SybilLance
100+ Head-Fier
Removed as courtesy.
Last edited:
Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread
- Thread starter bhazard
- Start date
dhruvmeena96
Headphoneus Supremus
..........................................
Last edited:
CoiL
Member of the Trade: Wood Audio Accessories & Modifications
Nice simple explanation.
That "impact" of ZSN comes mainly from mid-bass area and EQ can`t alway resolve/eliminate unwanted "problems". That`s why properly tuned driver is very important.
But this is all very subjective too. I personally hate every bit of raised mid-bass. I get fatigue from it very fast and my ears start "to hear" that area dominating.
Edited out some unneeded content.
Our hearing, gear and preferences are different and subjective and my subjective opinion about ZSN was that it doesn`t do sub-bass so well as it could do (without EQ) compared to other IEMs. I mean, for example when I compare ZSN sub-bass with IT01, there is noticeable "roll-off" in my eyes&ears down from about 45Hz @ ZSN.
Note that I`m not bass-head and have reduced my IT01 whole bass area with modification (sub-bass tad more than mid-bass). In stock, IT01 sub-bass was tad too much and "overtaking" mid-bass. Now if someone could slightly bring down ZSN mid-bass area, it would be much more linear and "diving" in bass range and also midrange would be slightly more "revealed".
Last edited:
I've been reading for over a hundred pages now and it's starting to get annoying to have to read 10 pages to have information and opinions on the topic (kz products). I don't care about a little off topic here and there (like the car analogy that happened once, that was fun).
I have learned a lot by staying here for a while, but now that I understood how ChiFi worked and more on how IEMs are made, I'm ready to do my research alone.
I really don't care about the cable differences (does it work? Yes, then it's all good), what sub bass' frequency range is (if it shakes its sub bass for me) and the unconditional love for FR graphs, it's good to know how something sounds in a controlled environment but it's not a real representation of how it will sound to ME.
Anyway, rant over. (still love you guys, you're all cool, mostly (appart from that guy that was always saying that the RN qt2 is the best thing in the world...))
Going back on KZ stuff, my sister asked me before Christmas if she could have an adapter to plus her iPhone earbuds (lightning cable, not 3.5mm) into her new Samsung galaxy. Of course my first reaction was ewwwwww. So I promptly made her try my ZSN with some music that she likes and she simply said : "they're really good". So now I don't have my purple ZSN anymore
I don't know if I'll buy another one, it sounded really good but I think I like my AS10 more for now and I want to try other brands too.
I have learned a lot by staying here for a while, but now that I understood how ChiFi worked and more on how IEMs are made, I'm ready to do my research alone.
I really don't care about the cable differences (does it work? Yes, then it's all good), what sub bass' frequency range is (if it shakes its sub bass for me) and the unconditional love for FR graphs, it's good to know how something sounds in a controlled environment but it's not a real representation of how it will sound to ME.
Anyway, rant over. (still love you guys, you're all cool, mostly (appart from that guy that was always saying that the RN qt2 is the best thing in the world...))
Going back on KZ stuff, my sister asked me before Christmas if she could have an adapter to plus her iPhone earbuds (lightning cable, not 3.5mm) into her new Samsung galaxy. Of course my first reaction was ewwwwww. So I promptly made her try my ZSN with some music that she likes and she simply said : "they're really good". So now I don't have my purple ZSN anymore
I don't know if I'll buy another one, it sounded really good but I think I like my AS10 more for now and I want to try other brands too.
CoiL
Member of the Trade: Wood Audio Accessories & Modifications
With joking - You should then "swallow down" my branding & logo and wait for proper full-wood housing (which is still in endless testing and changing)
dhruvmeena96
Headphoneus Supremus
The wordWith joking - You should then "swallow down" my branding & logo and wait for proper full-wood housing (which is still in endless testing and changing)
With joking
Cannot trust you on that
You can release it like a surprise..... And I am sure of that
mbwilson111
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2016
- Posts
- 9,566
- Likes
- 18,840
Is laughter not allowed on trains?
SybilLance
100+ Head-Fier
I gladly accept your apology, and offer mine in return. Perhaps I was too hasty and too sensitive as regards a contrary reaction to something I've posted. Or perhaps it's the pesky mood swings again. Yesterday I was too irreverent, especially towards dhruvmeena, and now I was certainly too formal with you both. I'm sorry.
But hey, you've suggested I look at ZSN frequency response graphs so I could realize the error of my bass.
