[MrBlitzpunk]

I'm an older person in early 30s, i still can hear the harsh cymbals and "sss".
Hell, started to hear treble harshness in BlackPink song that i never heard before with my old gears.
Also, pretty sure several other people complain about the same thing here.

One commenters in crin youtube page noted KZ have that harshness before. But it was masked with midbass and other frequency.
Now Crin leans out the midbass and other freq, that one harshness become more pronounced as the other noise to masked it is gone. Not sure how true it is, but considering some of older KZ treble are downright painful for me but i don't realize that cymbal crash as pronouced like in ZEX Pro, it might be true.

Its a bit annoying because, if its wasn't for that one weakness, this is a great iem.

i've tried some "treble piercing KZs", like the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, none of them bothered me, yes it's bright and shouty but i don't feel fatigued by them (i even used them to sleep sometimes). i didn't even realize how sharp/shouty they sounded before i started using other warmer sets of cans, unlike my gf that almost instantly noticed the sharp treble. i even have the supposed treble cannon that is the Samson Sr850, i don't know where the hate is coming from but for me the treble on SR850 is so smooth compared to the KZs. whereas the Zex Pro is the first headphones that i couldn't listen for long, i forced myself to like it, because where it's good, it's really good. i definitely like the non-recessed and natural sounding mids. so it definitely has a strong point. but i've tried getting used to the treble, and i just couldn't. i kinda envy those who are not bothered by the treble, because this thing could've easily been my EDC.

edit: despite that, i have to say that i really like the direction KZ is heading with their new IEMs. hopefully they learned from ZEX Pro and iterate from that as their new house sound

 

[dharmasteve]

i've tried some "treble piercing KZs", like the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, none of them bothered me, yes it's bright and shouty but i don't feel fatigued by them (i even used them to sleep sometimes). i didn't even realize how sharp/shouty they sounded before i started using other warmer sets of cans, unlike my gf that almost instantly noticed the sharp treble. i even have the supposed treble cannon that is the Samson Sr850, i don't know where the hate is coming from but for me the treble on SR850 is so smooth compared to the KZs. whereas the Zex Pro is the first headphones that i couldn't listen for long, i forced myself to like it, because where it's good, it's really good. i definitely like the non-recessed and natural sounding mids. so it definitely has a strong point. but i've tried getting used to the treble, and i just couldn't. i kinda envy those who are not bothered by the treble, because this thing could've easily been my EDC.

edit: despite that, i have to say that i really like the direction KZ is heading with their new IEMs. hopefully they learned from ZEX Pro and iterate from that as their new house sound

Of course we are all different. Anatomy, tastes, age, tips, cables, and numerous other factors determine how we hear things.
The 8k peak on this KZ ZEX Pro, I hear but find it gives 'edge' which I like.......yet the 8k peak on the original Blon 05 I find hard to listen to, and would call it 'nasty glare', which I really dislike. Of course we are all correct. An 8k peak will affect people differently. and some may even like it on one earphone, yet dislike it on others. Some reviewers find it OK, some dislike it intensely. If someone likes a particular peak, or dislikes it, it is important because everybody has the right to choose something that gives them pleasure as opposed to pain. Also some earphones take to equalisation so that can change how we hear an earphone. We are all different in our subjectivity, which is unique to ourselves, and totally valid.

 

[lushmelody]

Treble is a very tough area to compare across users/listeners.

Other than QC/unit variation, there are a lot of other factors that can influence this treble department:

1) Hearing health - generally the treble frequencies are first to be lost with older age (presbycusis > 50 years old). Also some folks suffer from noise induced hearing loss (occupational/leisure induced), and they lose the 4/6 kHz areas more than other frequencies - this is cause the hair cells that transmit these frequencies are found nearer the outer ear and are the first to die with prolonged loud noise.


https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ganization-for-Standardization_fig1_338597788

For sure a 17 year old is gonna perceive the treble very differently from a 70 year old!


2) Volume played at - also known as the Fletcher Munson curve. Music is perceived to be more V shaped (more bass and treble) at louder volumes, whereas it sounds more U shaped at softer volumes. Hardly anyone mentions the volume they use their gear at, so this is an area of variation. Generally louder volume = shoutier.

