[project86]

I have experience with both the LA7000 and LCD-2 from the Quattro amp. I think both are quite nice, but like others have said the LCD-2 is ultimately the better headphone. Still, I very much enjoy the LA7000, and the fact that it is closed means it is more practical in my house. I don't know if I would recommend a brand new LA7000 at this point but used examples are still viable for the price. A third option is the Unique Melody Merlin, which I just might prefer over the LCD-2. 
 
 
 

 

[Vargtass]

I went for a pair of Westone 4 myself, both to have something on the move and something to have when there are sound all around me at home (girlfriend watching a series or a movie), but yeah, I could very well see myself going for a pair of Merlins just to compliment the LCD-2's properly. The 4's are really nice and I can't really see why I should bother doing "more" than them, especially when I have the LCD-2's, but we'll just have to see  

 

[Vargtass]

And I'm back here ... same thread, once again pondering the LA7000.

My problem per now is sound leakage out to my girlfriend, and the fact that I have a loudspeaker for the tv pretty much 20 cm away from my left ear - feeding into the open LCD-2's. Also, I guess I'm not 100% happy with the fit and comfort of the LCD-2's. Then again, I'm not sure I'll ever be happy with comfort on anything but the HD-800.

Also, I'd love to try something new, I guess. I suspect the LCD-2-signature is sort of boring me by now. At the same time, I'm uncertain about whether the LA-7000's can contribute here. I'd assume they will produce more and better bass, but I could be wrong.

I'm also considering the HD-800's again, well knowing that they're radically different from what I have and probably what I like. Oh ... and I'm slowly watching my dishwasher doing more and more weird stuff ... there is a huge chance all my cash will go that way instead. Sigh ...

LA7000's has been a dream for a LONG time, but if they're not "at least" as good as the LCD-2's soundwise (especially soundstage and bass) I guess I should just ... wait and suffer while my girlfriend watches stuff on the tv or studies, so I can't listen to music while she's home. Yey ...

Oh, and I've got the Schiit Mjolnir balanced amp now. It drives the LCD-2's pretty well as far as I've noticed so far. Assuming they will be nice with the LA's as well, and ... HD-800s?

 

[KCxSmacker]

Just an option, but maybe wait for audeze to put more finish on their closed backs they are working on. They might be a better pairing for the already amazing LA7000s. Just a thought. ^_~
 
cheers

 

[MHOE]

I would for sure buy Audeze LCD-2 rev2 with angled connectors... In terms of enjoyment and touch of reality, and better specs (measurements) as well.
 
I haven't heard LA7000 but I used D7000 with neutralisation curve... They sounded very very good but nowhere near LCD-2 rev2. It's not apparent immediately but LCD-2 rev2 are much more accurate, clear, musical. D7000 are just a pair of headphones, LCD-2 rev2 are much more reproducing reality and you don't even need to EQ them to achieve that.
 
I would not wait until the closed-back Audezes are released as LCD-2 are now very near-to-perfect... This is not true with LCD-3 that in reality measures pretty bad for their price. LCD-2 is a very good product, LCD-3 still need improvement in their design IMHO. That closed prototype will need years of establishing to make their measurements worth the price.
 
Honestly, not planning any other upgrading... LCD-2 rev2 are an ultimate pair of headphones, one of the best in the world in terms of sound signature, neutrality and technical ability. A perfect allrounder for pro applications as well as ultimate listeners experience.
 
I have talked to Lunatique today... He told me that he even sold his Staxes 007 because of LCD-2. There is no WOW moment involved in them but the realism is simply stunning...

 

[Vargtass]

I suspect you're right, MHOE. I could maybe consider a pair of HD-800 for those "wow" moments where I want the ultimate sound stage or something, but I agree about the LCD-2's doing mostly everything right. The only thing I guess I can complain about is the ... more narrow sound stage compared to say the 800's.

