[B9Scrambler]

I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.

The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better, that cheap earphones sound like $1000 ones, burn-in cycles, and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required. Also included are people who put words into other people's mouth and then go and attack these straw men.

Unless my observations deceive me, many of the deserved head fiers (who would fall into the first group) who have added substance to this thread have recently stayed away. I speculate it is because of too much fluff.

It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi.

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/

 

[Otto Motor]

The purpose of science is not to analyse or describe but to make useful models of the world. A model is useful if it allows us to get use out of it.
Edward De Bono

Coincidentally, I just wrote in another thread: "a bad model is better than no model at all".

Being a scientist myself, I'd say the goal of science [scientia = knowledge] is to figure out things and therefore increase knowledge.

P.S.: No, I am not crazy, that's what I read when I followed B9's link.

 

[Zerohour88]

Unless my observations deceive me, many of the deserved head fiers (who would fall into the first group) who have added substance to this thread have recently stayed away. I speculate it is because of too much fluff.

It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi.

No idea how it was before my time (I've lurked since days of the EDSE release but only recently made an account), but its the usual when new models aren't available on the market yet that the more helpful users doesn't join in (or occasionally chip in when they do visit the thread).

Its the lull when there's really not much new to discuss that draws out the more fluff-related discussion of cables, colors and whatnot. Especially since new KZ models aren't really cheap enough to justify insta-buy testing (not when there are a lot more chi-fi to test now)

not gonna comment on the sound science thing since that's a rabbit hole I'd rather not dive into it

also couldn't give an arse on what "other forum" think, especially if they actually do make sweeping assumptions and look down on a whole forum?

 

[Otto Motor]

also couldn't give an arse on what "other forum" think, especially if they actually do make sweeping assumptions and look down on a whole forum?

Don't blame this on me. My neighbour, who is involved "in the other forum" told me that. I am not active over there. And it is, of course, not tied to this particular thread nor do I think it their snobbism over there is justified.

I am just the messenger. Don't shoot me, please!

 

[Zerohour88]

Don't blame this on me. My neighbour, who is involved "in the other forum" told me that. I am not active over there. And it is, of course, not tied to this particular thread or do I think it their snobbism over there is justified.

I am just the messenger. Don't shoot me, please!

No such blame is being placed, despite the fact that you're the one who brought it up.

 

[Slater]

...the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better...

While sound is first and foremost when it comes to audio gear (by definition), I think design and appearance is important too.

I used to design and manufacture my own line of automotive racing products. And I can say with certainty that I could not ignore the form of my products - how they looked, color options, etc. I had to care because many of my customers cared. I couldn't just cater to the % that only cared about pure science and function, no matter how crappy they looked. The flip side of that is that I had to care about function (first and foremost), because my products were intended to do a very important job, and not just "look good". I had to balance both, and discussions of my products on public forums and websites just like this one involved both as well.

I mean, assuming (hypothetically) that both of the below headphones sounded exactly the same (and cost the same). Which of these would you rather use while walking around shopping in public, or sitting at your desk with all of your coworkers working in close proximity all day?

This:


Or this:



And yeah, I'm sure there will be some people that say that choice #1 looks "much better", but I would imagine that the large majority would say choice #1 is comically ugly and would choose option #2. So you see, form IS important too.

And in the case of an IEM like the iBasso IT01, the red/blue version is preferred by many people over the black version because it is easy to tell the proper channels apart. So in that case, part of the form DOES perform a function.

Unfortunately when talking about any product in a product-specific thread like this one, no matter if it's headphones or cars or houses, you're going to have to put up with both form and function as part of healthy discussion.

 

[DocHoliday]

I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.

The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better, that cheap earphones sound like $1000 ones, burn-in cycles, and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required. Also included are people who put words into other people's mouths and then go and attack these straw men.

Unless my observations deceive me, many of the deserved head fiers (who would fall into the first group) who have added substance to this thread have recently stayed away. I speculate it is because of too much fluff.

It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi.

Be more specific, Otto.

The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks)

Please consider offering them in all black (cable, restraints and 3.5mm jacks) like the TRN cable below because most of my silver-plated KZ cables have severe discoloration.

If this photo is anything to go by then the ZS10 will be shipped with KZ's bronze upgrade cable. If 'tis so, then KZ is hearing our belly-aching about the stock cables that were previously included (the last 5 or 6 models) and they've responded accordingly.

This would be great news because:
1) it proves KZ listens to us.
2) bronze cables don't turn green

It will be interesting to see if this means anything:

...though "self select" seems to suggest get your own upgrade cable.

At any rate, unless we hear otherwise it might be best to stick with KZ's own cables or TRN's since they have the 90° angle that the ZS10 was designed to be coupled with. 90% of aftermarket upgrade cables fit perpendicular to the housing.

Perpendicular cables may rise unnaturally over the ear and flop around if the pin housings don't have this angle.

May or may not be an issue. Some of you folks have upgrade cables with the perpendicular pin housings. Feedback would be appreciated by all.

Why must the free flow of discussion of all-things-KZ be rigid and stripped of anticipatory conjecture. The "joy" of being a hobbyist is not found solely in graphs, specifications and facts. While graphs, specifications and facts give considerable weight and are an integral part of the discussion on any given IEM aesthetics can and do play a part as well.

Like JVC's HA-FXZ200, the I-Into i8 supposedly sound great

Spoiler

JVC HA-FXZ200


I-Into i8

....but they're hideous to me so their presentation matters little because I simply won't wear them whereas another individual may have no issue with their aesthetics.

...... and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required.

I'll repeat my question and statement.