I'm never one to back away from a challenge, and so I did, happy to prove you wrong. Not only do I have the graphs, but I had also gone over the 6 extant reviews of the KZ ZSN in headfi.org in order to see if, indeed, the ZSN does not have deep sub-bass, since its bass “rolls off pretty fast.” The latter quoted phrase is understood by me to mean “rolls off rapidly” or “rolls off quickly” or “rolls off sharply.”
First the graphs:
1. From https://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsn-review:
“The KZ ZSN bass is rich and vivacious. Mid-bass is extremely punchy yet not too bouncy nor boomy and sub-bass is very deep.”
A 6 or 7dB drop from 60 Hz to 20 Hz is not “pretty fast” or rapid or quick or sharp by any means. And the reviewer from thephonograph.net (although I've read one or two comments here to the effect his reviews should be taken with a grain of salt) says, I repeat, the "sub-bass is very deep".
2. From https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/:
“The KZ ZSN has a mild V-shaped signature with a particular emphasis on the sub-bass. Apart from the sub-bass the rest of the presentation is fairly balanced but quite lean with a slightly recessed midrange.”
There is approximately a 2.5 dB drop from 50 Hz to 20 Hz, an even more gentle slope. And I underscored and made bold that part where crabdog states, "...with a particular emphasis on the sub-bass."
3. From https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9uhvs3/kz_zsn_frequency_response_chart/:
“Just measured the KZ ZSN, the new $20-ish IEM. It's the bright pink one in the chart.
Just very quick impressions:
Good build quality. Metal plate with nice acrylic housing. Improved cable connector/cable. The sound signature is definitely in line with my personal preferences, which is a welcomed change. Have only listened to two songs with it and seems like a good value already. Not ultra detailed, but really do enjoy the more linear bass response.
Pink: KZ ZSN
Black: KZ AS10
Green: KZ ZSA
Blue: Tin Audio T2
Light Gray: TRN V80
FR IEM Diffuse Field Compensation: https://imgur.com/a/2BVZ89m”
--post by antdroidx
The poster, antdroid, describes the ZSN as having a “more linear bass response.” That much is evident in both the raw and compensated graphs he posted, that I’m happy to say, accurately coincide with what I described hearing, earlier.
Four distinct and separate graphs from three different individuals, two of them well-known in head-fi, that clearly show the ZSN is capable of reproducing deep sub-bass frequencies.
Next the head-fi.org reviews, with direct quotes therefrom, but better placed in a Spoiler:
1. KZ ZSN: $20 has never gone so far
Written by B9Scrambler
Published Oct 27, 2018
“Bass is lovely with great extension and a satisfying balance between mid- and sub-bass. It is nice and quick with impressive double bass articulation as heard on Havok's ‘D.O.A’…”
2. Knowledge Zenith ZSN Realview.
Written by Johnny Mac
Published Nov 17, 2018
“…The ZSN's lows was tested using Deadmau5's Deus Ex Machina track which has a load of sub bass and bass. The sub bass drops are indeed powerful on the ZSN and is sensibly and audibly felt while bass thumps are impactful and has great air giving a fat sound yet still not congesting towards the midrange frequency. This will satisfy basshead cravings.”
3. KZ ZSN | Rating: 8.3
Written by DallaPo
Published Dec 14, 2018
“The bass is really convincing and finds a good balance between sub-bass and mid-bass. It reacts quickly and precisely without slipping into the midrange. It's really fun, as it not only punches well, but is also very accurate tonally, which benefits demanding bass lines.”
4. Mostly good but not without flaws
Written by SweetEars
Published Dec 15, 2018
“…The bass is around the right amount, not too little nor excessive. it has a mild V shaped signature but more forward vocal signature. The mids are in front of u, There is a good surround effect but the the whole sound signature is more forward than with an emphasis on a V shape mid and sub bass. To some, the whole sound signature may look strange or convulated [sic].
The sub bass is adequate...the mid bass is average.”