3) Eartips - different eartips can tame/boost the treble. Foam tends to dull treble. Even among silicone eartips, the different material/bore length/diameter etc can affect treble perception.

4) Ear anatomy - this affects pinna gain and the perception of upper mids/lower treble region. Even for a healthy folks, some individuals can find a certain IEM shouty whereas another doesn't due to variations in the ear anatomy amplifying certain frequencies. Check out this post by precog: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/precogs-iem-reviews-impressions.937468/page-94#post-16524009

5) Different sources - some sources are brighter/warmer, which can affect treble perception.

6) Music genre - some music genres have more emphasized 8 kHz regions eg more cymbals and highhats in the recording, and they can sound splashy on these recordings, whereas some music genres don't really have much high frequency percussions.



So the adage "we all hear differently" and "different strokes for different folks" is true. Perhaps it is best to follow a reviewer or headfier who you know has similar music preferences or hears similarly to you, then that may be a better gauge.

I have left cables out of this talk, as it inadvertently leads to a flame war and the mods stepping in hahaha.

This is one of the most informative and detailed replies I've read here (also reminded the sad fact that we are... decaying, I guess )

 

[r31ya]

Treble is a very tough area to compare across users/listeners.

Other than QC/unit variation, there are a lot of other factors that can influence this treble department:

1) Hearing health - generally the treble frequencies are first to be lost with older age (presbycusis > 50 years old). Also some folks suffer from noise induced hearing loss (occupational/leisure induced), and they lose the 4/6 kHz areas more than other frequencies - this is cause the hair cells that transmit these frequencies are found nearer the outer ear and are the first to die with prolonged loud noise.


https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ganization-for-Standardization_fig1_338597788

For sure a 17 year old is gonna perceive the treble very differently from a 70 year old!


2) Volume played at - also known as the Fletcher Munson curve. Music is perceived to be more V shaped (more bass and treble) at louder volumes, whereas it sounds more U shaped at softer volumes. Hardly anyone mentions the volume they use their gear at, so this is an area of variation. Generally louder volume = shoutier.

3) Eartips - different eartips can tame/boost the treble. Foam tends to dull treble. Even among silicone eartips, the different material/bore length/diameter etc can affect treble perception.

4) Ear anatomy - this affects pinna gain and the perception of upper mids/lower treble region. Even for a healthy folks, some individuals can find a certain IEM shouty whereas another doesn't due to variations in the ear anatomy amplifying certain frequencies. Check out this post by precog: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/precogs-iem-reviews-impressions.937468/page-94#post-16524009

5) Different sources - some sources are brighter/warmer, which can affect treble perception.

6) Music genre - some music genres have more emphasized 8 kHz regions eg more cymbals and highhats in the recording, and they can sound splashy on these recordings, whereas some music genres don't really have much high frequency percussions.



So the adage "we all hear differently" and "different strokes for different folks" is true. Perhaps it is best to follow a reviewer or headfier who you know has similar music preferences or hears similarly to you, then that may be a better gauge.

I have left cables out of this talk, as it inadvertently leads to a flame war and the mods stepping in hahaha.

Oh, yeah. i forgot to thank you in my previous reply.
This is way more detailed explanation of things that i previously only heard on surface level.

I listen to several "newer" kz that are considered sibilant, it doesn't bother me much. Unlike ear torture that is older gen KZ.
Things like KZ ZS5 is pretty damn harsh, then they up the harshness game with KZ ZS6. Not sure on the why.

But from KZ ZS7, ZS10 and the rest, its mostly already have "softer" treble.

 

[dharmasteve]

This is one of the most informative and detailed replies I've read here (also reminded the sad fact that we are... decaying, I guess )

Or maybe becoming more tolerant as time goes by. Growing.

 

[seanwee]

i've tried some "treble piercing KZs", like the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, none of them bothered me, yes it's bright and shouty but i don't feel fatigued by them (i even used them to sleep sometimes). i didn't even realize how sharp/shouty they sounded before i started using other warmer sets of cans, unlike my gf that almost instantly noticed the sharp treble. i even have the supposed treble cannon that is the Samson Sr850, i don't know where the hate is coming from but for me the treble on SR850 is so smooth compared to the KZs. whereas the Zex Pro is the first headphones that i couldn't listen for long, i forced myself to like it, because where it's good, it's really good. i definitely like the non-recessed and natural sounding mids. so it definitely has a strong point. but i've tried getting used to the treble, and i just couldn't. i kinda envy those who are not bothered by the treble, because this thing could've easily been my EDC.

edit: despite that, i have to say that i really like the direction KZ is heading with their new IEMs. hopefully they learned from ZEX Pro and iterate from that as their new house sound

CCA CRA?

