La Figaro 339
Oct 9, 2021 at 1:06 PM Post #6,571 of 6,903
Can't disagree with your logic, they seem to be working fine. Interesting. Maybe I just got really unlucky with those tubes.
Always double check if everything is properly installed. A tube wrongly inserted may burn in together with the amp..

Maybe trying tubes not requiring adapters will be easier first. Go through the link provided in the post above.

And good luck! La figaro is really a good amp:)
 
Last edited:
Oct 9, 2021 at 1:30 PM Post #6,572 of 6,903
Always double check if everythink is properly installed. A tube wrongly inserted may burn in together with the amp..

Maybe trying tubes not requiring adapters will be easier first. Go through the link provided in the post above.

And good luck! La figaro is really a good amp:)
Thanks mate. Listening now, and even with the stock tubes its so much better than my Darkvoice with more expensive tubes in it.

Next step is getting a new motherboard with Spdif, would an adapter be worth it or would it degrage quality?
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 2:15 PM Post #6,573 of 6,903
Next step is getting a new motherboard with Spdif, would an adapter be worth it or would it degrage quality?
You mean motherboard for a computer?Are You using computer as a streamer to external dac? If so maybe instead of changing motherboard it may make sense to go for a USB to Spdif converter. I have Matrix SPDIF and it works wery well.
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 3:27 PM Post #6,574 of 6,903
Here is a good start in the link below.
Member @UntilThen putvthis together showing different combinations he used when he had the amp,
He is a well respected member on here who does a LOT of tube/amp rolling and many of us live through his experiences. 😁
Please be aware some of the driver tubes (the outside ones) may need adapters But RCA 5693 and any 6SJ7 is a direct plug in.

I would not use the tube if it is sparking. Are both doing it as it looks like lightning in a bottle? It can blow a component in the amp if the tube is damaged. Be careful and use the stock tubes if you do not have any other 6AS7/6080 tubes handy.

Post in thread 'La Figaro 339'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/la-figaro-339.502306/post-13657762

2017 seems such a long time ago. :) I still kept all the tubes and adapters with the intention to get another 339i later but it might not eventuate.
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 5:57 PM Post #6,576 of 6,903
II
You mean motherboard for a computer?Are You using computer as a streamer to external dac? If so maybe instead of changing motherboard it may make sense to go for a USB to Spdif converter. I have Matrix SPDIF and it works wery well.
I am indeed. I have a 3080 powered pc that I use a lot and that's connected to my audio rig. I will definitely get a pi solution when I move. However, at the minute I have a flat where my gaming pc is besides my TV setup connected to my floorstanders, so 90 percent of my listening is through my gaming pc. Headphones or speakers.

For that price, it would work out better to get a new motherboard with spdif as I am not averse to an upgrade anyway. Thanks though, those units looks really sick.
 
Oct 25, 2021 at 3:32 AM Post #6,577 of 6,903
A friend of mine (who also frequented this thread) recently brought me a 339i with hum issue to look into. I spent some time doing measurement and modifications. The resulting improvement was pretty significant. I hope the analysis and mods here can help other head-fiers to troubleshoot similar problems. It was done in a hurry and no pictures were taken. Some pictures below are from a fellow Head-fier here, hopefully he/she wouldn't mind.

Initial measurement shows the audio band noise to be at 1.5mV (max vol) and 1.2mV (min vol), mostly power-line related, which is borderline as a high-impedance headphone amp, and is not acceptable as a pre-amp.

Hum_FFT.PNG


Three major factors contribute to the hum:
  • Wire routing
  • AC heater supply
  • HV supply noise
  1. Wire routing
The 3 major routing problems are highlighted in the picture below. The green line is the input-output loop. The power trans is offset in the loop, and the leakage flux cannot cancel out very well. For the shielded wires, the designer chose to connect only one end of the shield to ground, trying to avoid a ground loop. But the loop is still there, and the induced noise is applied to the signal line now that the ground is disconnected.

The cyan line is the output loop. It also picks up stray magnetic field leaked from the trans, and added it directly to the output.

The red line is the AC heater supply line. The designer seems to know how to twist the AC heater supply lines properly from the trans to the LED board, then changed to straight parallel lines pretty far apart from each other, a clear no-no for routing AC heater supplies.

problem.jpg


To fix the wiring issue, the input and output wires were re-arranged into a "Y" topology, minimizing the area of the loop . I had to use new input cables as the old one was glued to the chassis. Both ends of the shield are now connected to ground. The ground connection between the input and output at the rear RCA connector PCB are cut, but the left and right channels still share the same ground. The big filter capacitors were moved slightly to make room for the cables to pass in between.
IO_Wiring.jpg


The excess ground wires were removed (see red crosses). The two red circles indicate unwanted connections between the ground wire and the mounting screws at those locations. Insulating tubes can be added to the mounting standoff to avoid making contact to the wire. The output wire from the 6080 to the load resistors are replaced with shielded wires, with both ends of the shield grounded at the closest locations (dotted lines). Two small patches of copper are exposed on the load resistor PCB near the mounting screws for the ground connection.
A long and thick black wire is added from the common ground of the headphone connector to one of the chassis ground points.