5. KZ ZSN - Also known as the ZsT version 2.0
Written by Wiljen
Published Dec 18, 2018
“Sub-bass is good in both depth and quantity with good quickness and decay too. It does not have as much rumble of some other Kz models (Zs6) but instead exhibits better control over what it does have. Mid-bass is well controlled as well and is slightly forward of the sub-bass but again not nearly as much as some other Kz models…”
6. KZ ZSN
Written by thelittleaudiophile
Published Thursday at 9:35 PM
“The bass region on the ZSN is thick and visceral. This is paired with a fantastic sub-bass extension and presence which never leaves you wanting more if you are listening to pop or other bass-heavy genres. There is a greater emphasis on mid-bass than sub-bass which I can appreciate – too much sub-bass would devolve into becoming unnatural and quite nauseating for me…”
Written by B9Scrambler
Published Oct 27, 2018
“Bass is lovely with great extension and a satisfying balance between mid- and sub-bass. It is nice and quick with impressive double bass articulation as heard on Havok's ‘D.O.A’…”
2. Knowledge Zenith ZSN Realview.
Written by Johnny Mac
Published Nov 17, 2018
“…The ZSN's lows was tested using Deadmau5's Deus Ex Machina track which has a load of sub bass and bass. The sub bass drops are indeed powerful on the ZSN and is sensibly and audibly felt while bass thumps are impactful and has great air giving a fat sound yet still not congesting towards the midrange frequency. This will satisfy basshead cravings.”
3. KZ ZSN | Rating: 8.3
Written by DallaPo
Published Dec 14, 2018
“The bass is really convincing and finds a good balance between sub-bass and mid-bass. It reacts quickly and precisely without slipping into the midrange. It's really fun, as it not only punches well, but is also very accurate tonally, which benefits demanding bass lines.”
4. Mostly good but not without flaws
Written by SweetEars
Published Dec 15, 2018
“…The bass is around the right amount, not too little nor excessive. it has a mild V shaped signature but more forward vocal signature. The mids are in front of u, There is a good surround effect but the the whole sound signature is more forward than with an emphasis on a V shape mid and sub bass. To some, the whole sound signature may look strange or convulated [sic].
The sub bass is adequate...the mid bass is average.”
5. KZ ZSN - Also known as the ZsT version 2.0
Written by Wiljen
Published Dec 18, 2018
“Sub-bass is good in both depth and quantity with good quickness and decay too. It does not have as much rumble of some other Kz models (Zs6) but instead exhibits better control over what it does have. Mid-bass is well controlled as well and is slightly forward of the sub-bass but again not nearly as much as some other Kz models…”
6. KZ ZSN
Written by thelittleaudiophile
Published Thursday at 9:35 PM
“The bass region on the ZSN is thick and visceral. This is paired with a fantastic sub-bass extension and presence which never leaves you wanting more if you are listening to pop or other bass-heavy genres. There is a greater emphasis on mid-bass than sub-bass which I can appreciate – too much sub-bass would devolve into becoming unnatural and quite nauseating for me…”
A perspicacious reading of all 6 reviewers’ descriptions of the ZSN’s bass does point to a common perception of deep sub-bass. Even if all 6 were wrong, I’m still glad to say I’m in very good company.
Admittedly the subjective impressions from the said 6 ZSN reviews could be assailed as a form of the logical fallacy of proof by numbers.
Those 3 FR graphs cannot be altogether wrong, however.
I rest my case.
mbwilson111
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2016
- Posts
- 9,566
- Likes
- 18,840
This is all getting to be too much for me.
dhruvmeena96
Headphoneus Supremus
Well I supported you there for linear bass but as we go down in sub bass, it rolls off but very slowly....I gladly accept your apology, and offer mine in return. Perhaps I was too hasty and too sensitive as regards a contrary reaction to something I've posted. Or perhaps it's the pesky mood swings again. Yesterday I was too irreverent, especially towards dhruvmeena, and now I was certainly too formal with you both. I'm sorry.
But hey, you've suggested I look at ZSN frequency response graphs so I could realize the error of my bass.
I'm never one to back away from a challenge, and so I did, happy to prove you wrong. Not only do I have the graphs, but I had also gone over the 6 extant reviews of the KZ ZSN in headfi.org in order to see if, indeed, the ZSN does not have deep sub-bass, since its bass “rolls off pretty fast.” The latter quoted phrase is understood by me to mean “rolls off rapidly” or “rolls off quickly” or “rolls off sharply.”
First the graphs:
1. From https://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsn-review:
“The KZ ZSN bass is rich and vivacious. Mid-bass is extremely punchy yet not too bouncy nor boomy and sub-bass is very deep.”
A 6 or 7dB drop from 60 Hz to 20 Hz is not “pretty fast” or rapid or quick or sharp by any means. And the reviewer from thephonograph.net (although I've read one or two comments here to the effect his reviews should be taken with a grain of salt) says, I repeat, the "sub-bass is very deep".