Anyways, seems my dishwasher is working on murdering itself, so I suspect my 1000 usd must go that way at the moment

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

I suspect you're right, MHOE. I could maybe consider a pair of HD-800 for those "wow" moments where I want the ultimate sound stage or something, but I agree about the LCD-2's doing mostly everything right. The only thing I guess I can complain about is the ... more narrow sound stage compared to say the 800's.
Anyways, seems my dishwasher is working on murdering itself, so I suspect my 1000 usd must go that way at the moment

 
LCD-2 rev2 and HD800 are the two best pairs of dynamic headphones recently... HD800 is an ultimate dynamic reference, their measurements are even better (the best, LCD-2 rev2 are the second as far as I know). However, their (HD800) sound is nowhere near reality and I don't even need to hear them.
 
I would not buy LCD-3... They are definitely not worth the price - they measure worse than LCD-2 rev2 and about the same as LCD-2 rev1. The difference is in emphasising bass+mids a bit along with more treble mainly from 10khz to make them feel more airy. However, as you get a graph along with LCD-2, you are completely free to correct their FR graph in order to get LCD-3 for half the price ,-)
 
HD800 or LCD-2 rev2 I would say if we speak about technical ability for your money... Or even both together, they are going to work great together IMHO. But I have zero interest in HD800 as I seek for realistic sound, not WOW moments
 
I would suggest to pair LCD-2 rev2 with TB Isone for spatial interpretation... Once you get the settings right it's like you are at the studio, listening to the band recording/performing their albums I am not joking... It's ******** real, even without any EQing!

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
However, their (HD800) sound is nowhere near reality and I don't even need to hear them.
 
 

 
 
So how would you know - for sure?

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
 
So how would you know - for sure?

 
I am absolutely sure because I do know how to find this out... I can provide you links and instructions how to learn to distinguish the sound.
 
I haven't heard tons of headphones but I only needed two attempts in order to find my desired pair of headphones - yes, measurements were absolutely enough ,-) I wanted the realism and found it... No need to spend thousands of dollars if you are willing to understand the science behind the sound.
 
EDIT: Actually, it was only one attempt...

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
I am absolutely sure because I do know how to find this out... I can provide you links and instructions how to learn to distinguish the sound.
 
I haven't heard tons of headphones but I only needed two attempts in order to find my desired pair of headphones - yes, measurements were absolutely enough ,-) I wanted the realism and found it... No need to spend thousands of dollars if you are willing to understand the science behind the sound.
 
EDIT: Actually, it was only one attempt...

 
I agree, you don't need to spend that much.  It's also ways not to spend that much.  Meets, home trials, from friends.  Tons of ways to get that personal experience to see or hear for your self if this is the headphone for me.  What if in fact the HD800s does give you that reality sound.  But the measurements said other wise.  I understand.  You trust your measurements and all.  But they can never take the place of that personal experience.  That experience at the end of the day tells you.  this is the headphone for me.  Many other things come into play.  Comfort, size, clamping, ear pad size and feel.  As well as knowing first hand if it's the sound you want and desire.  No measurement can do all that.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
I agree, you don't need to spend that much.  It's also ways not to spend that much.  Meets, home trials, from friends.  Tons of ways to get that personal experience to see or hear for your self if this is the headphone for me.  What if in fact the HD800s does give you that reality sound.  But the measurements said other wise.  I understand.  You trust your measurements and all.  But they can never take the place of that personal experience.  That experience at the end of the day tells you.  this is the headphone for me.  Many other things come into play.  Comfort, size, clamping, ear pad size and feel.  As well as knowing first hand if it's the sound you want and desire.  No measurement can do all that.

 
Actually, I was quite surprised about how the clamp works positively... It feels like LCD-2 are a large window around you that enables you to enter the studio where the performance of music is being done. I do find myself more into the music than with lightweight and non-intensive headphones in terms of their cooperation with my head. But this is purely subjective...
 
