[scottiebabie]

 
With that said, I believe the 007/009 is a cut above everything - that is, especially when driven by a BHSE/KGSSHV KG derived amplifier.

 
cool! i think im getting a firmer grip on what i want now. i'll either have to pickup a set of HE6 to play with or one of the above KG derived amps to start experimenting with.
 
when u say the 007/009 is a cut above everything, can u elaborate further? ie what is above, how is it above & to what extent?  

 

[paradoxper]

Just about everything is better - the speed, resolve, clarity, balance. 
 
I can go into more detail in PM as to not derail this thread, if you'd like.

 

[scottiebabie]

  Just about everything is better - the speed, resolve, clarity, balance. 
 
I can go into more detail in PM as to not derail this thread, if you'd like.

 
yaa that would be greatly appreciated. i'll shoot u a pm to take this further if u dont mind.
 
that said, i would think any esp950 iowner would want to know where the koss stands in the whole scheme of things. esp how much they can push the performance envelope & what they can expect if they take the next step to the final frontier so to speak. i think besides being a good starter e-stat setup, the koss can also serve as a standard whereby one can have a basis to compare with. 
 
so long as it pertains to the esp950 directly or indirectly, it should be relevant to this thread.

 

[Rossliew]

   
yaa that would be greatly appreciated. i'll shoot u a pm to take this further if u dont mind.
 
that said, i would think any esp950 iowner would want to know where the koss stands in the whole scheme of things. esp how much they can push the performance envelope & what they can expect if they take the next step to the final frontier so to speak. i think besides being a good starter e-stat setup, the koss can also serve as a standard whereby one can have a basis to compare with.
 
so long as it pertains to the esp950 directly or indirectly, it should be relevant to this thread.

I once had the 950 driven by the KGST - i had thought this would be end game but boy, was I wrong. The sound improved slightly but it did not scale as expected. All in all, it didn't sound quite right and i think the 950 was struggling to keep up with the performance of the KGST. Everything fell into place once I got the 007s.
 
Having said that, yes i agree with you that the Koss is a very good starter or introduction into the world of e-stats.

 

[Sorrodje]

   
thanks. im interpreting your words meaning that the koss no matter how good an amp,  isnt & will not be an endgame headphones. as reference, i do find the HD800 worthy of endgame status despite its flaws. i still find the Senn tonally leaner than i'd like & ofcourse a bigger bottom interms of weight + smooth(er) to more Esp950. the HD800 would be perfect to my ear if it can incorporate the above retaining what it has now.

 
I know we're in a kind of anteroom of the Stax mafia territrory

but I will dare to say I do think the HD800 deserves a end game status too. In fact, we are not  alone and there's many examples of people who sold their Stax rig for a totl HD800 rig. There're many people who went the other way. I do thing the Summit of headphone world is large enough to accept many headphones around which we can build a end game rig. it seems many people build a eng game rig with some orthos too.
 

 

[Rossliew]

Ideally, i would like to have 3 end game rigs - electrostatics, dynamics and ortho-dynamics. But that's just me 

 

[jonbernard]

  I will say that the leather carrying case mine came in smells of mothballs or my grandparent's closet. I probably got one built in the 80s.

 
Mine (bought last spring) had the same smell.

 

[Avi]

With the 009 costing somewhere between 3 and 5 times the price of the ESP, and make that closer to 5 to 7 if you factor in the amp, I sould HOPE it sounds better
 
Does it sound 400% - 600% better, though? Because you can get an ESP for around 600-700 (1000 list). An 009+323 will cost more like 4K list. So on sale, 3K?
 
Someone needs to create a rule of something like
 
"Quality of audio components rise in logarithmic proportion to price"
 

 

[preproman]

   
Does it sound 400% - 600% better, though? 

 
What in this game does?

