[themindfreak]

I've been looking into IEMs, and the KZs look rather promising. my girl is going to China soon, so I'm gonna have the opportunity to get some chi-fi.

i've got a question that research hasn't been able to answer, so I'm hoping one of y'all will be able to help me out.

I'm wondering how the KZs, in particular models like the ZS10, compare to soundmagic IEMs.

I ask this as I currently have e10s, and will be able to get the e50s or e80s easily as well as any model of KZ IEMs. I have the quad DAC LG G6, so I'll be able to make use of the high impedance in the soundmagics (so better sound I guess?), as well as drive the KZs easily. I'd really like to know how the ZS10s stack up against the e50 and e80 seeing as it's single vs multi driver, but any comparison between the brand's would be super helpful.

as far as sound signature preference goes, I like balanced headphones with a lot of detail and separation. I genre hop a lot, so I need an accurate IEM that suits a lot of genres. plus good instrument separation makes it easier to learn drum parts.

TLDR: Soundmagic VS KZ, which is the brand to go with?

Honestly go for KZ. Soundmagic has passed its prime and cant compete anymore in the chifi world... For example I have an E10, but the ZST destroys them IMO.

 

[audionab]

i need a source for my es4 under 100$ i was considering shaling m0
is it good?
does it have any major cons like QC or something?
also please suggest alternatives to shaling

 

[chechu21]

Which sound signature is ES4? It's v shape, maybe basshead?

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

The black KZ ES4 w/o mic are now available for 12.53 USD on Gearbest. The price can be further reduced with GB points to 10.74 USD, with the cheapest registered shipping method. It's even less with unregistered shipping (0.44 USD). Sounds like a good deal to me.

Do you have a link? They are $17 on the website right now.

 

[CoiL]

Wow! That really speaks volumes about the ES4 (w/o nozzle filters) when I consider how much you enjoy the ZS5(v1).

Well, ZS5v1 and ES4 are different signature IEMs. ZS5v1, even with proper amping and source can still sound recessed in midrange (low-mids). I know it now well after getting IT01, before it wasn`t so obvious to me. ZS5v1 is still "on par" with ES4, just different signature and ES4 has way better mids. v1 in contrary has noticeably more details and resolution, especially soundstage (which is HUGE).
ES4 is no slouch in soundstage though, being over average imo.
ES4 is more similar to IT01 than to ZS5v1 actually, just A LOT less resolution and micro-details. But coherency is the key word here - both IT01 & ES4 excel in it.

The black KZ ES4 w/o mic are now available for 12.53 USD on Gearbest. The price can be further reduced with GB points to 10.74 USD, with the cheapest registered shipping method. It's even less with unregistered shipping (0.44 USD). Sounds like a good deal to me.

Great! Would like to have one for modding and comparing to stock.

ES4 is not a technical monstor like ZSR(though it have the graphene driver). It is more like old school, everyone pleasing tone, with technicality like hybridness doing justice and making it overall a winner. It does everything way better than a old single driver, and doesn't loose so much of the coherency which has plagued the hybrid community. It sounds something like AAW nebula 2, just a little rough on treble and a little but noticeable boost on mid bass. These are very negligible comparison to begin with.

Agree. Though, don`t quite agree @ treble roughness and boosted midbass - maybe source matching thing?

Which sound signature is ES4? It's v shape, maybe basshead?

Balanced and smooth with good midrange, 0 harshness/sibilance. No clear typical chi-fi V-shape or basshead in here.

 

[jeromeaparis]

Received my ES4 a few days ago. (from GB, 17$)
Out of the box, with the stock starline medium tips, sound is muddy with soft big bass and no detail.
With the small starline, it's only better
But with the spiral large opening tips (Aliexpress 1.88$) it is realy good ! ES4 is very tip sensible

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...962.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.40696c37ud3i08

After sometimes but before any burn in:
The bass are very good, indeed (but I still slightly preffer those of the ZSR)
Medium are not recessed at all (recessed on the ZST & ZSR) and very very natural sounding: accoustic pianos and voices are very impressing (The ES3 sounded artificial)
Trebles are good and detailed, not sibillant at all (ES3 was sibillant all the time) , you have to listen, the global feeling is that it is less detailed than the ZS6, but on the ZS6 it's exagerated.