I do not have these options you mention... And so I learnt how to distinguish the sound, gained some experience experimenting with my two previous phones, sine waves, equalizers, tons of other plugins... It's enough if you have no other option.
 
I trust measurements way more than my ears, to be honest... This is because I do very precisely know which kind of sound I seek for. I do know that technical perfection is not always the best thing and that's why I am not interested in HD800 - they are going to be too detailed and analytic for my approach. Also, their bass is not enough to reproduce real impact of lovely played bass guitar. The treble is not tragic, no, but it's too much in the region where I hate it (5 - 9 khz). Overtreble is for sure ruining the whole experience for me, way more than not completely flat mids or bass.
 
HD800 must be perfect for classical but I do find LCD-2 rev2 much better for pop, rock, metal and acoustic-guitar based music for sure. They are simply stunning... I am not able to describe it, it's just a real experience. Live performances sounds even better than when you visit the gig yourself... No matter if it's symphonic concert or rock.
 
Again, I strongly suggest to pair LCD-2 with TB Isone... You will get the improved spatial interpretation (soundstage, a bit better imaging).

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
Actually, I was quite surprised about how the clamp works positively... It feels like LCD-2 are a large window around you that enables you to enter the studio where the performance of music is being done. I do find myself more into the music than with lightweight and non-intensive headphones in terms of their cooperation with my head. But this is purely subjective...
 
I do not have these options you mention... And so I learnt how to distinguish the sound, gained some experience experimenting with my two previous phones, sine waves, equalizers, tons of other plugins... It's enough if you have no other option.
 
I trust measurements way more than my ears, to be honest... This is because I do very precisely know which kind of sound I seek for. I do know that technical perfection is not always the best thing and that's why I am not interested in HD800 - they are going to be too detailed and analytic for my approach. Also, their bass is not enough to reproduce real impact of lovely played bass guitar. The treble is not tragic, no, but it's too much in the region where I hate it (5 - 9 khz). Overtreble is for sure ruining the whole experience for me, way more than not completely flat mids or bass.
 
HD800 must be perfect for classical but I do find LCD-2 rev2 much better for pop, rock, metal and acoustic-guitar based music for sure. They are simply stunning... I am not able to describe it, it's just a real experience. Live performances sounds even better than when you visit the gig yourself... No matter if it's symphonic concert or rock.
 
Again, I strongly suggest to pair LCD-2 with TB Isone... You will get the improved spatial interpretation (soundstage, a bit better imaging).

 
 
"Actually, I was quite surprised about how the clamp works positively"
 
This is one of my points.  You would not have know other wise.  Also no measurement could have told you that.
 
"I do not have these options you mention... And so I learnt how to distinguish the sound, gained some experience experimenting with my two previous phones, sine waves, equalizers, tons of other plugins... It's enough if you have no other option."
 
This is perfectly understandable.
 
"I trust measurements way more than my ears, to be honest.."
 
I guess this is where I get lost.  I do understand that our ears are flawed.  But there flawed in a way that tells us what we enjoy.  At the end of the day you have to put the headphones on and use your ears anyway.  You can't sit there and look at measurements all day and get enjoyment from music.  Your ears are the tools that you need to enjoy the music, so why not listen to what they have to say?
 
"Also, their bass is not enough to reproduce real impact of lovely played bass guitar. The treble is not tragic, no, but it's too much in the region where I hate it (5 - 9 khz). Overtreble is for sure ruining the whole experience for me, way more than not completely flat mids or bass"
 
This is for me and IMO amps come into play.  I have amps that I much prefer the HD800s on more than others.  If you just want to be a 1 headphone, 1 amp shop.  Then I guess I understand.  Otherwise there much more options out there to get the sound to an enjoyable level than just measurements.  My balanced M^3 with the right opamp is just perfect for the HD800.  While my other amps are to accurate or neutral to enjoy the music with the HD800s.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
 
"Actually, I was quite surprised about how the clamp works positively"
 
This is one of my points.  You would not have know other wise.  Also no measurement could have told you that.
 