GND_Wiring.jpg


2. AC heater supply
The AC heater supply is the secondary contributor to the hum issue. There is always some coupling from the heater to the cathode. It changes from tube to tube, and may change as tubes age. I prefer a regulated DC heater supply over 'lifted' and/or center-tapped AC heater. However, the heater voltage from the power trans doesn't provide enough headroom for a regulator, so I made a compromise and only changed the 6SJ7 heater to DC. The original heater voltage was too high (7V) and not good for tube life. Resistors are added to bring both heaters down to 6.3V.

3. HV supply filtering
The designer did a good job filtering the HV supply with multiple stages of RCs. The resulting noise at the 6080 anode was about 140uV. Considering that most of it would still make it to the output, I changed one resistor to an electronic filter (a.k.a. capacitor multiplier). This reduced the HV power supply noise to below 40uV. An IGBT was used because I had a few lying around. Most high-voltage MOSFET should work just fine.

339i_sch.png


The result of the above mods is that the audio-band noise reduced to about 60uV, a 26dB improvement in signal-to-noise ratio.

Dist_vs_amp_300_Ohm_compare.PNG


The designer should get credit for finding a nice combination between the 6AS7G/6080 and the 6SJ7 in an unconventional triode connection. We can see that their 2nd order harmonic canceled out quite well until more than 10Vrms of output voltage into a 300 ohm load. This unit looks to be optimized for 300 ohm load, as higher (100k) or lower load would significantly degrade the THD performance.

If we take 10V as the rated max output voltage, the 100dB signal to noise ratio quoted in the spec requires the noise level at about 100uV. This unit originally didn't meet the spec, but can now pass with sufficient margin.

Further improvements:
There are things we could do to further reduce the hum, to the 20uV range that works comfortably as a preamp. First would be a DC heater supply. If we connect two heater windings in series, there would be enough headroom for a regulated DC heater supply. The downside is that it would also add about 8W to the heat dissipation.

The second would be adding a copper shorting ring to the power trans to reduce the leakage flux. A significant part of the remaining hum comes from the leakage flux hitting the 6SJ7 tube directly. Using a metal tube helps a bit.
 
Nov 3, 2021 at 2:32 PM Post #6,580 of 6,903
A friend of mine (who also frequented this thread) recently brought me a 339i with hum issue to look into. I spent some time doing measurement and modifications. The resulting improvement was pretty significant. I hope the analysis and mods here can help other head-fiers to troubleshoot similar problems. It was done in a hurry and no pictures were taken. Some pictures below are from a fellow Head-fier here, hopefully he/she wouldn't mind.

Initial measurement shows the audio band noise to be at 1.5mV (max vol) and 1.2mV (min vol), mostly power-line related, which is borderline as a high-impedance headphone amp, and is not acceptable as a pre-amp.

Hum_FFT.PNG

Three major factors contribute to the hum:
  • Wire routing
  • AC heater supply
  • HV supply noise
  1. Wire routing
The 3 major routing problems are highlighted in the picture below. The green line is the input-output loop. The power trans is offset in the loop, and the leakage flux cannot cancel out very well. For the shielded wires, the designer chose to connect only one end of the shield to ground, trying to avoid a ground loop. But the loop is still there, and the induced noise is applied to the signal line now that the ground is disconnected.

The cyan line is the output loop. It also picks up stray magnetic field leaked from the trans, and added it directly to the output.

The red line is the AC heater supply line. The designer seems to know how to twist the AC heater supply lines properly from the trans to the LED board, then changed to straight parallel lines pretty far apart from each other, a clear no-no for routing AC heater supplies.

problem.jpg

To fix the wiring issue, the input and output wires were re-arranged into a "Y" topology, minimizing the area of the loop . I had to use new input cables as the old one was glued to the chassis. Both ends of the shield are now connected to ground. The ground connection between the input and output at the rear RCA connector PCB are cut, but the left and right channels still share the same ground. The big filter capacitors were moved slightly to make room for the cables to pass in between.
IO_Wiring.jpg

The excess ground wires were removed (see red crosses). The two red circles indicate unwanted connections between the ground wire and the mounting screws at those locations. Insulating tubes can be added to the mounting standoff to avoid making contact to the wire. The output wire from the 6080 to the load resistors are replaced with shielded wires, with both ends of the shield grounded at the closest locations (dotted lines). Two small patches of copper are exposed on the load resistor PCB near the mounting screws for the ground connection.
A long and thick black wire is added from the common ground of the headphone connector to one of the chassis ground points.

