[RockStar2005]

I don't agree with the 95-99% as many CDs from the 80's had great mastering, particularly the warner german releases and MOFI MFSL. However that probably depends on the genres we like.

However the fact that >48kHz doesn't matter? It is far from the most important factor. Performance and recording are THE most important, but Bob Stuart and MQA have a point. The "la la la fingers in my ears it cannot matter" sound science bunch are like moon landing denyers to me. It's not the frequency that matters it's the timing.

Timing is a huge percentage of music, and the ear is more sensitive to it than level.

 
Yeah. From my experience, the Hi-Res version is better than the CD version that often, but I've only done a handful of comparisons. I know that the Hi-Res version isn't always better than the CD version, I just know it USUALLY is. lol Not much in this "arena" is ever 100%, is it? Too much subjectivity. lol
 
There def were some Hi-Res albums I DIDN'T get because I'd read some poor reviews for them, and instead bought other versions that I could find in their place. Like I wanted to buy the 1st Rage Against The Machine album in Hi-Res, which just came out this year. But I checked and found some rather poor reviews on it. So instead I found that Amazon had a well-reviewed 20th Anniversary Remaster CD on sale for only like $8. I bought it, and it most definitely IS an improvement over the original! Most of the tracks had a bit too much bass added though, but that was quickly resolved by applying my own custom EQ ("Rock" EQ preset on Poweramp with the bass EQ bands turned slightly down). But the extra clarity and the album sounding more engaging than ever was well worth it! I simply ripped the CD and that was that. 
 
Could you elaborate more on "timing"? Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that 48kHz+ music somehow is "timed" differently than sub-48kHz music, and therefore sounds better? Not following. Thanks. 

 

[HipHopScribe]

So I got to demo one today at a T-Mobile store.

First off, the T-Mobile clerk was the least helpful person I've ever met in service. They had no music on the device and the service person insisted that the wide-angle photo mode was the biggest differentiator for the device. He had no idea about the sound quality or DAC stuff.

My first impression: Way too quiet with my P-3.

 
Did you get it into aux mode? You have to plug the cable into the phone first, without the headphone connected, then connect the headphones to the cable

 

[amstel78]

If the LG V10 can output >48 kHz but the V20 cannot, I would be very surprised.  To me, I can't tell the difference past 48 kHz anyway, but I'm sure it'd be important for those who strive to play bit perfect music.  Nonetheless, the ESS DAC in the V20 should physically be able to output up to 384 kHz if I read the spec sheets correctly.
 
"The ES9218’s integrated DAC supports up to 32-bit 384 kHz PCM and DSD512 data in master or slave timing modes."
 
Link: http://www.esstech.com/index.php?cID=419

 

[jagwap]

Yeah. From my experience, the Hi-Res version is better than the CD version that often, but I've only done a handful of comparisons. I know that the Hi-Res version isn't always better than the CD version, I just know it USUALLY is. lol Not much in this "arena" is ever 100%, is it? Too much subjectivity. lol

There def were some Hi-Res albums I DIDN'T get because I'd read some poor reviews for them, and instead bought other versions that I could find in their place. Like I wanted to buy the 1st Rage Against The Machine album in Hi-Res, which just came out this year. But I checked and found some rather poor reviews on it. So instead I found that Amazon had a well-reviewed 20th Anniversary Remaster CD on sale for only like $8. I bought it, and it most definitely IS an improvement over the original! Most of the tracks had a bit too much bass added though, but that was quickly resolved by applying my own custom EQ ("Rock" EQ preset on Poweramp with the bass EQ bands turned slightly down). But the extra clarity and the album sounding more engaging than ever was well worth it! I simply ripped the CD and that was that. 

Could you elaborate more on "timing"? Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that 48kHz+ music somehow is "timed" differently than sub-48kHz music, and therefore sounds better? Not following. Thanks. 

You really have to try the new SACD of Rage Against the Machine on Audio Fidelity. It is far better. Steve Hoffman mastered http://www.audiofidelity.net/product/rage-against-machine-rage-against-machine

Apodizing filters are known to improve the sound of DACs, but their gentle roll off can cause in band response and phase issues. Not serious maybe, but higher than 48kHz pushes this out of range.

On the timing issue, lower sampling rate can blur close transients that higher sampling rates can differentiate.

MQA tries to reduce this as well to a higher standard than 192kHz, and they make this the main reason for higher sample rates: http://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-questions-and-answers#R25sT4A16YvoBgDK.97

The pages on temporal blur get into it with some pretty diagrams.

So I'm saying hires is not about playing higher than 20kHz. It's about playing audio band more accurately.

 

[RockStar2005]

You really have to try the new SACD of Rage Against the Machine on Audio Fidelity. It is far better. Steve Hoffman mastered http://www.audiofidelity.net/product/rage-against-machine-rage-against-machine

Apodizing filters are known to improve the sound of DACs, but their gentle roll off can cause in band response and phase issues. Not serious maybe, but higher than 48kHz pushes this out of range.

On the timing issue, lower sampling rate can blur close transients that higher sampling rates can differentiate.

MQA tries to reduce this as well to a higher standard than 192kHz, and they make this the main reason for higher sample rates: http://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-questions-and-answers#R25sT4A16YvoBgDK.97

The pages on temporal blur get into it with some pretty diagrams.

So I'm saying hires is not about playing higher than 20kHz. It's about playing audio band more accurately.

 
jagwap, 
 
I'm VERY well aware of that SACD of the 1st Rage album. lol Unfortunately, I don't have an SACD player, and a service I found online to convert them to digital files for you has a $50 minimum. Sux. lol So I went with the next best thing. It would be nice if someone on here could just offer to convert them and not have such a high dollar minimum (and not require me to have to pay to ship a flash or external hard drive to them and back to me too). lol The best would be if like these Hi-Res sites I go to would simply offer it in DSD. But who knows if and when that'll happen? lol But the 20th Anniversary Edition I got does sound NOTICEABLY better than the original 1992 CD. 
 