"I do not have these options you mention... And so I learnt how to distinguish the sound, gained some experience experimenting with my two previous phones, sine waves, equalizers, tons of other plugins... It's enough if you have no other option."
 
This is perfectly understandable.
 
"I trust measurements way more than my ears, to be honest.."
 
I guess this is where I get lost.  I do understand that our ears are flawed.  But there flawed in a way that tells us what we enjoy.  At the end of the day you have to put the headphones on and use your ears anyway.  You can't sit there and look at measurements all day and get enjoyment from music.  Your ears are the tools that you need to enjoy the music, so why not listen to what they have to say?
 
"Also, their bass is not enough to reproduce real impact of lovely played bass guitar. The treble is not tragic, no, but it's too much in the region where I hate it (5 - 9 khz). Overtreble is for sure ruining the whole experience for me, way more than not completely flat mids or bass"
 
This is for me and IMO amps come into play.  I have amps that I much prefer the HD800s on more than others.  If you just want to be a 1 headphone, 1 amp shop.  Then I guess I understand.  Otherwise there much more options out there to get the sound to an enjoyable level than just measurements.  My balanced M^3 with the right opamp is just perfect for the HD800.  While my other amps are to accurate or neutral to enjoy the music with the HD800s.

 
Your amp should be as neutral, transparent and powerful as possible... Anything else is only going to degrade your SQ. This may be desirable but not for me...
 
I rather get a pair of headphones that works flawlessly in terms of what I want from them and then pair them with the most precise amplifier and DAC available (for me) in order to get the best out of them.
 
About the others things - I think we have discussed this already... You know my answer and approach as well as I know yours. I do not think you are wrong. I wish you only the best with your headphones. I do not want to ruin another discussion - just wanted to say that LA7000 are going to be nowhere near LCD-2 rev2 in just like anything you can ever imagine.
 
The only thing where LA7000 (and D7000) are maybe going to be more desirable for someone is the midbass resonance that makes them sound like a subwoofer. But honestly, this is nowhere near the reality and I hated it.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
Your amp should be as neutral, transparent and powerful as possible... Anything else is only going to degrade your SQ. This may be desirable but not for me...
 
I rather get a pair of headphones that works flawlessly in terms of what I want from them and then pair them with the most precise amplifier and DAC available (for me) in order to get the best out of them.
 
About the others things - I think we have discussed this already... You know my answer and approach as well as I know yours. I do not think you are wrong. I wish you only the best with your headphones. I do not want to ruin another discussion - just wanted to say that LA7000 are going to be nowhere near LCD-2 rev2 in just like anything you can ever imagine.
 
The only thing where LA7000 (and D7000) are maybe going to be more desirable for someone is the midbass resonance that makes them sound like a subwoofer. But honestly, this is nowhere near the reality and I hated it.

 
 
"Your amp should be as neutral, transparent and powerful as possible"
 
This is not always true.  And to use the word "Should" is again not always true.  First, all tube amps are not neutral and transparent hence the term "tube sound" As I said before, you can get difference sound sigs from op amps as the case with my M^3.  Neutral and Transparent is not what I want with that amp.  It's the amp I use all of my bright and analytical headphones with.
 
 
 
Cool - I'm out..

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
 
"Your amp should be as neutral, transparent and powerful as possible"
 
This is not always true.  And to use the word "Should" is again not always true.  First, all tube amps are not neutral and transparent hence the term "tube sound" As I said before, you can get difference sound sigs from op amps as the case with my M^3.  Neutral and Transparent is not what I want with that amp.  It's the amp I use all of my bright and analytical headphones with.
 
 
 
Cool - I'm out..

 
The amplifier should only amplify the signal, nothing more... Without coloration, without distortion. However, many people prefer distortion and coloration in order to mitigate flaws of their headphones.