[n3rdling]

Btw, Steve, THIS is what a 'rebadge' is.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif So what defence can you offer for high end audio? So far I have not seen much that one can point to and say it is better. Kaleidescape was/is the only company that offered something one could not get without doing it yourself and they did this illegally and can no longer sell their products.

Some audio electronics is pretty interesting, the lengths they go to to reduce crosstalk, dirty power, emf, etc. I don't have to make a defense for hi-fi, because I'm not making any claims or out to do any scientific investigation of the topic.

But just for clarification, what qualifies as hi-fi to you? Do you think a $100 dac should sound identical or equivalent in sound quality to a $1000 dac or $10,000 dac? I'd like to know exactly where you stand on the matter, and maybe someone not as lazy as me will take the time to do a DBT to satisfy you.

 

[sahwnfras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then do blind or double blind listening tests, oh wait the high end does not want to do those as well? So what do you want to do or what does the high end want to do? So what defence can you offer for high end audio? So far I have not seen much that one can point to and say it is better. Kaleidescape was/is the only company that offered something one could not get without doing it yourself and they did this illegally and can no longer sell their products.

Well of course you can do a DBT, or a comparison. Thats the only way to really find out, as I said listen.

And for your Kaleidescape comment, what does that really have to do with high end audio? And what about automation/integration companys like AMX & Crestron?


I dont think you really understand the world steve, there is always a high end in anything in life. You have high end cars, wines & liquors, cigars, computers, artwork, paints, woods, houses there is always a high end in anything and people are always trying to make it better. So its always gonna be new and its gonna be expensive, by the time its cheaper to manufacture theres something better out and its expensive.
Then you have high end audio which is always trying to create the purest and cleanest signal, but then you may have different a sound your trying to get out of a peice so you try a different method.
Why do you think theres still tubes out there, because some people love them, but then there are other people who believe other wise. Both will fight to death about whats better, but who is really right at the end of the day.

But really if you believe there is one certain way to acheive sound that is perfect the you should sell this idea, what are you waiting for blow the world away with your knowledge. But untill then atleast show the high end world some respect untill then.

*BTW I dont not conduce what Lexicon has done, for a company like this that used to have a must have processor. This is totally unacceptable, I understand using it as a base and upgrading the circutry or something. But to just drop it in a new case is bad lol.

 

[SB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt Some audio electronics is pretty interesting, the lengths they go to to reduce crosstalk, dirty power, emf, etc. I don't have to make a defense for hi-fi, because I'm not making any claims or out to do any scientific investigation of the topic. But just for clarification, what qualifies as hi-fi to you? Do you think a $100 dac should sound identical or equivalent in sound quality to a $1000 dac or $10,000 dac? I'd like to know exactly where you stand on the matter, and maybe someone not as lazy as me will take the time to do a DBT to satisfy you.

But why would we not see these "lengths" in a simple measurement?

Nothing is hi-fi or high end from a scientific stand point, it either is or is not and with high end audio being 100% subjective we obviously have a problem. Look at the theta DAC's Theta Digital - Generation VIII Series 2 DAC Pre-Amplifier if one can't prove that it is better then I would stick with a $100 DAC.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras Well of course you can do a DBT, or a comparison. Thats the only way to really find out, as I said listen.

And as we have seen in the past basic equipment as in less than $500 sounds identical to very expensive equipment. As of yet I have not read a DBT in which one can hear a difference with high end audio gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras And for your Kaleidescape comment, what does that really have to do with high end audio? And what about automation/integration companys like AMX & Crestron?

If you are not familiar with K or ripping movies then you will not understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras I dont think you really understand the world steve, there is always a high end in anything in life. You have high end cars, wines & liquors, cigars, computers, artwork, paints, woods, houses there is always a high end in anything and people are always trying to make it better. So its always gonna be new and its gonna be expensive, by the time its cheaper to manufacture theres something better out and its expensive. Then you have high end audio which is always trying to create the purest and cleanest signal, but then you may have different a sound your trying to get out of a peice so you try a different method. Why do you think theres still tubes out there, because some people love them, but then there are other people who believe other wise. Both will fight to death about whats better, but who is really right at the end of the day. But really if you believe there is one certain way to acheive sound that is perfect the you should sell this idea, what are you waiting for blow the world away with your knowledge. But untill then atleast show the high end world some respect untill then.

And most of those high end products can be measured, except for the wine since we know that is a scam with DB taste tests. Funny you mention tubes since they are there to introduce distortion and make the music sound worse so when one says high end audio you should say people with too much money and not enough brains.

