[howdy]

So I got to demo one today at a T-Mobile store.

First off, the T-Mobile clerk was the least helpful person I've ever met in service. They had no music on the device and the service person insisted that the wide-angle photo mode was the biggest differentiator for the device. He had no idea about the sound quality or DAC stuff.

My first impression: Way too quiet with my P-3.

You must like it loud, i could not turn it all the way up as it was to loud with my PM3s.

 

[jagwap]

You must like it loud, i could not turn it all the way up as it was to loud with my PM3s.

It depends on the music used. Most releases in popular music since 1996 have been compressed so heavily they are usually >6dB louder than well mastered stuff. Then on top of that classical is much quieter on average.

The PM3s are not very efficient and the 0.45V rms the V20 gives out in low impedance mode will not be enough for some music. External mode is 7dB louder and should be, with high impedance mode plenty at 12dB higher than low.

Have a look at the loudness database http://dr.loudness-war.info/ to see what I mean. The music industry has been ruining mastering for decades. Go out and seek better versions of your favourite music and give yourself a treat (hires is no guarantee, but vinyl can be)

 

[howdy]

It depends on the music used. Most releases in popular music since 1996 have been compressed so heavily they are usually >6dB louder than well mastered stuff. Then on top of that classical is much quieter on average.

The PM3s are not very efficient and the 0.45V rms the V20 gives out in low impedance mode will not be enough for some music. External mode is 7dB louder and should beb with high impedance mode plenty at 12dB higher than low.

Have a look at the loudness database to see what I mean. The music industry has been ruining mastering for decades. Go out and seek better versions of your favourite music and give yourself a treat (hires is no guarantee, but vinyl can be)

I agree with what you say but I was using Tidal and everyone perceives things differently. I dont like to listen to music real loud which can play a role in this.

 

[RockStar2005]

It depends on the music used. Most releases in popular music since 1996 have been compressed so heavily they are usually >6dB louder than well mastered stuff. Then on top of that classical is much quieter on average.

The PM3s are not very efficient and the 0.45V rms the V20 gives out in low impedance mode will not be enough for some music. External mode is 7dB louder and should be, with high impedance mode plenty at 12dB higher than low.

Have a look at the loudness database http://dr.loudness-war.info/ to see what I mean. The music industry has been ruining mastering for decades. Go out and seek better versions of your favourite music and give yourself a treat (hires is no guarantee, but vinyl can be)

 
Very good post. Yes, Hi-Res is NO guarantee, but I'd say 95-99% of the time it's better than even the CD versions of albums/songs. 
 
I don't always agree with Dr. Loudness Just b/c the DR is on the low side doesn't mean the album still won't sound INCREDIBLE. 

 

[amstel78]

   
What are your settings for Poweramp Alpha? I just downloaded the Alpha version and I see that it's outputting at 48kHz. Not that I'm complaining by any means.

Alpha 703/704 does not currently support the V20 DAC in outputting hi-res >48 kHz audio.  Hoping in the next iteration, full support is implemented.  I've read others stating that the phone isn't capable of outputting anything higher than 48 kHz.  I hope that's incorrect.

 

[silverre]

Does any1 know how to use the volume keys to increase volume by 1 step each time? Increasing 5steps a time is very inconvenient

And the default player does not support cue am i forced to buy the neutron player?? As i read that power amp alpha does not output more than 48khz

 

[gr8soundz]

Just rechecked LG's site and nowhere does it specify hi-res audio for the V20. The ESS Quad DAC is specified several times though.
 
If the 48khz limit is true, perhaps they did it to improve battery life. So, like some other daps, the V20 can play hi-res files but maybe not at their native bit rates.
 

 

[RockStar2005]

  Just rechecked LG's site and nowhere does it specify hi-res audio for the V20. The ESS Quad DAC is specified several times though.
 
If the 48khz limit is true, perhaps they did it to improve battery life. So, like some other daps, the V20 can play hi-res files but maybe not at their native bit rates.
 

 
It doesn't matter anyway. It's all about the source. If your source music was/is Hi-Res, it will sound the same at 48kHz as it would at 96kHz. What matters is how well the amp & DAC on the V20 process the music its given, and it DOES do it extremely well, esp for a smartphone. The higher numbers are just marketing nonsense. As long as you stay ABOVE mp3-level, it's all good. 

 

[Axesd]

I happen to be a sales associate at a retail T-Mobile store. No phone in store will have any music in them for demo. The demo itself is provided by the manufacturer. As far as for the lack of knowledge with the associate, I think we all should get to the middle that chasing for SQ is only a small margin of group vs. the entire average consumer group. We are all a niche group just being on here, so I will say don't expect any of them to talk to you on further detail with DAC and all type of words/measurement etc... 
 