GND_Wiring.jpg

2. AC heater supply
The AC heater supply is the secondary contributor to the hum issue. There is always some coupling from the heater to the cathode. It changes from tube to tube, and may change as tubes age. I prefer a regulated DC heater supply over 'lifted' and/or center-tapped AC heater. However, the heater voltage from the power trans doesn't provide enough headroom for a regulator, so I made a compromise and only changed the 6SJ7 heater to DC. The original heater voltage was too high (7V) and not good for tube life. Resistors are added to bring both heaters down to 6.3V.

3. HV supply filtering
The designer did a good job filtering the HV supply with multiple stages of RCs. The resulting noise at the 6080 anode was about 140uV. Considering that most of it would still make it to the output, I changed one resistor to an electronic filter (a.k.a. capacitor multiplier). This reduced the HV power supply noise to below 40uV. An IGBT was used because I had a few lying around. Most high-voltage MOSFET should work just fine.

339i_sch.png

The result of the above mods is that the audio-band noise reduced to about 60uV, a 26dB improvement in signal-to-noise ratio.

Dist_vs_amp_300_Ohm_compare.PNG

The designer should get credit for finding a nice combination between the 6AS7G/6080 and the 6SJ7 in an unconventional triode connection. We can see that their 2nd order harmonic canceled out quite well until more than 10Vrms of output voltage into a 300 ohm load. This unit looks to be optimized for 300 ohm load, as higher (100k) or lower load would significantly degrade the THD performance.

If we take 10V as the rated max output voltage, the 100dB signal to noise ratio quoted in the spec requires the noise level at about 100uV. This unit originally didn't meet the spec, but can now pass with sufficient margin.

Further improvements:
There are things we could do to further reduce the hum, to the 20uV range that works comfortably as a preamp. First would be a DC heater supply. If we connect two heater windings in series, there would be enough headroom for a regulated DC heater supply. The downside is that it would also add about 8W to the heat dissipation.

The second would be adding a copper shorting ring to the power trans to reduce the leakage flux. A significant part of the remaining hum comes from the leakage flux hitting the 6SJ7 tube directly. Using a metal tube helps a bit.

I recently have my 339i modified by my friend. I believe the idea is quite similar and he ended up with 30db reduction in the hum!
 
Nov 3, 2021 at 5:25 PM Post #6,581 of 6,903
So the 339i will not work with 6SN7 tubes?
No, not directly. The 339i has the 6SJ7 in a non-conventional triode connection (G2 and G3 as anode, original anode to GND as shield). The triode-connected 6SJ7 comes close to the characteristics of a 6J5 (half of a 6SN7). You could build an adapter to convert a 6J5 to a 6SJ7 in the 339i. The gain is a little higher with 6J5, but 6J5 seems to be more linear so the distortion-canceling with 6080 doesn't work as nicely as a 6SJ7. Theoretically, you can also build an adapter from half a 6SN7 to 6SJ7 for the 339i.

Another issue is that the 6J5 and 6SJ7 both have heater rated at 6.3V, 0.3A, but the 6SN7's heater is rated at twice the power, 6.3V, 0.6A. The heater winding in the power trans will have a heavier load if you use a 6SN7. I'm not sure about the originally designed current capacity of the heater winding, but going over is generally not recommended.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 6:15 PM Post #6,582 of 6,903
Listening the HE1000se + 339i now (with classical 5693 + 5998). Great for various genres from classical to vocal to rock.

With 339i, HE1000se is more enjoyable than the THX amps. It is overall a better can than Verite Open, which I also enjoy in a different way.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Post #6,584 of 6,903
Interesting that planar HP plays well with OTL amp. Could You elaborate a bit more why it is better than verite open?

Just a different taste and different setup. HE1000se works quite well without any EQ, and the VO needs some EQ for different genres.

For example VO works quite well on pop/rock without EQ, but I have to use the crinacle EQ to enjoy classical music.
 
Nov 4, 2021 at 7:12 PM Post #6,585 of 6,903
Just a different taste and different setup. HE1000se works quite well without any EQ, and the VO needs some EQ for different genres.

For example VO works quite well on pop/rock without EQ, but I have to use the crinacle EQ to enjoy classical music.
Interesting. What exactly You aim to achieve with EQ? (Eg More treble, less bass?)
 

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