Apodizing filters? Never heard of that. I dunno. When I did my own ABX tests of CD vs. Hi-Res, I couldn't tell the difference, and I have pretty strong hearing. 
 
Ok. Again, I dunno. lol 
 
But you are saying that playing it above 20kHz also makes it sound more accurate? If so, that isn't what I've experienced. But I guess you can't expect everyone on here to agree all the time. lol

 

[disastermouse]

Did you get it into aux mode? You have to plug the cable into the phone first, without the headphone connected, then connect the headphones to the cable

We had to use Pandora and I didn't bring anything to 'trick' the phone into playing at high impedance because, realistically, if I wanted to carry a dongle around for my phone to play headphone audio correctly, I'd just stick with iPhone.

 

[jagwap]

jagwap, 

I'm VERY well aware of that SACD of the 1st Rage album. lol Unfortunately, I don't have an SACD player, and a service I found online to convert them to digital files for you has a $50 minimum. Sux. lol So I went with the next best thing. It would be nice if someone on here could just offer to convert them and not have such a high dollar minimum (and not require me to have to pay to ship a flash or external hard drive to them and back to me too). lol The best would be if like these Hi-Res sites I go to would simply offer it in DSD. But who knows if and when that'll happen? lol But the 20th Anniversary Edition I got does sound NOTICEABLY better than the original 1992 CD. 

Apodizing filters? Never heard of that. I dunno. When I did my own ABX tests of CD vs. Hi-Res, I couldn't tell the difference, and I have pretty strong hearing. 

Ok. Again, I dunno. lol 

But you are saying that playing it above 20kHz also makes it sound more accurate? If so, that isn't what I've experienced. But I guess you can't expect everyone on here to agree all the time. lol

There are *cough* copies online of the SACD, 44.1kHz and 88.2kHz 24b, and it has a Redbook compatable CD layer which will play and rip on a CD player.

Apodizing is used by ayre acoustics, meridian and pono amongst may others. It is a real advance in digital fitering.

Hey it's subtle. But having the best posible available should be our goal. I don't need it on my phone, but I want it in my library.

 

[WayTooCrazy]

We had to use Pandora and I didn't bring anything to 'trick' the phone into playing at high impedance because, realistically, if I wanted to carry a dongle around for my phone to play headphone audio correctly, I'd just stick with iPhone.

As much as i hate to agree with you, i have to agree with you.

 

[RockStar2005]

There are *cough* copies online of the SACD, 44.1kHz and 88.2kHz 24b, and it has a Redbook compatable CD layer which will play and rip on a CD player.

Apodizing is used by ayre acoustics, meridian and pono amongst may others. It is a real advance in digital fitering.

Hey it's subtle. But having the best posible available should be our goal. I don't need it on my phone, but I want it in my library.

 
LOL *cough" I already TRIED that route, and couldn't find ANY of the SACD one. So if you have any *cough* suggested search criteria I can use, I'm ALL ears?! lol 
 
I read somewhere that the Hybrid SACDs (vs. regular SACDs) aren't so easy to rip as the regular ones, so not sure. And this one's a Hybrid SACD. 
 
The album I REALLY want though is the 1st Audioslave album in a format called "Dual Disc". It got a very limited release along with other albums about 13-14 years ago. I LOVE that first album more than anything that Rage or Soundgarden ever did (and I love them too), so I'd kill to have it. But it's impossible to find. I read somewhere someone sold a copy on eBay in 2012 for like $100. lol It's a CD layer & DVD layer combo. Check out the Notes section (all of it) on this page for more info. Esp this part "Entire album in 20bit 48 kHz sound on DVD side. Has been termed a demonstration quality audiophile release." 

 
Ok cool. I guess if I actually noticed a difference I would be so inclined. But I don't. lol And I've tried several times to hear a difference via ABX and regular testing, but can't, yet I can hear a lot of things other ppl I know can't in headphone music listening. 

 

[gordec]

It's pretty impressive what LG has achieved with the V20. The imaging is the best I have heard in a mobile device. That includes AK300, Cowon P1, Onkyo DP-X1, and FiiO X7. When you have money and experience, it's much cheaper to develop a quality dap out of a phone. Only negative for me is the hissing with sensitive IEMs, but it's tolerable. 

 

[WayTooCrazy]

It's pretty impressive what LG has achieved with the V20. The imaging is the best I have heard in a mobile device. That includes AK300, Cowon P1, Onkyo DP-X1, and FiiO X7. When you have money and experience, it's much cheaper to develop a quality dap out of a phone. Only negative for me is the hissing with sensitive IEMs, but it's tolerable. 

iFi Match or whatever it is called is supposed to help with that i believe. How sensitive are your IEMs?

 

[amstel78]

Lot of people coughing in this thread. Hope y'all got your flu shots.

 

[eio]

 
Only negative for me is the hissing with sensitive IEMs, but it's tolerable. 

that would be a major issue, does the hissing still present when usb cable is not connected? how sensitive is your IEM?

 

[warrior1975]

Lot of people coughing in this thread. Hope y'all got your flu shots.

I surmise you don't think the V20 is that good?

 

[gordec]

  that would be a major issue, does the hissing still present when usb cable is not connected? how sensitive is your IEM?

I use Westone ES60. It hissed with FiiO x7. Cowon and AK300 are both pitch black. I have the Ifi iematch coming this weekend. Will get you updated. It hisses with airplane mode everything turned off. It's not that bad.