[Bay Jingles]

Which headphone/IEM would you be using with the V30 or HiBy?

Hidizs Mermaid MS2.

 

[Earl of Bouillon]

Hidizs Mermaid MS2.

Balanced 2-pin cables aren't too expensive, probably around $20-30 depending on where you get them so it could be worth it to give it a try. I can't speak on how the sound improvement would be though since I've never heard those IEMs before.

 

[Dannemand]

Thanks. It was a very detailed and technical explanation. But my technical knowledge is not enough. For this reason, I find it difficult to understand what you have written. Which one is better for harmonic distortion? Does being a quad or double have an effect on this? HiBy dual DAC, LG quad DAC. As far as I understand HiBy is better for 16 / 44.1 files. There are approximately 3600 files and all of them are 16 / 44.1 FLAC files. Actually, the reason why I ask this is that if there is not a huge difference in quality between them, the V30 seems more logical.

I apologize. I didn't mean to be overly technical, but I tend to do that sometimes.

Essentially, all LG Quad DAC phones have an issue with 16/44 tracks (like your FLAC files) being played through the Android Mixer, which causes artifacts that can be audible, particularly on sensitive IEMs/headphones. The player apps UAPP and Neutron work around it, but other player apps don't (Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon, Spotify etc). When used with UAPP or Neutron, the V30 sounds awesome and is a fantastic DAP.

V30 has a single ESS 9218p DAC chip -- called Quad DAC by LG marketing because internally it uses four DAC modules to reduce noise and distortion. I see now the HiBy R3 Pro Saber has Dual 9218p DAC chips. These are the same "Quad DACs" as in the V30, but one for each channel (balanced signals). So in that respect the R3 beats the V30 -- at least with balanced output . Assuming the rest of its hardware implementation is good, and assuming it doesn't have the Android Mixer issue, it has the potential to be a better DAP than V30. I cannot say whether it actually delivers on this potential.

Of course V30 was a great phone and general Android device in its days -- and it is still my daily driver. But there will never be more updates for it. And depending on your exact V30 model, you may get problems using it for phone calls in the near future, when network carriers start turning off their 3G networks. V30 does have Voice-over-LTE, but different models only support it for a few carriers.

So you have to weigh these pros and cons. And you have to do some listening to compare the two devices.

I am afraid that is the closest I can get to giving you a firm recommendation. Particularly since I have no first-hand HiBy experience

 

[Bay Jingles]

Balanced 2-pin cables aren't too expensive, probably around $20-30 depending on where you get them so it could be worth it to give it a try. I can't speak on how the sound improvement would be though since I've never heard those IEMs before.

This was true in the past. But this is not the case for today's Turkey.

2006
1 USD = 1.3 TRY

2021
1 USD = 8.5 TRY

So our money is eight times worthless. We're giving 250 liras for a $ 30 cable here. You can buy a very good headset for the same price (250). We pay over 2000 lira for a $ 250 headset. So even for very cheap things we have to pay a fortune here. Moreover, these are tax-free prices. I bought the $ 200 HiBy R3 Pro Saber for 1500 TRY. You can buy a very high level DAP for a price of 1500 units. However, we can only get an entry-level DAP for this price.

I got the balanced cable though. I will try and share my ideas.

 

[Jenz]

The headphones make the music! I have a LG G7 Thinq and I am very satisfied.
It's a shame that LG won't manufacture smartphones in the future.
It's questionable whether you can hear big differences to the LG V30 with a separate DAP.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Here is my take. I use my LG G8, and previously my G7 to stream Bluetooth to my main system where the DAC is either the Gustard X16 or an SMSL M200. In either case both DACs go balanced into a really technically competent NAD M3. From there I listen through some pretty nice speakers (Monitor Audio Platinum 200) supported by two SVS SB 2000 Pro subs. My point in listing the gear isn't to brag, it is to make a point which follows.

Even if Android is doing anything through the mixer, I use Onkyo HF Player used to use Neutron, I sure as heck can't hear any issues with really good gear using really well recorded music. I ripped my CD collection to Flac or Apple Lossless and the recordings I gravitate to are very good and I know them well. This idea that somehow Android is polluting the audio stream seems like it is being taken way out of proportion. I am extremely confident that in multiple trial, level matched blind listening tests the vast majority of people will not hear any difference through Android or on Android but bypassed.

