[Pharmaboy]

Interesting post. In recent months, I've been listening a lot to a modded pair of original HD650, trying them out on all 5 amps I have in the office. 4 of the 5 are SS designs (incl. Lake People G109-A); and the newest is the Woo WA3 OTL tube amp.

I've found that the modded HD650s sound quite simiiar (and good) on all SS amps. Despite that fact that 2 are balanced and 2 are SE (I have one of each cable for the HD650); and vary greatly in power, the sound is way more similar than different on all SS amps.

The big change is when I plug the HD650s in the WA3. It's not a "night and day" difference, but suddenly there's an overall sense of refinement, freedom from peaks/plateaus, and the HD650s sound the best I've ever heard them. Beside the well-known benefits of tubes for shaping the tone & timbre of headphones, I suspect the biggest factor here is impedance matching: the Woo is designed to be used w/high impedance headphones, and the HD650 is a high impedance headphone.

All to say I'm not sure how far one will get trying to match up the HD6XX w/bright vs warm SS amps. But I am sure you'll get more out of these headphones on a high-impedance amp.

 

[Tuneslover]

I feel like my HD6XX are too dark and too warm with my Lake People G103-S. I'm not saying that Lake People G103-S is very dark or warm, but maybe HD6XX requires brighter amp.

Odd, personally I don't find the G109S and HD650 or HD6XX (I own both) that way at all. I find the HD6XX slightly brighter sounding than my HD650 and both sound terrific with the G109S. I also have the Jotunheim and love how it pairs with these Sennheiser headphones but they can get a bit fatiguing during long listening sessions. I simply find that the G109S is a more relaxing amp but I wouldn't characterize it as dark or warm, but that's the way my ears hear it.

 

[GivenTheOkiDoke]

Looking to make a switch to a different SS. The past few years I have been using the Meier Corda Jazz and a few cheap hybrids. After reading deep into this thread and elsewere the G109 seems to be towards the top of my list. The other amp I was looking at was Rupert Neve RNPH. Has anyone done an AB of these two amps?

 

[davidespinosa]

The other amp I was looking at was Rupert Neve RNPH.

Check the output power of the G109 and the RNHP into different loads:

@16 ohms
G109: 765 mW
RNHP: 230 mW

@44 ohms
G109: 1800 mW
RNHP: 300 mW

@150 ohms:
G109: 1500 mW (my estimate)
RNHP: 175 mW

@300 ohms:
G109: 1056 mW
RNHP: 88 mW (my estimate)

@600 ohms:
G109: 595 mW
RNHP: 44 mW (my estimate)

 

[depthgrammar]

Hi - just acquired a G109A for use with my HD650. It's a great amp! After listening at length a few ways, I'm finding I prefer the low gain setting. I was considering a V200 and even a V280 - have to say I'm not tempted to upgrade. G109 on low gain is pretty much exactly what I had hoped to hear from the reportedly warmer Violectric amps - very full bodied, a little rolled off in just the right way, but still plenty controlled and detailed. Have had the same experience with other amps paired with high impedance headphones - i find the low gain setting makes things more relaxed, improves realism, imaging, etc. Everything settles in a very satisfying way. Of course, ymmv

 

[Pharmaboy]

Hi - just acquired a G109A for use with my HD650. It's a great amp! After listening at length a few ways, I'm finding I prefer the low gain setting. I was considering a V200 and even a V280 - have to say I'm not tempted to upgrade. G109 on low gain is pretty much exactly what I had hoped to hear from the reportedly warmer Violectric amps - very full bodied, a little rolled off in just the right way, but still plenty controlled and detailed. Have had the same experience with other amps paired with high impedance headphones - i find the low gain setting makes things more relaxed, improves realism, imaging, etc. Everything settles in a very satisfying way. Of course, ymmv

Interesting post...and I agree w/everything you say about the G109-A. There is a strong "family sound" in the Lake People/Violectric amps. The V281 (which I also have) sounds like the G109-A on steroids--very similar, but a little more of everything except warmth.

BTW, I use low gain setting only on every amp, even the least powerful. Not only because it sounds better (and it does), but also because higher gain settings push either the headphone or system volume pot too far down toward zero volume--leaving me w/less adjustment at the least linear part of the pot's range.

