[Tuneslover]

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to ask your recommendations on the G109S compared to the Audio GD C-2. Currently own the Audio GD R2R 11, great DAC, but I am not impressed with the amp so far. I have to crank the volume knob up high on both Low/high gain to hear clear details and this leads to ear fatigue. I plan to use the R2R 11 as the DAC and run RCA to the G109S or Audio GD C-2.

I am looking for an amp with wide soundstage, great clarity, and non fatiguing. Something I can listen to at lower volumes and still hear all the details in the sound. I can’t currently listen to low volumes on my R2R 11. I also get ear fatigue really easy from almost anything with high treble/shouty mids.

I have heard great things on the C-2 from a fellow head-fi member, but I don’t like the large form factor. The G109S seems like an awesome amp as well and it would fit my desk much better compared to the C-2.

Headphones used: Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Sennheiser HD6XX, Hifiman HE-500, and Hifiman HE-400s.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

I can tell you that the HD6XX sounds very good on the G109S.

 

[beyermann]

Hi, can somebody recommend me an amp for the DT 770 600 ohm? I was thinking g103-p. I need a flat response to produce electronic music, so no "warm exotic" stuff, or ridiculous trebble, just a clean signal, good soundstage, powerful enough (I dont want to get tinnitus, so no need for super loudness..)

if I get the g103-p Do I need to open it and change the jumper to high?

Also is it true that if you plug a low impedance headphone in one jack and a high impedance headphone on the other jack the low impedance one can literally be set on fire? This is my first pre amp so I want to know everything to not do something stupid. That is a bit off putting tho, I thought they would take care of that and not just let the headphone die...

I learned that watching this video:



Go to 1 minute 52 seconds.

Please let me know.

 

[beyermann]

Here's some comments on Lake People and the 103 from soneone that tried them + other high gear:

nope not for proper neutral, the rest is basically neutral'ish with a warm tilt or warm. It cost money to get neutral especially if you want it to be detailed/revealing, since then you start to get into the pro gear realm. You must also take into consideration that a lot of people tend to enjoy a sound that is a bit warm. Though I don't fully understand why this is so important for you, since your headphones are already very colored in their sound and a neutral amp won't change this.



Lake people isn't that good anymore, their amps tend to focus more on bass reproduction than mids and highs, so the bass stands out more. The reason why I don't have any lake people gear on my list is because their value isn't that amazing anymore, unless you need multiple headphone outputs and the performance value has dropped quite a bit over the last 5'ish years. A lot of their gear also seems focused on this middle ground between entry level and high end, which in audio is a pretty bad spot to be in, since the smart thing to do with audio gear is to run entry level until you can make the jump to high end, that is at least the way to go to spend less money. The jump from your typical mid range unit to a high end unit is often fairly big, while the jump from a good entry level unit to mid range unit is often not as big.



I wouldn't buy the G103-P new, but you can always look used and then the value should be decent/good. Nothing wrong with buying used and it is from 2012, so there must be some up on the used market somewhere.

The K550/553 is a flatter and overall a more detailed closed back, but still not that flat and then you have HD 280 and 7506 which again aren't that flat. The closed market is fairly limited and you actually pay a premium to get closed over open once you get out of the like $100 range, since then open for the same price start to be better in technical abilities. TBH all headphones kinda suck for mixing, especially closed. You should really be mixing on speakers and then use both open and closed headphones to check for the small flaws in the music and ofc check how it sounds with headphones.



Yes I have tried the G103-P, I have tried their whole current line up. People on head-fi also call the M50 neutral or flat and the ODAC and O2 for a amazing DAC and amp. Most of the reviews and discussions are from people that don't have that much experience, and there is nothing wrong with this, but it does mean you should take everything with a grain of salt.



Honestly the main thing is most people haven't actually tried proper flat gear and what people call "neutral" is so different, some people refer to a headphone with a 5dB bass boost as neutral (like zeos) and some call a warm sound neutral and some think that a mid forward sound is neutral. There is no standard for neutral, but there is a standard for flat and the lake people gear isn't flat, but it isn't as far off as let's say Audio GD gear is.



In reality then if you know how your gear colors the sound, then you can also mix with it. It is a misconception that you absolutely need flat gear, in reality you just need to know your gear. It is also a very good idea to have multiple headphones for checking both for flaws and just to hear how it sounds and if you can then multiple speakers too.