KZ could copy and perhaps improve upon Crin's tuning and make it their own. Its a good start, I just hope they don't waste it.

 

[IEMbiker]

I don't hear 8K peak in my ZEX pro, where compare to my other shouty DIY unit, clearly can see the the less refine 2K, 5k, 8K peak.
What I can say bout my ZEX pro unit is the treble a bit thin sounding, and less mid and upper bass.

Red: ZEX Pro, Cyan: DIY single DD.

DQ6 Mod tuning:

 

[ri_toast]

I like to look at Frequency Response (FR) graphs. For instance I personally don't like the old shrill treble and need my bass.

In fact if anyone (KZ) is listening. The reason I listen to headphones is to hear sub-bass and bass in detail. It is so difficult to get good sound reproduction in the (sub-)bass frequencies with speakers. The best speakers I've ever owned were JBL cinema speakers. Here's the thing, the problem with FR graphs is you might get the frequencies but there is a marked difference to the quality and in the detail of the bass representation.

You can't make detailed bass with a speaker without spending a lot of money. So if you make or listen to bass music you want to hear it in detail. The very best sub bass (*and the rest of the frequencies) I've heard from anything apart from a multi mega dollar concert experience is from my ASX BA headphones. It's the detail/resolution that's amazing. I am convinced there is more to be had from this technology.

I think there is a huge market for super accurate IEMs that have detail and resolution and can span the frequency range in a way that can be said to be accurate. There's probably a market for super accurate detailed IEMS within that range as well, accurate, sub bass hyped, mids hyped, treble hyped. But only if there is super detailed represention. You can't get that information with a FR graph. My not so super educated position is DDs can't do this kind of resolution. From the sound of it planars can but they don't do bass or even sub-bass well.

It will be BA tech that will move this tech forward. Less focus on the amount of drivers in a earpiece and more on FR with quality.

"You can't make detailed bass with a speaker without spending a lot of money"
one word.....sub-woofer

 

[evasb]

I don't hear 8K peak in my ZEX pro, where compare to my other shouty DIY unit, clearly can see the the less refine 2K, 5k, 8K peak.
What I can say bout my ZEX pro unit is the treble a bit thin sounding, and less mid and upper bass.

Red: ZEX Pro, Cyan: DIY single DD.


DQ6 Mod tuning:

How your DQ6 mod works?

 

[Capo Dei Capi]

I don't hear 8K peak in my ZEX pro, where compare to my other shouty DIY unit, clearly can see the the less refine 2K, 5k, 8K peak.
What I can say bout my ZEX pro unit is the treble a bit thin sounding, and less mid and upper bass.

Red: ZEX Pro, Cyan: DIY single DD.


DQ6 Mod tuning:

I see no problems regarding the 8k peak. My pair is damn near perfect for the money. I don't use my DQ6 anymore.

But what i want to know, is how does the ZEX Pro compare the tri starsea?

 

[evasb]

Is LCP (liquid crystal polymer) expensive?

Thinking about a reason why KZ didn't use it already. (I know they have their new thin diaphragm)

 

[Viber]

Is LCP (liquid crystal polymer) expensive?

Thinking about a reason why KZ didn't use it already. (I know they have their new thin diaphragm)

They retail for about 15-20$. I'm guessing KZ can get them for less than half of that number.

 

[IEMbiker]

How your DQ6 mod works?

I use high density tuning foam from ali express and stuff into the nozzle.
Example:

 

[RikudouGoku]

I use high density tuning foam from ali express and stuff into the nozzle.
Example:

This mod huh? Your graph must look different because you probably dont have an IEC711 coupler?

 

[Viber]

I wonder how the old 18$ CCA C10 does Vs. the new budget KZs.
I have a feeling they provide similar value...