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahwnfras /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...I dont really understand how you could say that a $1000 system could sound as good as a $20000 system..

I bet you would understand after you failed the blind listening test between the two systems.

 

[MadMan007]

Even this forum perpetuates that $$$ = high-end, just go look at the 'high-end' subforum and its declared label of 'we're really sorry for your wallet.' There's a special name for the assumption that something more expensive is automatically better but it isn't always so. It's necessary to separate cost from sound quality when doing sound quality assessments because of this psychological factor. Price matters when talking about value, not sound quality.

 

[SP Wild]

I think everyone has missed the point of this saga. I am punching in my credit card number as I type. I hope to receive this oppo player soon. This is actual proof that a cheaper player can compete well above its weight - Thats all the evidence I need - everyone that is remotely thinking of blu ray should just buy the OPPO.

I bet you Oppo stabbed Lexicon in th back after taking all that licensing money, start the rumour and sell more oppo products - genuis.

 

[Leto Atreides II]

They didn't stab anyone in the back. Somebody just opened one of the ****ing Lexicons. It's really not that complicated.

 

[Leto Atreides II]

This is actually a really cool case. This is absolute proof that marketing works and it's very powerful.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats all the evidence I need - everyone that is remotely thinking of blu ray should just buy the OPPO.

I hate BD licensing fees and playing by their rules.

if you have to have BD, get anydvd, rip BD and then watch on any tv with any monitor and skip the 'forced play' sections all you want.

I'd never go back to an appliance again. too much 'content control' being forced on you. same as the dvd's that have 'you must watch this' section (PUO or prohibited user operations). like SKIPPING commercials. prohibited.

just say no to appliances that lock your remote while they force you to watch things. absurd concept!

I'd much rather pay for the anydvd license and then be able to watch any way I want, on my own terms.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto Atreides II /img/forum/go_quote.gif They didn't stab anyone in the back. Somebody just opened one of the ****ing Lexicons. It's really not that complicated.

I'd much rather someone got stabbed in the back - Or maybe I am more evil than good.

No, I didn't actually buy the oppo - just messin, I am thinkin about it for sure but I think linuxworks has a fantastic proposition.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I hate BD licensing fees and playing by their rules. if you have to have BD, get anydvd, rip BD and then watch on any tv with any monitor and skip the 'forced play' sections all you want. I'd never go back to an appliance again. too much 'content control' being forced on you. same as the dvd's that have 'you must watch this' section (PUO or prohibited user operations). like SKIPPING commercials. prohibited. just say no to appliances that lock your remote while they force you to watch things. absurd concept! I'd much rather pay for the anydvd license and then be able to watch any way I want, on my own terms.

I'm in the process of doing that, and want to say that at between 30-50Gb a Blu-ray rip and the price of memory, a BD-ROM, and the ripping and required playback software (I'm guessing they pay a licensing fee as well?), it is not likely to save you any money over the Oppo BDP-83 or even BDP-83SE. I'm doing it for archival purposes and future proofing the PC a bit.

 

[SP Wild]

30-50gb!!! What - I better place that order after all.

I used to think that 4-7 gig for a DVD rip was a lot. Not too bad with storage price now. Imagine 2 BD at 100gb, to transfer these 2 movies to another drive, the time taken will send me mad.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif 30-50gb!!! What - I better place that order after all. I used to think that 4-7 gig for a DVD rip was a lot. Not too bad with storage price now. Imagine 2 BD at 100gb, to transfer these 2 movies to another drive, the time taken will send me mad.

Well, most people re-encode their blu-ray rips to make them about 7 Gb for computer playback purposes and storage by removing some features and compressing using different containers others while keeping the scale and a fairly high bitrate.

Just like you have to do with commercial 8.5 GB DVDs to make them fit on 4.7Gb DVD-Rs, you also have to sacrifice for BD-R which are 25Gb compared to 50Gb commercial disc rips.

 

[googleborg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I hate BD licensing fees and playing by their rules. if you have to have BD, get anydvd, rip BD and then watch on any tv with any monitor and skip the 'forced play' sections all you want. I'd never go back to an appliance again. too much 'content control' being forced on you. same as the dvd's that have 'you must watch this' section (PUO or prohibited user operations). like SKIPPING commercials. prohibited. just say no to appliances that lock your remote while they force you to watch things. absurd concept! I'd much rather pay for the anydvd license and then be able to watch any way I want, on my own terms.

bloody well said.