 

[Avi]

Exactly
 
Thus, "Avi's law of logarithmic enhancement"

 

[Sorrodje]

  With the 009 costing somewhere between 3 and 5 times the price of the ESP, and make that closer to 5 to 7 if you factor in the amp, I sould HOPE it sounds better
 
Does it sound 400% - 600% better, though? Because you can get an ESP for around 600-700 (1000 list). An 009+323 will cost more like 4K list. So on sale, 3K?
 
Someone needs to create a rule of something like
 
"Quality of audio components rise in logarithmic proportion to price"
 

 
I think % of improvement do not make sense. If you're after absolute sound, the last subtle improvements to achieve your goal can worth a lot of time and a lot of money. For people who just want to listen music in good enough conditions, that seems absolutely crazy.
 
One other point is when you have a really Summit Headphone, downgrading to last stellar offers can be really disappointing although going the other way is not so impressive.

 

[darinf]

  With the 009 costing somewhere between 3 and 5 times the price of the ESP, and make that closer to 5 to 7 if you factor in the amp, I sould HOPE it sounds better
 
Does it sound 400% - 600% better, though? Because you can get an ESP for around 600-700 (1000 list). An 009+323 will cost more like 4K list. So on sale, 3K?
 
Someone needs to create a rule of something like
 
"Quality of audio components rise in logarithmic proportion to price"
 

That is generally a well known fact among audiophiles that sonic improvements are nowhere near linear with respect to the cost. The last 10% of performance can cost many many times more at the top end. If you could just tack on 10% of the price to get to 100% audio perfection, everyone would do it.

 

[doctorjazz]

Absolutely an old adage, "diminishing returns", early improvements are a sort of "low hanging fruit", not as difficult to come by as the last 10% (pick your arbitrary percent...never did figure out how people give numerical values to these subjective attributes, but that's just me). If you're the sort that must have the "absolute best" (which, again, doesn't exist, there are different "bests", no gear reproduces "the absolute sound" as they like to call it. It's not even clear what "the absolute sound" means, unless you were there, and it was acoustic instruments in a live environment, you have no idea what was done in the mix and other manipulations of the sound), you gotta put up the bucks. For most of us, getting most of the way there without breaking the bank will have to suffice.
My $0.02

 

[Avi]

 

  With the 009 costing somewhere between 3 and 5 times the price of the ESP, and make that closer to 5 to 7 if you factor in the amp, I sould HOPE it sounds better
 
Does it sound 400% - 600% better, though? Because you can get an ESP for around 600-700 (1000 list). An 009+323 will cost more like 4K list. So on sale, 3K?
 
Someone needs to create a rule of something like
 
"Quality of audio components rise in logarithmic proportion to price"
 

That is generally a well known fact among audiophiles that sonic improvements are nowhere near linear with respect to the cost. The last 10% of performance can cost many many times more at the top end. If you could just tack on 10% of the price to get to 100% audio perfection, everyone would do it.

I know it's well known; my wallet can attest to effect it has had on me this past decade or two. I am just implementing Stigler's law of eponymy and naming the phenomenon

 

[scottiebabie]

if it was all about bang for the buck, i feel a recabled HD600 with a Gilmore Lite will bring us 80-85% of the way there. its well balanced, solidly capable & resolving enough (& strangely forgiving enough) to be good for almost all genres. best of all, one can easily assemble that setup for <$1k & much less if buying used. if i didnt know better, i think i can live happily ever after. YMMV ofcourse.
 
however the quest for the best was & is never about bang for the buck and there in lies the rub. yes the logarithmic scale of deminishing returns bites & bites extremely hard. cant speak for others but my journey lies in finding a setup that will not just put a large smile on my face & but that will also allow me to not miss my speakers. not quite so easy esp when there are so much choices esp with the diversity of opinions & passions in these parts.
 
for me, this quest truly begun when i finally understood my wants & needs. thanks to the words of a headfier, i believe my befuddled wandering has ended. i know as fact, it wont be inexpensive but i do believe that its worth pursuing. afterall isnt that what this odyssey is all about 

 
 
addon: forgot to thank paradoxper for the invaluable advise given. thanks again Cory