 

[Tuneslover]

Interesting post...and I agree w/everything you say about the G109-A. There is a strong "family sound" in the Lake People/Violectric amps. The V281 (which I also have) sounds like the G109-A on steroids--very similar, but a little more of everything except warmth.

BTW, I use low gain setting only on every amp, even the least powerful. Not only because it sounds better (and it does), but also because higher gain settings push either the headphone or system volume pot too far down toward zero volume--leaving me w/less adjustment at the least linear part of the pot's range.

I tinkered with the gain setting on my G109S (which is no easy feat) and did try the low gain for a while but I always felt that I needed to crank the volume pot pretty far leaving me with less pot room. That might have been before I inserted DAC's into the chain (I don't remember) so it might be a worthy experiment again. Thanks for giving me something else to tinker with .

 

[depthgrammar]

I tinkered with the gain setting on my G109S (which is no easy feat) and did try the low gain for a while but I always felt that I needed to crank the volume pot pretty far leaving me with less pot room. That might have been before I inserted DAC's into the chain (I don't remember) so it might be a worthy experiment again. Thanks for giving me something else to tinker with .

Might be worth trying it again now. Another thing I noticed, when I switched cables from some generic brand to the entry level Oyaide rcas, the level from my dac got significantly louder. This was with a different amp - but suddenly the lowest volume setting was too loud on high gain! So I think every part of your chain can probably have an effect.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Gain-matching my system was pretty easy back when I used DACs that had ~1.9 volts output. Then I got the Audio GD NOS 19 (amazing sound) and its non-oversampling variant, the DAC-19. Both have 2 RCA output pairs, live at all times, which allowed me to really complicate my system, w/1 headphone amp on one RCA output; and a 2nd headphone amp (also functioning as preamp) on the other, feeding signal to the stereo amp + monitors + sub.

• for example, at the moment my amp/preamp is the M Stage Matrix HPA-1; and 2nd headphone amp is the G109-A.

However, these AGD DACs output 2.5 volts--which delivers 25% more system gain. That required setting various volume pots set quite a bit lower than before to deliver equivalent volume. With the Violectric V281 in particular, I found the std gain setting produced shockingly high gain. Luckily, the V281 has the most flexible/extensive I/O settings I've ever seen, incl. separate banks of gain dip-switches for HP outputs vs line level outputs. Dropping the gain on both sets of dip-switches by 12 dB did the trick.

So with either of these high gain DACs in the system, I've found it's not practical to set any amp or amp/preamp to high(er) gain. It doesn't sound better, or even quite as good--and that volume pot goes way down in usable range again.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Might be worth trying it again now. Another thing I noticed, when I switched cables from some generic brand to the entry level Oyaide rcas, the level from my dac got significantly louder. This was with a different amp - but suddenly the lowest volume setting was too loud on high gain! So I think every part of your chain can probably have an effect.

Wow. I realize different cables have different specs (ie, capacitance, other values). But to have a significant gain increase just from switching cables--didn't know that was possible.

This is a complicated hobby, isn't it?

 

[Tuneslover]

Wow. I realize different cables have different specs (ie, capacitance, other values). But to have a significant gain increase just from switching cables--didn't know that was possible.

This is a complicated hobby, isn't it?

But fun!!

 

[Tuneslover]

So I decided to open up my G109S in order to test how changing the gain affects my system. As I already knew the jumpers were set in the default position. The labelling on the board showed default represented 0 dB gain, while the other positions showed +6 dB gain and the other -12 dB reduction. So I moved the jumpers to the -12 dB and had a listen. Well I was able to turn the volume pot all the way up and while it was somewhat loud it wasn't so loud that I couldn't handle it, in fact I do listen at that and even louder volume from time to time (depending on the recording and/or music type).

I have a Loki in this setup which does a great job of improving the speaker sound in the room (which is why I bought the Loki). I decided to invoke the Loki when testing my headphones and although it did boost the volume a tad it still didn't give me enough pot room to allow a satisfactory volume level.

I performed this "test" with my HD650, HE500 and AKG7XX phones. My interconnects are good quality Audioquest. Bottom line, I plan to keep my G109S gain set at the default position because it delivers a very good level of detail and dynamics with plenty of additional pot room when I'm listening to quieter mastered recordings.