If I was you then I would either look for a used magni 2 uber or a used G103-P and then just be happy with it and then if you want to upgrade again then get a RME ADI 2 DAC/Pro or like a Crane song Solaris, but honestly those would be kinda wasted on just closed headphones.

I find this interesting because most people i've heard here said the 103/109 are neutral and good for mixing, however this guy said that not at all, Monotor and Corda classic much better for mixing. Thoughts?

 

[Pharmaboy]

Here's some comments on Lake People and the 103 from soneone that tried them + other high gear:






I find this interesting because most people i've heard here said the 103/109 are neutral and good for mixing, however this guy said that not at all, Monotor and Corda classic much better for mixing. Thoughts?

There's a constant tug-of-war in audio between accuracy/detail vs warm/life-like reproduction. Often this is openly discussed as preference & opinion, with people expressing a subjective preference for accuracy & detail (favoring relatively bright & presumably more accurate audio gear); or for some degree of warmth & foundational bass weight (favoring relatively natural, musical & presumably less acccurate audio gear). I'm firmly in the latter group, because IMO audio gear (including headphones) like that better convey the sound of real music I've heard in physical venues.

But this tug-of-war sometimes takes on confrontational aspects when 2 other evidentiary stances are involved:

1 - Flat frequency/empirical, where people fight (sometimes bitterly) over the claimed scientific validity of flat audio reproduction, measured by frequency graphs. Sometimes these arguments pivot on the claimed need for blind-listening tests; and/or

2 - Audio professional, where people involved in recording, tracking/mixing & producing music seek the most forensic audio gear for their work.

I've learned to ignore these controversies and follow my own ears. But this stuff can still matter if one needs advice regarding new headphones or audio gear. This happened to me recently when I did months of research on my next pair of powered studio monitors for the desktop. What I found was the majority of all user comments (& formal reviews) involved audio professionals. It became starkly clear that music pros have quite different needs & preferences for gear than do music lovers, audiophiles, and headphone nuts (I'm all 3). I learned to "read through" most user comments...

• It's true that professionals who mix music need accurate/forensive music transducers for their work--because any colorations make it impossible to produce final recordings that sound as intended on a range of music systems). But some music pros will also admit that speakers or headphones that suit their work can sound pretty bad when used for music appreciation.

In the long run, it comes back to each person knowing his/her own preferences for audio reproduction. All the arguing and theorizing in the world can't substitute for real awareness of what sounds good to you.

PS: I own a Lake People G109-A & a Violectric V281, both very fine amps; and owned/sold a K553 headphone (it sounded miserable to me). A friend of mine has a Jazz HP amp and loves it.

 

[Kane Williams]

Does anyone know where the G93 would fit in the line up? I know it's discontinued now, but would this be lower down the line to the G103/G105/G109 as the naming convention would suggest? I realise it has a fixed power cable, but parts/sound wise how does it compare?

 

[kalibur]

How would the G109P compare with the RS02/08 - anyone compared them?

 

[chimney189]

Has anyone compared the G109P to the Burson Soloist SL mkII?

 

[Pharmaboy]

Has anyone compared the G109P to the Burson Soloist SL mkII?

I can comment on an approximate comparison--similar to what you outline. I own a single-ended Lake People G109-A ("A" stands for "Anniversary" edition). I also at one time owned the larger Burson Soloist amp/preamp--the one pictured in review below. The soloist is double the power of the SL (4wpc) and has full preamp facility:

https://www.headfonia.com/less-blockage-more-music-burson-soloist/

I briefly owned both at the same time, then sold the Soloist. There were major differences between then, sonically & operationally:

• The G109-A (which I still own & love) is relatively compact, powerful, and has that classic Lake People sound: slightly warm, great bass, full mids & treble but zero brightness, and average-but-pleasing soundstaging. It's not a hyper-detailed, hi-rez sound. I find it be very musical, authoritative, sounding like music does IRL
• The Soloist was larger & ~twice the power. The bass was great, but everything above that became problematic for me due to slight but everpresent edginess/brightness. I had to choose matching source DAC and headphones more carefully w/the Soloist.
  • It also had the most annoying stepped volume pot I've ever encountered, with just 14 steps, only the bottom 2-3 of which were usable in my system.
  • The pot annoyed me so much that I contacted Burson about getting an analog/non-stepped version of the pot, which certainly made the Soloist more usable for me.