2. From https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/:
“The KZ ZSN has a mild V-shaped signature with a particular emphasis on the sub-bass. Apart from the sub-bass the rest of the presentation is fairly balanced but quite lean with a slightly recessed midrange.”
There is approximately a 2.5 dB drop from 50 Hz to 20 Hz, an even more gentle slope. And I underscored and made bold that part where crabdog states, "...with a particular emphasis on the sub-bass."
3. From https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9uhvs3/kz_zsn_frequency_response_chart/:
“Just measured the KZ ZSN, the new $20-ish IEM. It's the bright pink one in the chart.
Just very quick impressions:
Good build quality. Metal plate with nice acrylic housing. Improved cable connector/cable. The sound signature is definitely in line with my personal preferences, which is a welcomed change. Have only listened to two songs with it and seems like a good value already. Not ultra detailed, but really do enjoy the more linear bass response.
Pink: KZ ZSN
Black: KZ AS10
Green: KZ ZSA
Blue: Tin Audio T2
Light Gray: TRN V80
FR IEM Diffuse Field Compensation: https://imgur.com/a/2BVZ89m”
--post by antdroidx
The poster, antdroid, describes the ZSN as having a “more linear bass response.” That much is evident in both the raw and compensated graphs he posted, that I’m happy to say, accurately coincide with what I described hearing, earlier.
Four distinct and separate graphs from three different individuals, two of them well-known in head-fi, that clearly show the ZSN is capable of reproducing deep sub-bass frequencies.
Next the head-fi.org reviews, with direct quotes therefrom, but better placed in a Spoiler:
1. KZ ZSN: $20 has never gone so far
Written by B9Scrambler
Published Oct 27, 2018
“Bass is lovely with great extension and a satisfying balance between mid- and sub-bass. It is nice and quick with impressive double bass articulation as heard on Havok's ‘D.O.A’…”
2. Knowledge Zenith ZSN Realview.
Written by Johnny Mac
Published Nov 17, 2018
“…The ZSN's lows was tested using Deadmau5's Deus Ex Machina track which has a load of sub bass and bass. The sub bass drops are indeed powerful on the ZSN and is sensibly and audibly felt while bass thumps are impactful and has great air giving a fat sound yet still not congesting towards the midrange frequency. This will satisfy basshead cravings.”
3. KZ ZSN | Rating: 8.3
Written by DallaPo
Published Dec 14, 2018
“The bass is really convincing and finds a good balance between sub-bass and mid-bass. It reacts quickly and precisely without slipping into the midrange. It's really fun, as it not only punches well, but is also very accurate tonally, which benefits demanding bass lines.”
4. Mostly good but not without flaws
Written by SweetEars
Published Dec 15, 2018
“…The bass is around the right amount, not too little nor excessive. it has a mild V shaped signature but more forward vocal signature. The mids are in front of u, There is a good surround effect but the the whole sound signature is more forward than with an emphasis on a V shape mid and sub bass. To some, the whole sound signature may look strange or convulated [sic].
The sub bass is adequate...the mid bass is average.”
5. KZ ZSN - Also known as the ZsT version 2.0
Written by Wiljen
Published Dec 18, 2018
“Sub-bass is good in both depth and quantity with good quickness and decay too. It does not have as much rumble of some other Kz models (Zs6) but instead exhibits better control over what it does have. Mid-bass is well controlled as well and is slightly forward of the sub-bass but again not nearly as much as some other Kz models…”
6. KZ ZSN
Written by thelittleaudiophile
Published Thursday at 9:35 PM
“The bass region on the ZSN is thick and visceral. This is paired with a fantastic sub-bass extension and presence which never leaves you wanting more if you are listening to pop or other bass-heavy genres. There is a greater emphasis on mid-bass than sub-bass which I can appreciate – too much sub-bass would devolve into becoming unnatural and quite nauseating for me…”
A perspicacious reading of all 6 reviewers’ descriptions of the ZSN’s bass does point to a common perception of deep sub-bass. Even if all 6 were wrong, I’m still glad to say I’m in very good company.
Admittedly the subjective impressions from the said 6 ZSN reviews could be assailed as a form of the logical fallacy of proof by numbers.
Those 3 FR graphs cannot be altogether wrong, however.
I rest my case.
mbwilson111
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2016
- Posts
- 9,566
- Likes
- 18,840
just stop
SybilLance
100+ Head-Fier
LOL. I remember reading the Marshall Mode exchanges in my lurker days. And I know the feeling. I also have new insight into the syndrome. So,
Users who are viewing this thread
