[vladstef]

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response

I wanna discuss harman target for in-ears headphones
i see
1) a good sub bass boost and lowered upper mid bass to reduce mid bass bleed and muddiness which is good
2) a high peak at 3khz which i dont understand (for better harmonics maybe)
3) a relatively high 8khz need explanation for that (better cymbals maybe)
4) a sharp rolloff at 16khz for in ears ( why not 20khz?)

i was looking for one ideal allround equalization for my KZ ES4 and Rose North Forest separately so i came across this article posted here in some thread i dont remember

I think that the sub boost is a bit too much (remember, they are trying to find flat response) but everything else I agree with. Without a proper boost of 8-10dB starting at 1K and peaking at 3K voices become dark and not clear enough. Sharp rolloff in the end is irrelevant, there is almost no information above 15K meaning that you can do pretty much whatever you want here with frequency response without damaging anything.
Since we are on the KZ topic, I'd say that pretty much all of the hybrid KZs have a boosted 2K, that is, they even peak at 2K in some instances which is very low actually (in my experience, it's better to peak later than 3K then much earlier), then there is a huge dip where treble information is lost and a not ideal peak around 10K.

 

[Zerohour88]

They need to make a reference tuning first before they add more drivers. The ZS10 is too recessed for normal use. They nailed the budget end but still haven't figured out how to match high end yet.

High-end to me is the $1k range, that's too big a jump to match. Some chi-fi are only starting to make the leap to mid-end, like the IT04 and to some extent the newly announced FH5. Seeing as how the LZ BD didn't really make a large splash despite the SQ speaks volume. Mind share of more established brands is hard to beat.

An all BA model from KZ interests me in that its a sensible way to cheaply tune an IEM rather than design a mind-blowing DD or BA tech.

 

[dhruvmeena96]

I think that the sub boost is a bit too much (remember, they are trying to find flat response) but everything else I agree with. Without a proper boost of 8-10dB starting at 1K and peaking at 3K voices become dark and not clear enough. Sharp rolloff in the end is irrelevant, there is almost no information above 15K meaning that you can do pretty much whatever you want here with frequency response without damaging anything.
Since we are on the KZ topic, I'd say that pretty much all of the hybrid KZs have a boosted 2K, that is, they even peak at 2K in some instances which is very low actually (in my experience, it's better to peak later than 3K then much earlier), then there is a huge dip where treble information is lost and a not ideal peak around 10K.

I think there is info above 15khz...I have to boost 16kHz to a point where I hear a certain ring....

And it has been notified on hypersonic paper in Japan, that blind test showed that boosted high frequency is indeed noticeable.

But you have to boost it to audible level or drop other frequency. It does increase some info about sound. Well try on neutralizer and see yourself...it does make sound somewhat properly airy...

But regarding fundamental info and harmonic info, high frequency above 14kHz does not effect(it just effect the overall perceiving of sound)

Bass below 20Hz is felt rather than heard and something above 15kHz is also the same. You can feel the proper imaging.

Well for that you also need high bit rate and frequency file

So that when audio engineer and producer makes the sound of 20kHz and 17kHz at same level...you see a dip at
(20-17=3khz) but why don't we notice it....simple because the roll of treble can't make dB effect on 3kHz that much.(some iem maker boost 2kHz or 3kHz for that reason also).

But when high freq is in consideration...they add unwanted high freq tone data to music because then they can transfer the freq data to non audible region.

So let's take 40kHz played with 17kHz

40-17=23

Dip will occur on 23kHz...which will not effect our audible range.

So high res and other things are not bull...its just that you need a higher data file with supported DAC to actually get full effect out of High red earphone.


Why I told to boost 16kHz, because it will boost all other frequency nearby it, getting the roll of range out 20kHz range somewhat and get you a good sound effect.


It may sound a little confusing but bare with it....

Ask me about this thing on PM if you want...

I don't wanna spoil this thread with science

LoL

 

[ChaoticKinesis]

Need some help by you guys:

My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.

One thing that I really look for in IEMs is clarity. I hate muddy sound/bass just as much as sharp highs which mask much of the subtle sounds that may exist in a song.