I remember when I got a Stax electrostatic earphone, At first listening, I thought it was sounding very bad compared to a dynamic Koss.
I had to learn during 6 month to listen differently, then only I realised the Stax was much better. Commercial produced by marketing tend to be a bit show off, but after a time are fatiguing

The "filter" (one sided board) shows 4 smd components:
C1 (capacitor unmarked value) possibly around 3uF ?
R1 (value 0, = dummy)
R2 (value 0, = dummy)
R3 (value 6R80 =6,8 ohms)
it seems that this "filter" is generic and could be used with other earphones where R1 R2 could be used)
I believe the capacitor is to cut off the bass off the BA driver
and the resistor to lower the level off treble, but normaly there are two resistors, one in parallel, + one in serie, to keep the impedance value
No correction applied to the DD

Resistors do not distort the sound, but capacitors do. The microsize of the smd component
don't give much choice: it's ceramic or tantalum (better)
I personaly use only film capacitors (mkp) for speaker filters, but they are not micro smd.
It would be interesting to test if this cap has a bad influence on the quality of the trebles
# with shunt of the capacitor
# with a replacement film cap as Wima MKP or MKS (placed outside the ES4)

 

[SiggyFraud]

Do you have a link? They are $17 on the website right now.

I'm on my phone atm and can't post a working link, for some reason. Try checking them via Gearbest app.

 

[CoiL]

Received my ES4 a few days ago. (from GB, 17$)
Out of the box, with the stock starline medium tips, sound is muddy with soft big bass and no detail.
With the small starline, it's only better
But with the spiral large opening tips (Aliexpress 1.88$) it is realy good ! ES4 is very tip sensible

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...962.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.40696c37ud3i08

After sometimes but before any burn in:
The bass are very good, indeed (but I still slightly preffer those of the ZSR)
Medium are not recessed at all (recessed on the ZST & ZSR) and very very natural sounding: accoustic pianos and voices are very impressing (The ES3 sounded artificial)
Trebles are good and detailed, not sibillant at all (ES3 was sibillant all the time) , you have to listen, the global feeling is that it is less detailed than the ZS6, but on the ZS6 it's exagerated.

I remember when I got a Stax electrostatic earphone, At first listening, I thought it was sounding very bad compared to a dynamic Koss.
I had to learn during 6 month to listen differently, then only I realised the Stax was much better. Commercial produced by marketing tend to be a bit show off, but after a time are fatiguing

The "filter" (one sided board) shows 4 smd components:
C1 (capacitor unmarked value) possibly around 3uF ?
R1 (value 0, = dummy)
R2 (value 0, = dummy)
R3 (value 6R80 =6,8 ohms)
it seems that this "filter" is generic and could be used with other earphones where R1 R2 could be used)
I believe the capacitor is to cut off the bass off the BA driver
and the resistor to lower the level off treble, but normaly there are two resistors, one in parallel, + one in serie, to keep the impedance value
No correction applied to the DD

Resistors do not distort the sound, but capacitors do. The microsize of the smd component
don't give much choice: it's ceramic or tantalum (better)
I personaly use only film capacitors (mkp) for speaker filters, but they are not micro smd.
It would be interesting to test if this cap has a bad influence on the quality of the trebles
# with shunt of the capacitor
# with a replacement film cap as Wima MKP or MKS (placed outside the ES4)

I totally agree. Wide-bore tips are A MUST with ES4. I found these wide-bore tips to be best for my small ears as they have longer stem, cone shape and "extend" nozzle length, so that relatively large shell fits better and more secure:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48984c4dvQyb19
Spiral dot and Auvio are also great pairing but I felt more comfort with those "cones".
While ES4 shape is similar to IT01, it is still larger enough that I can`t get its "shape" locked behind concha. With IT01 it fits and locks perfect.

I will certainly try replacing capacitor (maybe even using additional by-pass cap if possible?) and maybe there is even room inside shell?

