[SB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender Rodriguez /img/forum/go_quote.gif What constitutes fraud in this case is that Lexicon has stated that they had made significant, performance-enhancing changes to the hardware on the Oppo player when they obviously did no such thing.

Welcome to high end audio where NONE of their claims about sounding or looking better have been tested. High end audio and the audiophiles that buy into this scam have a very different way of thinking or lack there of.

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender Rodriguez /img/forum/go_quote.gif What constitutes fraud in this case is that Lexicon has stated that they had made significant, performance-enhancing changes to the hardware on the Oppo player when they obviously did no such thing.

The important thing is Lexicon's representations. The legal definition of fraud (IIRC) is a knowingly false representation of material fact, made for the purpose of inducing performance or forbearance by a third party. It seems as if Lexicon's acts could meet that definition, but it comes down to precisely what representations were made. Claims of good performance, because they rely on subjective terminology, may be difficult to establish as material facts. Also, I assume that Lexicon did not make any representations comparing it's model with the Oppo.

 

[SB]

There should be a set of laws/standards for the audio/video world and subjective claims should not be allowed, even thoe all the subjective claims are so stupid I do not know how anyone can fall for them.

 

[haloxt]

I'm all for the suppression of free speech, but exactly what is subjective about rebadging cd players and doing a 500% markup?

 

[SB]

What? Did you even read the review?

 

[Uri Cohen]

If someone is going to pay that much for a clone they better put improve the analog part (which I presume they didn't).

 

[kool bubba ice]

There is legit high end gear, minus the 25,000 CDPer etc.. This just gives the, high end is BS crowd more ammunition. And in this case, rightfully so. Adding 2,500 to the cost doesn't make it high end. It's the components and R&D behind it. Lex did none of that.. But you have some rich people who buy items like these to impress their friends.. In other words, too much money, they don't know what to do with.. And we been raised to believe that better means more expensive. Lex is counting on this.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif What? Did you even read the review?

I read Dr. Ken's review, if that is what you are referring to, but I fail to see why you think laws to limit what he said are desirable. Only an idiot is going to fall for that review after reading the link in the first post. I do think laws should be passed so companies like Lexicon can't rebadge products and sell for 500% increase without their buyers being aware of the fact.

 

[Double F]

10 years ago the Lexicon mc12 was the best home theater processor available. From that peak Harman has taken them lower and lower. This stunt should be the final nail in the coffin!

 

[Uri Cohen]

So pretty much this is snake-oil right?

 

[Yikes]

I own and plan on having my Oppo BDP83SE modified. A not insignificant aspect of my planned modifications is to have significant chassis strengthening and dampening performed. I have observed fairly significant improvements from chassis dampening of players with similar chassis to the Oppo (Denon's and such). So I have little doubt that the Lexicon could easily sound better than the Oppo due to the much more resonance resistant chassis.

That being said charging $3000 more for a heavier more non-resonant chassis borders on being criminal, or at least exceptionally sleazy. That is if lexicon made no additional improvements (as it appears).

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif There should be a set of laws/standards for the audio/video world and subjective claims should not be allowed, even thoe all the subjective claims are so stupid I do not know how anyone can fall for them.

That would kill the industry. Seriously. Audio runs on hype, reputation and subjective reviews from mostly self-proclaimed "experts."

The good news is that it really isn't that difficult to sniff out the snakeoil and see past the BS. When you can do that, you can assemble a wonderful system for surprisingly little.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperDuel /img/forum/go_quote.gif So pretty much this is snake-oil right?

real snakes were spec'd but - at the last minute - and at great expense - 142 mexican whooping llamas were substituted.

those responsible have [not yet] been sacked.

 

[SB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes /img/forum/go_quote.gif I own and plan on having my Oppo BDP83SE modified. A not insignificant aspect of my planned modifications is to have significant chassis strengthening and dampening performed. I have observed fairly significant improvements from chassis dampening of players with similar chassis to the Oppo (Denon's and such). So I have little doubt that the Lexicon could easily sound better than the Oppo due to the much more resonance resistant chassis.

Do you have any objective data to support these claims?

 

[FauxReal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you have any objective data to support these claims?

Seeing as the Lexicon is the Oppo chassis dropped into a Lexicon chassis with a thick faceplate, I bet there is a reduction in the noise. Of course you could also place the same Oppo into a cardboard box and get noise dampening results.

Is a fancy faceplate worth a $3000 markup? It is if you have too much money, never read a review yourself and paid some installer to match all your components so they look nice in the closet.

While Dr. Ken's review raises some eyebrows, I think the most damning part about this whole debacle is that Lexicon and THX have both removed any mention of this player being THX certified from their websites. Though you can still see other websites mentioning this tidbit and pictures of the player still have the THX logo on them. I wonder if all new players will have that logo buffed off?