[SB]

Its is funny that the high end audio in staying FAR away from this, they are the types who think if they ignore the facts everything will go back to normal. High end audio know's their products are a scam, why else would they charge huge money for something that is 100% subjective?

 

[linuxworks]

high end audio is like religion. people have strong opinions and you better not let *facts* get in the way of any of them!

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FauxReal /img/forum/go_quote.gif While Dr. Ken's review raises some eyebrows, I think the most damning part about this whole debacle is that Lexicon and THX have both removed any mention of this player being THX certified from their websites. Though you can still see other websites mentioning this tidbit and pictures of the player still have the THX logo on them. I wonder if all new players will have that logo buffed off?

Does this qualify for class-action lawsuit? Pretty funny what some people think THX stands for:

Quote:

THX certification is like having a high perrformance sports car that has been fine tuned by one of the world's best mechanics.

And imagine, buying such a sports car and you got a Honda civic stuffed in a sports car body.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pretty funny what some people think THX stands for:

It stands for "Tomlinson Holman's Experiment" and from the first movie George Lucas made called THX-1138.
Although years ago I read it actually stood for Tomlinson Holman's Experience.

 

[sahwnfras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif High end audio know's their products are a scam, why else would they charge huge money for something that is 100% subjective?

This is what you do not understand. People do buy high end audio.

Audio and anything people enjoy let it be food or cars or whatever your thing is, its all subjective. Everyone is different, everyone has a different perspective. Some people like cars and spend all their money on that, some people spend all their money on audio.

But what you really need to do is talk to someone in the industry a salesman, or a sales rep or something. And for every brand and product there is always something different that they do to try to acheive better sound. There are so many different technologies in audio and so many different philosophies on it. And yes its all subjective, why do you think there would be so many different technologies out. If it was just a science why wouldnt they just make the perfect audio system.

I just dont believe you understand this industry, and i have no idea what you get out of this. I think you must be very happy with your set up, but dont go trying to say that high end audio is a scam because it can defiently be worth it. I dont really understand how you could say that a $1000 system could sound as good as a $20000 system.

I by no means conduct what Lexicon has done, thats just bad I can't believe they didnt even upgrade the power supply or anything.

 

[anetode]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just dont believe you understand this industry [...] I dont really understand how you could say that a $1000 system could sound as good as a $20000 system.

So it seems clear that, if anything, lack of understanding is endemic to hi-fi

 

[googleborg]

that link is truely enlightening, thanks for this! i don't know who dr ken is, or even who 'Jerry Del Colliano' is or why he is so fervent, but his [jdc] rebuttals are a good study of often used diversionary methods you see used a lot in other areas personally speaking, and many will disagree with me, i've long held magazines and reviewers in contempt, the plain economic truth, to me, is they are glorified catalogues and salespeople who speak in an esoteric audio lexicon trying to sell products that scarcely differ from each other for ever more money.

 

[tosehee]

$3000 for cosmetic match. Good Lord~!

 

[SB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras But what you really need to do is talk to someone in the industry a salesman, or a sales rep or something. And for every brand and product there is always something different that they do to try to acheive better sound. There are so many different technologies in audio and so many different philosophies on it. And yes its all subjective, why do you think there would be so many different technologies out. If it was just a science why wouldnt they just make the perfect audio system. I just dont believe you understand this industry, and i have no idea what you get out of this. I think you must be very happy with your set up, but dont go trying to say that high end audio is a scam because it can defiently be worth it. I dont really understand how you could say that a $1000 system could sound as good as a $20000 system.

And they can think what they want but I dislike the fact that they are always saying their gear is better without providing any proof to back up their claims.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif And they can think what they want but I dislike the fact that they are always saying their gear is better without providing any proof to back up their claims.

I get bored of your complaining.

 

[sahwnfras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif And they can think what they want but I dislike the fact that they are always saying their gear is better without providing any proof to back up their claims.

What proof other than listening to it can you give? Number dont mean anything in the end, as long as it sounds good.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras /img/forum/go_quote.gif What proof other than listening to it can you give? Number dont mean anything in the end, as long as it sounds good.

Numbers may mean something to me if every known measurement produces numbers that are exactly the same, especially if it obviously sounds different in the same chain.

I wouldn't argue that all high-end audio is a scam, but I would definitely not argue that the Lexicon BD-30 where the only thing that makes the product high end is an overlapping faceplate and new pricetag is not.

 

[project86]

The comments have been re-enabled on the original review. I just finished reading through the entire thing, and it was very entertaining. Of note was the response given that the reviewer owns some exceedingly expensive gear, which somehow makes him qualified. Also funny was the fact (mentioned multple times even) that he has reviewed "nearly 12" Blu-Ray players in his career. How near is he to having 12 reviews under his belt? 11.6?

The problem is that this changes nothing. In this very thread we have people saying "I get bored of your complaining" and the always classic "What proof other than listening to it can you give?" This will blow over and business as usual will continue. Magazines and websites will continue to review the exact products that they sell, either directly or through ad revenue. And at some point someone will reference a review from a known-to-be-dishonest publication like those and say "see, this one has blacker blacks I told you so!" And the cycle will keep on repeating.

 

[haloxt]

project86, when I said I was bored of someone's complaining, I was referring specifically to his posts which add nothing to the conversation. I've read several different forums on this topic and I must say, this thread is by far the least informative because this forum is full of people who want to constantly take jabs at people who "believe in hi-fi". Say it once not make it 3/5 of the posts in this thread. Yes you think there's scamming in hi-fi , thank you for the info. This isn't some elementary school contest where everyone has to rephrase the same idea a dozen different ways and if yours is the best you'll get a gold star sticker. And no your 11.6 thing doesn't earn you a gold star.

 

[SB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras What proof other than listening to it can you give? Number dont mean anything in the end, as long as it sounds good.

Then do blind or double blind listening tests, oh wait the high end does not want to do those as well? So what do you want to do or what does the high end want to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 The problem is that this changes nothing. In this very thread we have people saying "I get bored of your complaining" and the always classic "What proof other than listening to it can you give?" This will blow over and business as usual will continue. Magazines and websites will continue to review the exact products that they sell, either directly or through ad revenue. And at some point someone will reference a review from a known-to-be-dishonest publication like those and say "see, this one has blacker blacks I told you so!" And the cycle will keep on repeating.

Exactly, this is what the high end does and they have been doing it for a long time. With the internet this scam and other high end scams will not go away, we are in a different time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt project86, when I said I was bored of someone's complaining, I was referring specifically to his posts which add nothing to the conversation. I've read several different forums on this topic and I must say, this thread is by far the least informative because this forum is full of people who want to constantly take jabs at people who "believe in hi-fi". Say it once not make it 3/5 of the posts in this thread. Yes you think there's scamming in hi-fi , thank you for the info. This isn't some elementary school contest where everyone has to rephrase the same idea a dozen different ways and if yours is the best you'll get a gold star sticker. And no your 11.6 thing doesn't earn you a gold star.

So what defence can you offer for high end audio? So far I have not seen much that one can point to and say it is better. Kaleidescape was/is the only company that offered something one could not get without doing it yourself and they did this illegally and can no longer sell their products.