I prefer a slightly more natural sound signature as well. I don't really like exaggerated bass or treble, though generally I'd say I like it if there is some mid-range-dominance, but honestly, only if it isn't excessive.

I generally welcome it it if the IEMs have a bit more of a "fun" sound signature, but really only if it is within a range which can be considered not-too-far-off of natural.

Got any advice for me?

Thanks in advance!

If you want midrange dominance, stay the hell away from KZ. They haven't made a single hybrid without at least somewhat recessed mids. You would like the TinAudio T2.

Edit: Going to point out that "fun" signature typically means a slightly boosted mid-bass and treble. Most KZs do fit into this. However, in the prior paragraph you said you were not looking for all those things. If you are, most would agree that KZ ES4 and ED16 are the best options right now.

 

[eruditass]

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response

I wanna discuss harman target for in-ears headphones
i see
1) a good sub bass boost and lowered upper mid bass to reduce mid bass bleed and muddiness which is good
2) a high peak at 3khz which i dont understand (for better harmonics maybe)
3) a relatively high 8khz need explanation for that (better cymbals maybe)
4) a sharp rolloff at 16khz for in ears ( why not 20khz?)

i was looking for one ideal allround equalization for my KZ ES4 and Rose North Forest separately so i came across this article posted here in some thread i dont remember

2 and 4 are mostly from loudspeakers equalized to flat in a free-field, probably the effects of ear/pinna resonances. 1 is a listener preference on headphones. Here's a plot of the original harman curve vs flat loudspeakers. 3 is new from their in-ears test and it's not clear if it's from equalized loudspeakers or preference. If anyone can grab those AES articles...

 

[loomisjohnson]

Need some help by you guys:

My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.

One thing that I really look for in IEMs is clarity. I hate muddy sound/bass just as much as sharp highs which mask much of the subtle sounds that may exist in a song.

I prefer a slightly more natural sound signature as well. I don't really like exaggerated bass or treble, though generally I'd say I like it if there is some mid-range-dominance, but honestly, only if it isn't excessive.

I generally welcome it it if the IEMs have a bit more of a "fun" sound signature, but really only if it is within a range which can be considered not-too-far-off of natural.

Got any advice for me?

Thanks in advance!

for "natural" i'd suggest either the ed9 or the ed1r--other kzs may have more going on sonically, but sound more colored and/or emphasized at both ends. my other dark horse pick would be the ed10, which has vg overall clarity.

 

[ChaoticKinesis]

2 and 4 are mostly from loudspeakers equalized to flat in a free-field, probably the effects of ear/pinna resonances. 1 is a listener preference on headphones. Here's a plot of the original harman curve vs flat loudspeakers. 3 is new from their in-ears test and it's not clear if it's from equalized loudspeakers or preference. If anyone can grab those AES articles...

I wonder if these revisions have anything to do with equal-loudness curves. The added boosts in bass and treble would make sense if people use IEMs to listen at a lower level than they would listen through speakers. I can't speak for others but I believe this is true for me.

 

[Adide]

I've decided to put aside for a while this "no eq" principle of mine and tried to fix the very technically potent but with tonal flaws (for me at least) zs10.

I'm using the settings below and I like very much how it turned out:
- mids more forward due to hot upper mids/lower trebble (2-4 KHz spike) being dialed down;
- instruments sound natural now due to upper treble roll-off restored;
- while at it I've also dialed down mid bass for a bit - also helps bringing mids forward;
- details, layering, soundstage, separation at best now that it sounds correct (again, for me) sonically.

Maybe other people upset with zs10 flaws might try this and realise how very good these should have sounded if properly tuned in the first place.
No reason not to keep them now I think.

PS: wide bores used to maximize mids and treble exposure.

 

[DocHoliday]

Need some help by you guys:

My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.

One thing that I really look for in IEMs is clarity. I hate muddy sound/bass just as much as sharp highs which mask much of the subtle sounds that may exist in a song.