 
While I am here, I am selling a brand new sealed LG V20 right now. Please PM me if you are interested! 

 

[gr8soundz]

 
It doesn't matter anyway. It's all about the source. If your source music was/is Hi-Res, it will sound the same at 48kHz as it would at 96kHz. What matters is how well the amp & DAC on the V20 process the music its given, and it DOES do it extremely well, esp for a smartphone. The higher numbers are just marketing nonsense. As long as you stay ABOVE mp3-level, it's all good. 

 
All that is true but I only mentioned it since this seems to be a change LG made vs. the V10.
 

 

[jagwap]

So I got to demo one today at a T-Mobile store.

First off, the T-Mobile clerk was the least helpful person I've ever met in service. They had no music on the device and the service person insisted that the wide-angle photo mode was the biggest differentiator for the device. He had no idea about the sound quality or DAC stuff.

My first impression: Way too quiet with my P-3.

Very good post. Yes, Hi-Res is NO guarantee, but I'd say 95-99% of the time it's better than even the CD versions of albums/songs. 

I don't always agree with Dr. Loudness Just b/c the DR is on the low side doesn't mean the album still won't sound INCREDIBLE. 

I don't agree with the 95-99% as many CDs from the 80's had great mastering, particularly the warner german releases and MOFI MFSL. However that probably depends on the genres we like.

However the fact that >48kHz doesn't matter? It is far from the most important factor. Performance and recording are THE most important, but Bob Stuart and MQA have a point. The "la la la fingers in my ears it cannot matter" sound science bunch are like moon landing denyers to me. It's not the frequency that matters it's the timing.

Timing is a huge percentage of music, and the ear is more sensitive to it than level.

 

[milford30]

  so with this setting you mean there will be no down sampling in poweramp alpha
 
with those settings poweramp rocks and sounds even better than neutron

 
If you read the mojo or uapp thread, they avoid sampling like the plague, up sampling or down sampling is suppose to be bad (I don't yet have the time to test it in uapp) due to software introduce distortion/noise. Ideally you want the output sampling rate to be the same as your music files, which are usually 44.1khz, but android forces 48khz upsampling, I don't know of any popular players that does down sampling from 48khz. There is a bit perfect option and force 48khz in uapp that I can test when I have time. From a mathematical standpoint interpolation is generally bad idea, best case is keeping the graph info the same.
 
Unless of course you need higher frequency response for Fourier Transform (sampling rate lower than nyquest freq), there has been Japanese research that frequencies higher than 20khz (higher then human hearing threshold) does make a difference, which requires special speakers, but I have not tried it, those songs/music pieces will need greater then 48khz.

 

[eio]

nevermind

 

[FSTOP]

Does any1 know how to use the volume keys to increase volume by 1 step each time? Increasing 5steps a time is very inconvenient

And the default player does not support cue

am i forced to buy the neutron player?? As i read that power amp alpha does not output more than 48khz

You CAN change the steps (volume levels) using some players, such as PowerAmp Alpha build. 
In PA alpha, go to:  Settings>Audio>AdvancedTweaks>VolumeLevels(Experimental)
Here you will get a panel with selections for SystemDefault, 30, 50, 76,100. Even the 50/76 selection will get you in the 1 to 2 step range with each push of the VOL up or down. I leave it at 76, as the levels are accurate enough to get the exact dBs i want without many multiple pushes. 
Also, if you enable the VolumePanel selection, the poweramp volume pot will display using the devices volume up/down keys. You can hold down the up/down buttons to get the pot where you want it.
 
I agree with others' posts as to the above 48kHz sampling rate. Not sure that many would/could notice it without the highest possible recording quality, player, etc.
i have 96kHz sampling on my studio setup with high-end monitors in a controlled room--the actual recording, mastering, compression, etc is much more noticable than higher sampling rates. Now it doesn't hurt to CAPTURE a recording in its highest possible resolutions, even knowing that noone will ever HEAR the difference in the final consumer output. Just as shooting photos with the most Megapixels doesnt hurt, but the sharpness of the lens optics, etc are generally more important to the output...
 
Will mention that PowerAmp Alpha did/does have an Experimental Hi-res output that could be enabled for some devices, i used it for the Note7 and it did sound better, but mostly because the Note7's regular sound output is nowhere near the quality of the V20's. 
 
In audio, every link in the chain is important to getting the highest SQ output, as well as the careful MATCHING of components that work well together.

 

[RockStar2005]

   
All that is true but I only mentioned it since this seems to be a change LG made vs. the V10.
 

 
Ok cool.