a monolithic R2R high resolution dac chip comes out. (could be a long time) It is possible, with 10nm technology, but not going to be cheap. Say $300 per channel..." 
 
Link to the Holo Audio Spring dac thread and Kevin's post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac/15#post_12826142
 
Tim has one that he is going to let me demo and you too if interested, but thought it would also be fun to do another group get together and see what the group consensus is on the Spring vs. the Ygg. It would also be a good excuse to hear your new Utopia as well to compare to the 4 and the Abyss.

 

[Torq]

  Hey Torq, have you heard of the R2R HoloAudio KitsuneTuned Edition Spring Dac: https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/? Seems to be getting stellar reviews vs. the Ygg with many selling their Ygg to grab the Spring. They are at the same price. The feedback is similar resolution, but the Spring makes the Ygg sound thin giving the Spring the musical edge - the Spring may have a little larger sound stage as well. This is what Kevin Gilmore who made the Blue Hawaii Amp had to say:
 
Kevin Gilmore quoted:
"The holo spring is the first fully compensated discrete R2R dac to come to market. The other discrete R2R units I am aware of (soekris,msb etc) do not do linearity compensation.
I think this is going to be a big deal going forward. At least until a monolithic R2R high resolution dac chip comes out. (could be a long time) It is possible, with 10nm technology, but not going to be cheap. Say $300 per channel..." 
 
Link to the Holo Audio Spring dac thread and Kevin's post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac/15#post_12826142
 
Tim has one that he is going to let me demo and you too if interested, but thought it would also be fun to do another group get together and see what the group consensus is on the Spring vs. the Ygg. It would also be a good excuse to hear your new Utopia as well to compare to the 4 and the Abyss.

Someone mentioned it in the "Life after Yggdrasil?" thread, but I didn't see a simple way to audition one.  However, if Tim has access to it, then we should make it part of our next shoot-out session for sure.  And make a day of it so we can get all four flagship headphones covered as well.
 
That'd also make it doable to add it to my all-up DAC evaluation (even if I'm really having to resist the lure of an extravagant upgrade to my turntable ...).