 

[TheVortex]

i need a source for my es4 under 100$ i was considering shaling m0
is it good?
does it have any major cons like QC or something?
also please suggest alternatives to shaling

I own the Shanling M0 and I can recommend it. It such a great DAP for the price. There is a seperate thread on head-fi for it.

I have tried the KZ ED16 and KZ ZS10 on it so far. I will try my KZ ZS5 V1 on it tomorrow.

Below is the head-fi thread for the Shanling M0

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...-and-ess-sabre-es9218p-fw-2-0.874859/page-108

 

[dhruvmeena96]

You got the whole earphone for the tips....man u r a rich guy

I totally agree. Wide-bore tips are A MUST with ES4. I found these wide-bore tips to be best for my small ears as they have longer stem, cone shape and "extend" nozzle length, so that relatively large shell fits better and more secure:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48984c4dvQyb19
Spiral dot and Auvio are also great pairing but I felt more comfort with those "cones".
While ES4 shape is similar to IT01, it is still larger enough that I can`t get its "shape" locked behind concha. With IT01 it fits and locks perfect.

I will certainly try replacing capacitor (maybe even using additional by-pass cap if possible?) and maybe there is even room inside shell?

 

[HungryPanda]

You got the whole earphone for the tips....man u r a rich guy

I did too they were very cheap. Didn't like the tips in the end

 

[DocHoliday]

You got the whole earphone for the tips....man u r a rich guy

Tennmak Whirlwind/Turbo
KZ Whirlwind/Turbo
Auvio

Also, I believe it’s @DocHoliday who gets these nice smooth looking wide bore tips in different colors. I don’t know what they are from (Beats I think) or where he gets them.

Perhaps it's not the most cost-effective way to acquire eartips but I often purchase inexpensive IEMs in order to acquire just the eartips if the eartip is different enough from the typical fare or if they look like an interesting design.

Some of my favorites come from various Philips earphones.

 

[dhruvmeena96]

Except Phillips own iem, they are wonderful for others.

Perhaps it's not the most cost-effective way to acquire eartips but I often purchase inexpensive IEMs in order to acquire just the eartips if the eartip is different enough from the typical fare or if they look like an interesting design.

Some of my favorites come from various Philips earphones.

Auvio is fantastic but then for wide bore I went KZ whirlwind(actually jomo whirlwind)

 

[kaiteck]

I personally use these tips

 

[nxnje]

Hello, first of all thank you for your patience and your great and detailed answer.
What i was meaning is that my zs3 was uncomfortable to my ears, maybe cause of the shape.
That's why i had doubts about zsr as i've read it has a big shape and it's not suitable for small ears.
i was going to buy the es4 but i think u stopped me, watching online it seems it would have been a step-up from my memt x5, but still not a big step up like i wanted.

Now i saw online the zs6 is interesting, i've never thought about buying them because of their treble pierce, but i've even read they have a really good bass, even if the zsr has a bass that is even better.
I'm really confused, i'm really curious about how zsr sounds and zs6 sounds but can't decide.. i have small ears and i don't wanna waste my money buying an iem that will maybe be uncomfortable to wear.

OK...

First of all ZSR is huge in sound, but the stage is like cave(not actual cave, but you can hear some echo on some songs and will always feel the wall of the room)

Bass is a mixed bag, if your ears touch the vent, then it would turn humongous in bass, otherwise normally a little bit more extended than ED16.

Gaming is fun, as the perception of sound and overall imaging is fabalous till the mid side as BA is acting.

ES4 is not a technical monstor like ZSR(though it have the graphene driver). It is more like old school, everyone pleasing tone, with technicality like hybridness doing justice and making it overall a winner. It does everything way better than a old single driver, and doesn't loose so much of the coherency which has plagued the hybrid community. It sounds something like AAW nebula 2, just a little rough on treble and a little but noticeable boost on mid bass. These are very negligible comparison to begin with.

I didn't like ZSA that much, its a cold iem with boosted bass. It can be good for some, and weird for some. It is following the footstep of ZS6, but they uplifted all treble instead of 10kHz so called peak. This makes them good but I think a little mid uplift was needed.

First do the @Slater mod to your ZS3