I have seen people show technical explanations based on measurements, but an effect can be both measurable and inaudible, so providing evidence of measurability is not evidence that the effect is audible in any practical sense. There may be very specific exceptions, but if these exceptional cases are just that, exceptional, is it practically relevant for the majority of situations where nothing negative in the audio output from Android will be result from the mixer?

 

[Dannemand]

@Sonic Defender:

The artifacts caused by Android Mixer on LG phones are very distinct and easy to reproduce using the right tracks and sensitive IEMS. You will find plenty of discussion about them in this thread and the other V30 thread I linked above, including tracks to use and sound files demonstrating what they sound like.

Obviously these artifacts won't affect sound when playing through Bluetooth -- although there you will have other demonstrable quality degradations, as you and I have discussed in the past. Some people can clearly hear those while others can not. I completely believe and respect your claim that you can not.

 

[jagwap]

I apologize. I didn't mean to be overly technical, but I tend to do that sometimes.

Essentially, all LG Quad DAC phones have an issue with 16/44 tracks (like your FLAC files) being played through the Android Mixer, which causes artifacts that can be audible, particularly on sensitive IEMs/headphones. The player apps UAPP and Neutron work around it, but other player apps don't (Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon, Spotify etc). When used with UAPP or Neutron, the V30 sounds awesome and is a fantastic DAP.

V30 has a single ESS 9218p DAC chip -- called Quad DAC by LG marketing because internally it uses four DAC modules to reduce noise and distortion. I see now the HiBy R3 Pro Saber has Dual 9218p DAC chips. These are the same "Quad DACs" as in the V30, but one for each channel (balanced signals). So in that respect the R3 beats the V30 -- at least with balanced output . Assuming the rest of its hardware implementation is good, and assuming it doesn't have the Android Mixer issue, it has the potential to be a better DAP than V30. I cannot say whether it actually delivers on this potential.

Of course V30 was a great phone and general Android device in its days -- and it is still my daily driver. But there will never be more updates for it. And depending on your exact V30 model, you may get problems using it for phone calls in the near future, when network carriers start turning off their 3G networks. V30 does have Voice-over-LTE, but different models only support it for a few carriers.

So you have to weigh these pros and cons. And you have to do some listening to compare the two devices.

I am afraid that is the closest I can get to giving you a firm recommendation. Particularly since I have no first-hand HiBy experience

Another simple fix is to put your FLAC music through a music re-encoder to 24 bit FLAC with no added dither. The file is identical, but the 24 bit flag on the data makes the LG music app send the data raw to the QUAD DAC.

 

[Dannemand]

Another simple fix is to put your FLAC music through a music re-encoder to 24 bit FLAC with no added dither. The file is identical, but the 24 bit flag on the data makes the LG music app send the data raw to the QUAD DAC.

Yes, good point. That will work too, as long as the music player knows how to use Direct path (not all do). 24-bit isn't a guarantee of bypassing the Mixer, it's just a prerequisite. Of course this won't work with streaming services, but it will work for a library of FLAC files.

I just recommend using UAPP, which will play any file you throw at it, locally or from the network, AND stream from Qobuz or Tidal -- all bitperfect through Direct path. Of course unless you choose to use some of its EQ or other features that break bitperfect.

There is actually one curious exception to this inability to play 16/44 through Direct path: if the MQA flag is set (the mgadummy effect) 16/44 tracks CAN be routed routed through Direct path. I assume LG and/or MQA discovered that 16/44 MQA files would lose their provenance because they always went through the mixer. And so they fixed it. But the idiots only fixed it for 16/44 MQA tracks, not for all 16/44 tracks.

I previously posted about this weirdness here in the V30 Music apps, tips and tricks thread.

 

[csglinux]

I want to first say a huge big thanks to @kkugel for the recommendation on the HiBy FC3. Secondly, I need to offer profuse apologies to @kkugel for my earlier cynicism, skepticism and dyslexia (I initially misread the FC3's specs - it uses a newer ES9281Pro DAC, not the ES9218Pro that's in the V30).

