[baskingshark]

it only gets worse..

HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.

i unsoldered the tweeter DDs one by one hoping to plot the different frequency ranges of the drivers and turns out every frequency is managed by the one big driver.



It's about time KZ gets exposed for this. Some of these drivers are decorative, i feel like I've been lied to.

I am not a KZ fan, but this is not surprising in CHIFI-land.

Won't be surprised some of these multi driver behemoths in budget CHIFI sets also have BAs that are there for decoration only.

 

[DeltaAudio]

incase you need some more evidence that some of the drivers in the DQ6/DQ6S are fake:

The little sound tube going from the smaller drivers to the nozzle is closed off on some pairs of DQ6.

My friends keep telling me that their pair's sound tube appears blocked off, one of my friends doesn't even have a sound tube in his DQ6S at all!

 

[saldsald]

incase you need some more evidence that some of the drivers in the DQ6/DQ6S are fake:



The little sound tube going from the smaller drivers to the nozzle is closed off on some pairs of DQ6.

My friends keep telling me that their pair's sound tube appears blocked off, one of my friends doesn't even have a sound tube in his DQ6S at all!




#ExposeKZ

I have posted these some time ago last year. If you really think you can figure out what's inside a transparent shell by looking through it, think again. And don't be lazy not to even measure the FR of the other drives without the main DD.

 

[DeltaAudio]

I have posted these some time ago last year. If you really think you can figure out what's inside a transparent shell by looking through it, think again. And don't be lazy not to even measure the FR of the other drives without the main DD.

Nice pics, are you trying to say that my evidence is invalid because your specific unit has the hole?

my left unit has a (clogged with resin) hole that goes all the way to the DD. i guess that means these are legit after all.

 

[saldsald]

Nice pics, are trying to say that my evidence is invalid because your specific unit has the hole?




my left unit has a (clogged with resin) hole that goes all the way to the DD. i guess that means these are legit after all.

The answer is so obvious. It means your copy maybe defective.

 

[DeltaAudio]

The answer is so obvious. It means your copy maybe defective.

My DQ6s copy is not defective. This is the intended sound signature tuned by HBB. My unit has consistent frequency matching and it also coincides with the frequency response graphs of other fellow reviewers.

My measurements were of course taken before I opened my unit incase you were wondering.

 

[saldsald]

My DQ6s copy is not defective. This is the intended sound signature tuned by HBB. My unit has consistent frequency matching and it also coincides with the frequency response graphs of other fellow reviewers.


My measurements were of course taken before I opened my unit incase you were wondering.

You are saying this because you don't understand SPL which is fine. All budget IEMs are tuned with a full frequency DD with a very dominant FR and the FR of the supplementary drivers are there for the addition of detail which is almost always shadowed by the main driver due to the relative low loudness. If you measure the normalized FR of the smaller drivers and the main driver and add up the curves in log scale you are almost not gonna see a difference just like your measurements. The circuit you see in all these IEMs are not real crossovers but for the addition of multi-drivers.

The first thing you should really do is replace the main DD with a resistor of the same value and measure the FR of remaining drivers. While this is not a 100% accurate method to simulate the impedance of the DD it should be close enough.

 

[DeltaAudio]

You are saying this because you don't understand SPL which is fine. All budget IEMs are tuned with a full frequency DD with a very dominant FR and the FR of the supplementary drivers are there for the addition of detail which is almost always shadowed by the main driver due to the relative low loudness. If you measure the normalized FR of the smaller drivers and the main driver and add up the curves in log scale you are almost not gonna see a difference just like your measurements. The circuit you see in all these IEMs are not real crossovers but for the addition of multi-drivers.

The first thing you should really do is replace the main DD with a resistor of the same value and measure the FR of remaining drivers. While this is not a 100% accurate method to simulate the impedance of the DD it should be close enough.

interesting feedback, I didn't know that if you start unsoldering the drivers the frequency graph is not supposed to change. i will conduct experiments to learn more. thanks

 

[DeltaAudio]

I just conducted an experiment:

Using the TRN V90S, a six-driver hybrid iem, i wanted to see if disconnecting the drivers would result in an actual decrease in something like the treble or bass.

I started with the BA furthest from the nozzle, after unsoldering one of the contacts and remeasuring the sound, the resultant changes to the FR were minimal. A slight increase to the treble area is observed, suggesting that the driver had inverted polarity or was just causing an impedance drop.

Unsoldering one of the mid BAs yeilded the same FR as before.

Unsoldering the other mid BA also resulted in no measurable difference to the sound. Further supporting saldsald in his case.

The last two BA are positioned in the nozzle, unsoldering the contacts from those BA actually resulted in the graphs i expected. There is a drastic drop in the treble region and the sound is noticeably softer and duller in listening.

Some drivers seem to contribute nothing to the overall sound, and some drivers work as can be expected.

