LH Labs Geek Out v2 Discussion Thread

[cfbruck]

So, maybe this has been asked already...
 
If I get a TRRS balanced cable that fits my headphone (He-400S), can I just use the balanced output? Or does the headphone have to be changed in some way?

 

[tfischer]

  So, maybe this has been asked already...
 
If I get a TRRS balanced cable that fits my headphone (He-400S), can I just use the balanced output? Or does the headphone have to be changed in some way?

The headphone does not need to be changed in any way. HifiMan sells a balanced cable with a TRRS plug, their "Crystalline Balanced Cable", which would work for the HE400S, for $129. 
 
I also have an HE400S and a GOv2, and I couldn't justify paying nearly half the price of the HE400S for HifiMan's balanced cable, so I made one myself, using some Mogami 2893 cable sheathed in paracord, connected to TRS and TRRS connectors ordered via ali-express and banggood.
 
Using the GOv2's balanced output appears to take the HE400S to another level - better channel separation, more available micro-detail, deeper bass extension (perhaps?). At least, that is what I'm telling myself - since I'm pretty proud of my first-time cable-making handiwork, my findings are probably pretty subjective...
 

 
If you want to make your own cable as well, know that the 2.5mm TRS plugs should be wired so that the tip is R/L+ and the sleeve is R/L-, with nothing connected to the ring. I got this info directly from HifiMan's customer service department (thanks, Amy!), along with the following highly technical HifiMan technician-drawn diagram :
 

 
 
The wiring for the 3.5mm TRRS connector on the GOv2 end can be found in the LHLabs GeekOut v2 user guide:
 
 
 

 
tom

 

[musicheaven]

Using above TRRS connection diagram, if you have a cable that ends in a 4-pin XLR connector you can build your own adapter with a male XLR connector at one end and a male TRRS connector at the other. Shouldn't cost you more than 15$ and that can be re-used with other similar balanced 4-pin XLR cables. Other adapters you can make:

4-pin XLR to 3-pin TRS 3.5 mm
3-pin 1/4 to 3-pin TRS 3.5 mm

Building adapters is the best way to build once and use many times.

 

[Skepsis]

Ah the persuit of better sq.

A few things considering your experiment:

(1) You're not concerned about voiding warranties in your experiment.
(2) Yo don't mind if one or more components aren't functioning after your experiment

Having tossed those two considerations aside, here is what I think would work best without being a true full Balanced LO to Balanced LI connection;

Connect each of your HP channel this way:

TRRS. XLR(pin)
Left +. --->. 2
Left - --->. 3
Left - --->. 1

Repeat and rinse for the right channel. Although not the best configuration compared to a true balanced line out, it should provide you with roughly 20 to 30 dB of common mode rejection. You use a 2 wire cable with a ground shield (3-wire connection for a balanced channel).

Now my honest opinion about this: unless you run miles of cable and/or you're in a electrically high noise environment, you're results won't be that much better. I believe people's perception of a better sq is more related to higher voltage levels afforded with a true balanced connection, that's just my opinion.

Thx. for saying this - I must postpone my experiments for having other priorities and duties at the moment, but very interesting. 

Other interesting observation I have made with GOV2 INF: I get a dramatically improved, nearly perfect DSD like sound, if I am playing back a PCM source foo_dsd_asio (from my virtual instruments on my DAW Reaper e.g.), setting the source output to a multiple sampling rate of 44.1KHz and enabling PCM to DSD conversion. Is it possible, that this is the result of the architecture of the DSD DAC being a conventional Sigma-Delta chip. My take is: the ressources of the computer to make the conversion are abound compared to the DAC chip, therefore enabling for a much better quality conversion algorithm, as making this internally. 

Your opinion?

 

[tvnosaint]

I feel like a moron for not pursuing the cable sooner. The difference is absolute. It's an incredible kit running balanced. BTG can make a cable for it for around $100. Or impact audio for $68 but I think you'd have to get an adapter . Not sure if they have trrs mini. They have 4pin xlr. Then you can get an adapter for $25 off amazon when they have them. Comprehensive 4pin xlr to 3.5 mini trrs.

 

[xkonfuzed]

I have a question regarding the filters. Does anyone actually notice the difference between the green and blue filters? I know the green one is supposed to mellow out the highs and brings some warmth into the mix, but I'm just not hearing the difference. At all. 