 

[depthgrammar]

So I decided to open up my G109S in order to test how changing the gain affects my system. As I already knew the jumpers were set in the default position. The labelling on the board showed default represented 0 dB gain, while the other positions showed +6 dB gain and the other -12 dB reduction. So I moved the jumpers to the -12 dB and had a listen. Well I was able to turn the volume pot all the way up and while it was somewhat loud it wasn't so loud that I couldn't handle it, in fact I do listen at that and even louder volume from time to time (depending on the recording and/or music type).

I have a Loki in this setup which does a great job of improving the speaker sound in the room (which is why I bought the Loki). I decided to invoke the Loki when testing my headphones and although it did boost the volume a tad it still didn't give me enough pot room to allow a satisfactory volume level.

I performed this "test" with my HD650, HE500 and AKG7XX phones. My interconnects are good quality Audioquest. Bottom line, I plan to keep my G109S gain set at the default position because it delivers a very good level of detail and dynamics with plenty of additional pot room when I'm listening to quieter mastered recordings.

Interesting. My setup is pretty similar to yours and on low gain my listening level with HD650 is still mostly around 10 -11 o'clock. I do like to listen on the quiet side, but full volume is much louder than I'd ever need it to go.

 

[Tuneslover]

So I decided to open up my G109S in order to test how changing the gain affects my system. As I already knew the jumpers were set in the default position. The labelling on the board showed default represented 0 dB gain, while the other positions showed +6 dB gain and the other -12 dB reduction. So I moved the jumpers to the -12 dB and had a listen. Well I was able to turn the volume pot all the way up and while it was somewhat loud it wasn't so loud that I couldn't handle it, in fact I do listen at that and even louder volume from time to time (depending on the recording and/or music type).

I have a Loki in this setup which does a great job of improving the speaker sound in the room (which is why I bought the Loki). I decided to invoke the Loki when testing my headphones and although it did boost the volume a tad it still didn't give me enough pot room to allow a satisfactory volume level.

I performed this "test" with my HD650, HE500 and AKG7XX phones. My interconnects are good quality Audioquest. Bottom line, I plan to keep my G109S gain set at the default position because it delivers a very good level of detail and dynamics with plenty of additional pot room when I'm listening to quieter mastered recordings.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I have a unit that was purchased and shipped from Germany (Thomann.de) which is a 220V unit complete with a German power cord (& plug). Since Thomann.de knew I was from Canada, I assumed that they would have shipped me a North American 110V model, but alas that important detail was overlooked.

After some discussion with Fried Reim (@fdg) and other posters on this thread it was concluded that a STEP UP TRANSFORMER was what I would require. I purchased a SIMRAN AC-200 which will do both STEP UP (if you use a 220V/240V appliance in the U.S.) and also STEP DOWN (if you use a North American appliance in 220V/240V appliances).

So I have the transformer switched to 110 based on the instructions, which reads: Select 110V to use as a Step Up Transformer using Foreign 220/240V appliances in the U.S.

I just double checked to make sure that I had the selector in the correct position, I did. For the heck of it I decided to open up the G109S once again and moved the jumper to low gain and then switched the transformer to the 220V position to see if this would increase the low gain setting. It didn't, in fact it sounded identical no matter what position I had the voltage selector switched. So I don't know what's up but it seems like my unit doesn't output nearly as loud as others have reported.

 

[USAFPharm86]

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to ask your recommendations on the G109S compared to the Audio GD C-2. Currently own the Audio GD R2R 11, great DAC, but I am not impressed with the amp so far. I have to crank the volume knob up high on both Low/high gain to hear clear details and this leads to ear fatigue. I plan to use the R2R 11 as the DAC and run RCA to the G109S or Audio GD C-2.

I am looking for an amp with wide soundstage, great clarity, and non fatiguing. Something I can listen to at lower volumes and still hear all the details in the sound. I can’t currently listen to low volumes on my R2R 11. I also get ear fatigue really easy from almost anything with high treble/shouty mids.

I have heard great things on the C-2 from a fellow head-fi member, but I don’t like the large form factor. The G109S seems like an awesome amp as well and it would fit my desk much better compared to the C-2.

Headphones used: Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, Sennheiser HD6XX, Hifiman HE-500, and Hifiman HE-400s.

Thanks to everyone for the help.