 

[seanwee]

So the two 6mm make no sound without the 10mm disconnected? Is there a crossover? My guess would be no, which means that the two 6mm drivers are additive. Not really a scandal either way. These 10mm driver units are used as full range single DD IEM all over the place.

Yeah thats what i was thinking. Rather than showing the same graph, a graph of what the extra drivers do without the main driver would be more insightful to what they contribute.

I just conducted an experiment:


Using the TRN V90S, a six-driver hybrid iem, i wanted to see if disconnecting the drivers would result in an actual decrease in something like the treble or bass.



I started with the BA furthest from the nozzle, after unsoldering one of the contacts and remeasuring the sound, the resultant changes to the FR were minimal. A slight increase to the treble area is observed, suggesting that the driver had inverted polarity or was just causing an impedance drop.


Unsoldering one of the mid BAs yeilded the same FR as before.


Unsoldering the other mid BA also resulted in no measurable difference to the sound. Further supporting saldsald in his case.


The last two BA are positioned in the nozzle, unsoldering the contacts from those BA actually resulted in the graphs i expected. There is a drastic drop in the treble region and the sound is noticeably softer and duller in listening.

Some drivers seem to contribute nothing to the overall sound, and some drivers work as can be expected.

In BA iems, it is common practice to have multiple drivers playing the same thing to increase the tonal weight of the iems by pushing more air so it is expected that the fr won't always change when some drivers are removed.

You are saying this because you don't understand SPL which is fine. All budget IEMs are tuned with a full frequency DD with a very dominant FR and the FR of the supplementary drivers are there for the addition of detail which is almost always shadowed by the main driver due to the relative low loudness. If you measure the normalized FR of the smaller drivers and the main driver and add up the curves in log scale you are almost not gonna see a difference just like your measurements. The circuit you see in all these IEMs are not real crossovers but for the addition of multi-drivers.

The first thing you should really do is replace the main DD with a resistor of the same value and measure the FR of remaining drivers. While this is not a 100% accurate method to simulate the impedance of the DD it should be close enough.

Rather than use an equivalent resistor, why not just remove the main DD from the housing and leave it hanging outside the shell when running FR measurements? That seems to be the simplest way

 

[saldsald]

Yeah thats what i was thinking. Rather than showing the same graph, a graph of what the extra drivers do without the main driver would be more insightful to what they contribute.


In BA iems, it is common practice to have multiple drivers playing the same thing to increase the tonal weight of the iems by pushing more air so it is expected that the fr won't always change when some drivers are removed.


Rather than use an equivalent resistor, why not just remove the main DD from the housing and leave it hanging outside the shell when running FR measurements? That seems to be the simplest way

Because:
1. you will need a special resin glue dissolving agent;
2. you will risk damaging the shell and the driver;
3. by removing the driver you will change the front cavity size which I think is a major tuning factor;
4. You will also need to open up the front part of the IEM which can be irreversible (don't do this with the DQ6/DQ6s!)

 

[saldsald]

I just conducted an experiment:


Using the TRN V90S, a six-driver hybrid iem, i wanted to see if disconnecting the drivers would result in an actual decrease in something like the treble or bass.



I started with the BA furthest from the nozzle, after unsoldering one of the contacts and remeasuring the sound, the resultant changes to the FR were minimal. A slight increase to the treble area is observed, suggesting that the driver had inverted polarity or was just causing an impedance drop.


Unsoldering one of the mid BAs yeilded the same FR as before.


Unsoldering the other mid BA also resulted in no measurable difference to the sound. Further supporting saldsald in his case.


The last two BA are positioned in the nozzle, unsoldering the contacts from those BA actually resulted in the graphs i expected. There is a drastic drop in the treble region and the sound is noticeably softer and duller in listening.

Actually quite interesting to see how the V90s is tuned here as I also have it. The extra treble extension as shown on your last graph indicates it is purely BA sound. The FR graphs of TRN's hybrid are less typical and usually have strange peaks and your measurements explain why.

Some drivers seem to contribute nothing to the overall sound, and some drivers work as can be expected.

Not to the overall sound I believe, just the SPL.

 

[DeltaAudio]

Not to the overall sound I believe, just the SPL.

ok

 

[jananan78]

the plot thickens... for real this time. i wonder if multi driver iems from other manufacturers show the same response with some drivers removed. I know some use real crossovers and some even allow tuning like the fiio fh5s

 

[Tzennn]

Personally i don't fully agree with "these extra driver ain't working properly" but rather they impact the sounds just slightly so that they don't effect too much in the sounds
I have NRA, ZEX (pro and non pro) and all of them have the same grain/ whispiness / edgy of being est while DQ6 have resonance because they have a tube like the pic shown below
But again, they can just do one DD iem like CRA and they will sound awesome. Love the NRA and DQ6 sound tho