I prefer a slightly more natural sound signature as well. I don't really like exaggerated bass or treble, though generally I'd say I like it if there is some mid-range-dominance, but honestly, only if it isn't excessive.

I generally welcome it it if the IEMs have a bit more of a "fun" sound signature, but really only if it is within a range which can be considered not-too-far-off of natural.

Got any advice for me?

Thanks in advance!

KZ Acoustics often overlooked middle-child.

The ATR

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews

Sorry, I forgot to mention - it'd be great if the IEMs have a bluetooth module, similar to how KZ sells them.

Of course I'm not limited to KZ and your recommendations look very nice, but I haven't been able to find bluetooth modules for them unfortunately.

If you'd like Bluetooth capability perhaps you'd be better off requesting more feedback on the TRN V20 with Bluetooth cable.

All in your at $50+/-.

 

[Slater]

thanks a lot, sounds interesting. I'll try it. I'm curious how much effort it needs to remove them anyway.

You mean how much effort is takes to remove them after you use the hairspray method? Not much.

It’s not like the hairspray is going to be like superglue or anything that strong. The tips just stay on better with hairspray than without it.

 

[Slater]

I've decided to put aside for a while this "no eq" principle of mine and tried to fix the very technically potent but with tonal flaws (for me at least) zs10.

I'm using the settings below and I like very much how it turned out:
- mids more forward due to hot upper mids/lower trebble (2-4 KHz spike) being dialed down;
- instruments sound natural now due to upper treble roll-off restored;
- while at it I've also dialed down mid bass for a bit - also helps bringing mids forward;
- details, layering, soundstage, separation at best now that it sounds correct (again, for me) sonically.

Maybe other people upset with zs10 flaws might try this and realise how very good these should have sounded if properly tuned in the first place.
No reason not to keep them now I think.

PS: wide bores used to maximize mids and treble exposure.

See, here’s a perfect example of how a simple EQ tweak can turn a frown upside down, saving stuff that would otherwise be destined for the ‘drawer of forgotten gear’.

Kudos to you for giving EQ a chance sir. It is not the evil it has been portrayed to be.

 

[Strat Rider]

EDSE is ED Special Edition. It uses the same zinc alloy shell as the EDR1 but with a different driver. The EDR1 is superior to the EDSE.

I’m with you on the single drivers. I definitely in the camp that believes that you can have awesome sound without the use of BAs. It’s all in the driver and tuning. Dynamic-only IEMs like the Pioneer CH9T and ibasso IT01 run circles around many hybrids.

Since you are looking at wearing the piston style IEMs for the foreseeable future, see if you can track down the HDS3. It’s like a shrink down micro sized EDR2 shell. Very comfy and easy to insert and remove. It’s one of the more neutral sounding KZs, which is rare in their lineup. It’s one of my favorite KZs, and is like a diamond in the rough.

Wow, that bike stuff sounds heavy man. Good luck with the shoulder surgery!

Thanks again @Slater

OK, this is interesting, I bought, from the KZ official store 2ea EDSE. I was sent EDR2's instead. I now have 7 EDR2's and 1 EDR1.
I have been pursuing the EDR1 for a while now, but it feels more like I'm playing a slot machine in Las Vegas.

I am enjoying the EDR1 and definitely going to look into the HDS3, (I love a challenge).
Bright side??? Christmas gift giving got a lot easier. EDR2's for everyone already shopped for my music liking friends.

 

[HungryPanda]

Hairspray is a good tip but also destroys the planet. Don't get me started on plastic.....

 

[Slater]

Hairspray is a good tip but also destroys the planet. Don't get me started on plastic.....

You mean plain old non-aerosol hairspray? You only use a drop or 2 on the end of a qtip. Isn’t hairspray like 95% alcohol? I didn’t know the non-aerosol kind was bad for the environment.

 

[mbwilson111]

You mean plain old non-aerosol hairspray? You only use a drop or 2 on the end of a qtip. Isn’t hairspray like 95% alcohol? I didn’t know the non-aerosol kind was bad for the environment.

Do you mean hair gel? The word "spray" suggests aerosol to me... which I do not want in my air or in my lungs.