 

[mikoss]

Definitely there is a difference. I posted some thoughts elsewhere just a couple of nights ago, here they are:
 
My thoughts with respect to the FRM and TCM filters... (FRM is green LED; TCM is blue LED)

I believe the FRM filter sounds more natural to my ears... the tonality sounds correct from top to bottom; the tonal weight is more even, and seems to capture more overall musical information/emotion. The TCM filter seems to change the tone in an unnatural way to my ears... the treble seems to either change in pitch, or there is some sort of overall shift that emphasis a less realistic sound. My problem is that I actually hear different details with the TCM filter... I pick out things I don't seem to normally notice with Gumby. This surprises me, because I do enjoy hearing into the mix this way. I kind of wish there was a way to combine both filters.

To simplify my experiences with both filters, I will say TCM seems to sound more precise, yet voices/instruments/overall tone is lacking in presentation. FRM sounds more natural, perhaps a bit fuzzier, but generally a preferred experience. I use FRM nearly all the time...
 
 
(@xkonfuzed funny that you mentioned the treble... the TCM filter [blue] definitely does something weird to the treble, as I posted above. This is probably the difference that is easiest to hear switching back and forth, however the filters are almost night/day once you really get a feel for the GOv2. Almost as much of a difference in sound as going SE to balanced. Occasionally I forget to switch to the green filter, and wonder what is going on after listening for a while, then I look down and notice it's on the blue filter).

 

[xkonfuzed]

Then I think there must be something faulty with my unit because I am hearing no differences whatsoever. Not even the slightest. Is there a way to test this out?

 

[xkonfuzed]

Scratch that. The differences were so extremely subtle with me MA900's that I doubted whether the filter was working or not. Switched to the HD650 and played some AC/DC tracks and noticed the differences immediately. 
 
You were right about the treble. The cymbals have more of an [unpleasant] zing to them. 

 

[tvnosaint]

I can't endorse the balanced end for the 560. Very poor pairing. Brings out all the heat in the high end. Bass is good , mids are scooped and highs are very hot to my ears. With the omni it is amazing. Not quite as tight in the bass as the LC . It's really close everywhere else considering the price. The fact I can take my pc outside and get this performance makes the convenience of this unit a huge plus. Just not with the 560.

 

[mikoss]

Very good point. I've personally found GOv2 does not do any favours to headphones with a fair amount of treble energy. I've experimented here and there and my conclusion is that the synergy is there with the 650's, yet a bit sharp with other brighter headphones.

 

[cfbruck]

I discovered a thing that is puzzling me.
 
I compared the sound from my geek out connected to 1) macbook pro 2015 2) stationary PC
 
The sound from the PC was much (maybe a bit) better, somewhat brigher. Better is of course subjective, but a more objective difference was ability to power my HE400S. When connected to PC the output power was significantly greater (if you measure by how much is left before volume hits max.)
 
Why is this? I would really love to have the sound of the pc from my mac. Is the geek out underpowered from the mac?

 

[ufospls2]

I'm really bummed, my Geek Out V2 has slowly been having more and more things go wrong with it. My first Geek Out V2 feel apart physically, and was replaced by LH Labs no problem (no complaints about the customer service) but now my replacement is dying. First it started randomly changing sample rates. Now it is disconnecting (without being touched or moved) randomly, the light displaying power mode has stopped working, and it will only work from one of my MBP's USB ports. Its not a problem with the USB port as I run all my other gear out of that port, so something is up with the GOV2. 
 
I'm travelling at the moment and brought my GOV2 with my as my source. I don't want to open a ticket yet as I am in Scotland for a few more weeks and wouldn't have anything to power my headphones, so I will just have to nurse it along until I get home. 
 
The GOV2 is such a great little piece of gear soundwise, but build quality wise not so much, and I'm disappointed that this is my second one and it is failing again. I'm very very gentle with my gear and take great care of it, so I have no clue why it has started to break down.

 

[Raketen]

Balanced out sound warmer/smoother to anyone else? Just got a cable in, my first time using any sort of balanced out, wouldn't have expected change in genera sound, though it's a little tough to compare head to head vs single ended by the time i switch the cable over

 

[xkonfuzed]

To me the balanced output actually made my HD650's a touch brighter.