You can see how it stacks up against LG's quad-DAC phones here:
https://www.hypethesonics.com/dapti-database/

And there's further discussion of the results here:
https://www.hypethesonics.com/hiby-fc3-minihype

There are a couple of reasons why there are multiple sets of results in the link above. The FC3's output power varies with load (in much the same way the LG phones' outputs do) and, depending on your app and settings, you have a choice of bit perfect (e.g. via UAPP) or not. The 'not' part is interesting, because even when using something like native Qobuz or Tidal apps, you can avoid audible up-sampling artifacts on this device by raising the digital volume control on the phone to maximum and then adjusting the final output volume on the FC3.

To say these results were unexpected would be the understatement of the decade. The FC3 is the best-measuring device we've tested. I write this with the full expectation and understanding that people simply won't believe these results. However, repeated tests have consistently confirmed that on our test vectors of both program simulation noise (BS EN 50332-1) and actual music, this dongle out-performs everything, including the Chord DAVE.

As much as I hate dongles, I have to admit this device is awesome. Even if you own the already excellent LG V60, the FC3 can significantly improve the experience of listening to third party apps at low volumes on sensitive IEMs.

I have no affiliation with HiBy or ESS, nobody is paying us to write about it, and nobody sent us an FC3 in 'exchange for our honest, unbiased review'. But the FC3 is an easy recommendation. If you're short on cash, sell your dedicated DAP to fund it; you won't be missing anything in terms of audio quality

 

[kkugel]

I want to first say a huge big thanks to @kkugel for the recommendation on the HiBy FC3. Secondly, I need to offer profuse apologies to @kkugel for my earlier cynicism, skepticism and dyslexia (I initially misread the FC3's specs - it uses a newer ES9281Pro DAC, not the ES9218Pro that's in the V30).

You can see how it stacks up against LG's quad-DAC phones here:
https://www.hypethesonics.com/dapti-database/

And there's further discussion of the results here:
https://www.hypethesonics.com/hiby-fc3-minihype

There are a couple of reasons why there are multiple sets of results in the link above. The FC3's output power varies with load (in much the same way the LG phones' outputs do) and, depending on your app and settings, you have a choice of bit perfect (e.g. via UAPP) or not. The 'not' part is interesting, because even when using something like native Qobuz or Tidal apps, you can avoid audible up-sampling artifacts on this device by raising the digital volume control on the phone to maximum and then adjusting the final output volume on the FC3.

To say these results were unexpected would be the understatement of the decade. The FC3 is the best-measuring device we've tested. I write this with the full expectation and understanding that people simply won't believe these results. However, repeated tests have consistently confirmed that on our test vectors of both program simulation noise (BS EN 50332-1) and actual music, this dongle out-performs everything, including the Chord DAVE.

As much as I hate dongles, I have to admit this device is awesome. Even if you own the already excellent LG V60, the FC3 can significantly improve the experience of listening to third party apps at low volumes on sensitive IEMs.

I have no affiliation with HiBy or ESS, nobody is paying us to write about it, and nobody sent us an FC3 in 'exchange for our honest, unbiased review'. But the FC3 is an easy recommendation. If you're short on cash, sell your dedicated DAP to fund it; you won't be missing anything in terms of audio quality

Haha and I thought I was crazy for honestly saying it sounds better than my 300$ DX7s! Seems like there really is something to it.

 

[3Putter]

Where does one find a Hiby FC3?

 

[jeanft]

Where does one find a Hiby FC3?

 

[jeanft]

Using a LG V30 with UAPP, I have created different profiles with the equalizer for jazz, classical... I own a Hiby R3 Pro as well, which is pretty useless for streaming out of the house, I guess if you use your own files, it will be OK. The overall sound presentation with the balanced signal is pretty nice with the Hiby, I will say a bit more on the warmish side than the V30, I use it with a Monolith Liquid headphone amp in a 2nd system or through Klipsch Forte 2 speakers with a Teac integrated amp. At the end, I use the phone most of the time for obvious reasons, and it's always charged.

 

[runssical]

Does anyone think the V30 is worth buying today as a daily phone? Network would be Tmo.