These power of the Soloist SL & G109-S is equivalent (~2 wpc); and neither can be used as a preamp.
If it was me, choosing between the Lake People sound vs Burson sound, it would be Lake People every time.

 

[chimney189]

I can comment on an approximate comparison--similar to what you outline. I own a single-ended Lake People G109-A ("A" stands for "Anniversary" edition). I also at one time owned the larger Burson Soloist amp/preamp--the one pictured in review below. The soloist is double the power of the SL (4wpc) and has full preamp facility:

https://www.headfonia.com/less-blockage-more-music-burson-soloist/

I briefly owned both at the same time, then sold the Soloist. There were major differences between then, sonically & operationally:

• The G109-A (which I still own & love) is relatively compact, powerful, and has that classic Lake People sound: slightly warm, great bass, full mids & treble but zero brightness, and average-but-pleasing soundstaging. It's not a hyper-detailed, hi-rez sound. I find it be very musical, authoritative, sounding like music does IRL
• The Soloist was larger & ~twice the power. The bass was great, but everything above that became problematic for me due to slight but everpresent edginess/brightness. I had to choose matching source DAC and headphones more carefully w/the Soloist.
  • It also had the most annoying stepped volume pot I've ever encountered, with just 14 steps, only the bottom 2-3 of which were usable in my system.
  • The pot annoyed me so much that I contacted Burson about getting an analog/non-stepped version of the pot, which certainly made the Soloist more usable for me.

These power of the Soloist SL & G109-S is equivalent (~2 wpc); and neither can be used as a preamp.
If it was me, choosing between the Lake People sound vs Burson sound, it would be Lake People every time.

I’m actually finding the Soloist to have a somewhat soft, yet bodied bass.

I love the top end of it, and the mid-range seems somewhat forward while the soundstage is surprisingly small with little depth.

 

[funkle II]

If I already own a THX AAA 789, in terms of sound signature, would the G109-A be redundant, or a good compliment? Am I correct in assuming the 109 might be perceptively warmer & more musical?

 

[Pharmaboy]

If I already own a THX AAA 789, in terms of sound signature, would the G109-A be redundant, or a good compliment? Am I correct in assuming the 109 might be perceptively warmer & more musical?

I haven't heard the THX AAA 789, but read many comments about its overall neutral sound that doesn't flatter less than ideal sources. So it's safe to assume the G109-A* is somewhat warmer & more musical (the "house sound" of Lake People & Violectric). The bass is very nice, deep & impactful. The G109-A was my first serious amp, and it still pleases me a lot.

So net/net, the G109 would be a compliment, definitely not redundant

* current models are G109-S w/RCA inputs; and G109-P, with 2 X 3-pin XLR inputs. The G109-S sells for ~470.

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Lake-People-c34633357​

There are some differences between the 789 and these:

• The Lake People amps top out at ~2.3W, less than the 789. But this power rating is deceptive. I've never managed to get the volume pot on mine to as high as 12 o'clock, even w/my power hog ZMF Ori (this w/the amp on low gain--there are 3 internal settings)
• The 789 can output 4-pin XLR, balanced signal to headphones having a balanced cable, while the G109's cannot (they're both strictly single-ended)
• And the G109s are somewhat smaller, particular in width

 

[cirodts]

hello, I have a simple question: what is the difference between the LP G111 and the LP g103 s?
To drive an Amiron and a sundara is the LP g 103 sufficient for power?
lp g111 and lp g103 s same sound quality?
thanks.

 

[SummingStrange]

what is the difference between the LP G111 and the LP g103 s?
lp g111 and lp g103 s same sound quality?

I'd like to know about this too, or maybe the g109 vs the g111.
I did read somewhere that the g111 is the replacement for the g109.
Apologies if the thread is dead.

 

[davidespinosa]

For the G103 vs G109, this article is informative and has good photos:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lake-people-g103p-and-g109p-headphone-amplifiers

For the G109P vs G111, the differences should be very subtle.
You have to ask @ArthurPower or @fdg .

G109S = Standard = RCA inputs
G109P = Professional = XLR inputs

Whether you can head differences in sound depends on:
* How hard your headphones are to drive
* How loud you listen
* How good your ears are
* How you're feeling that day.

Lake People and Violectric gear is awesome, totally pro stuff.

 

[SummingStrange]

Thanks for the advice!
Lake People's website describes the g111 as the successor to the g100.
This website: G111 Power Holdings describes the G111 as the successor to the G109 and G100, so I think that's where I got the idea from.