Why must the free flow of discussion of all-things-KZ be rigid and stripped of anticipatory conjecture. The "joy" of being a hobbyist is not found solely in graphs, specifications and facts. Graphs, specifications and facts give considerable weight and are an integral part of the discussion on any given IEM but the discussion will never end with specs, graphs and cold facts. The free flow of discussion holds our interest and it inspires KZ to try new things that might please fans of the KZ brand.

.....and you can count me as a fan of KZ who enjoys taking the journey with them as they learn and grow. Not everything at KZ is a hit but I've gained the ability to have a more educated ear due to KZ's many relatively inexpensive models. Discussing possible characteristics of upcoming releases takes place in almost any consumer product you can think of, be it electronics, automobiles, apparel, what have you.....

My hope is that KZ continues their gentle restraint on the treble as they did with the ZSR. If the ZS10 treble is slightly restrained and the mids are slightly more forward than the ZSR, then how clean the overall sound signature is will rest squarely on the shoulders of KZ's choice for a DD. This is conjecture on my part but IMHO the proper choice would be KZ's 8mm DD to bring in the low end because it's faster and cleaner than KZ's 10mm DD. No need to pour in the heavy cream found in the ZSR; this time only half&half will be necessary for a clean, clear and vivid presentation.

If that's a 10mm dynamic driver in the photo then we'll probably get an improved ED9 sound signature. If it's an 8mm dynamic driver then I'll probably get my wish for an improved HDS1 sound signature. Either sound signature would be fantastic but I'm hoping for the latter.

Seems as though Knowledge Zenith has focused on tuning the ZS10's for over a year so they really should be quite special. We'll see.

Tic toc....tic toc....

The cold hard facts of my ZS5(i) that were designed with NO crossover paint a picture contrary to the end result. I listened to them last night for four hours straight and guess what? They're very, very good in-ear monitors despite their unorthodox design.

Otto Motor said "It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi."

Don't blame this on me. My neighbour, who is involved "in the other forum" told me that.....I am just the messenger. Don't shoot me, please!

In the end, scientist or not, science is more than observation; science involves experimentation. The KZ thread is our Petri Dish and if wondering aloud about what would happen if this or that was put into the Petri Dish is unacceptable.....

I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.

.......then perhaps your wishes to narrow the focus to your preferences can begin here:

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/portable-headphones-earphones-and-in-ear-monitors.103/create-thread


For everyone else, apparently, the ZSA with it's 1+1 hybrid design may actually be a variation of the 2+1 hybrid design that KZ teased a few months back.

ZSA


YZ35


In the meantime I'm looking forward to both of those along with more information about the YZ63 and YZ66 models.

 

[Slater]

...In the meantime I'm looking forward to both of those along with more information about the YZ63...

I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!

The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.

 

[DocHoliday]

I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing a nice large diameter dynamic driver into that big ol' round housing! The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great!

....from your keyboard to KZ's CEO.

 

[fluteloop]

I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!

The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.

same. maybea friction fit memory wire. one possibly two Ba's to tighten mids and uppers up. resistor on them so they're present but not overpowering. so they "blend" into the soundscape.

 

[MariusAB]

Hello, has anyone have experienced this. Received ZSR from Gearbest, but in the left earphone there is some problem, because the wire with 2 pin doesn't fit correctly to the earphone connection. It 'doesn't fit in till the end as it should be. So the earphone usually fell off very easily. The right side everything ok. I dont't remember i but i saw somewhere such problem (in this thread or elsewhere). Is it possible to correct this or this is the manufacturing spoilage? I tried zs6 upgraded cable for this but it also doesn't fit to zsr correctly. With zs6 i received nothing similar. Everything fits nicely.

 

[424358]

I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!

The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.

13mm and MMCX maybe? But everything KZ is 2-pin and TRN cable has that round shape at the connector but is 2-pin so maybe it’s just design and will still be 2-pin.

 

[Dickymint]

This thread is going down the drain. It is not about interpretation while excluding observation. I stated the pros and cons in my review and delivered graphical evidence and comparisons. Enough information to read between the lines and for figuring out whether it is for you or not, independent of the reviewer's opinion. And if you have any doubts on statements made in there, you are welcome to comment. But there should be evidence given for (unsubstantiated) claims such as a number of unnamed earphones at multiple the price sounding not as good. This thread and any earphone evaluation are not faith based.

And please give evidence where I stated I didn't like the ZS10 and where I scold people - which is a personal attack fishing for applause, usually not seen here. I just try to un-distort the big picture skewed by the hype.

Hi @Otto Motor, I was not having a go at you, you are just passing on your opinion and I don't see an issue with that! We are all allowed our opinions, there is too much aggression sometimes and it's not needed, we are all allowed to say what we think, you put forward an opinion, so did I, that should be enough!

 

[Dickymint]

Just to throw in my two penny's worth here, any new IEM "could" have different length nozzles that can be changed! I have the ZS6, it fits, no bother, I also now have the ZS10, the nozzles are just not quite long enough to stay in my ear canal, I am having to use a rather large foam bud to try and force them to stay in, as I said, the option to run either longer or shorter nozzles might be a nice idea. But then I suppose the cost goes up, or the option to have various filters gets added and so it goes on. A bit longer nozzle would be nice, I may be wrong but I don't think it would negatively impact on very many people, or maybe not at all!

 

[Vestat]

I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!

The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.

I am also a huge fan of big drivers. Even if it's not proved or supported by experience, my personal feeling is that a bigger driver is moving the air in a more extensive way so the bass and the general power of the iem is wider.
I am sure that everybody will now say that lots of iems from that X company performs top level even with only BAs or small DD... of course!

But, I know that lower frequencies depend also on the amount of air the diaphragm moves.. so, the bigger the better.
And even if some big drivers may be complete c**p, I still feel that big drivers can deliver a better overall listening experience related to my favorite sound signature and preferences.
So, if I have to make a blind choice and the only info I have is the driver size, I go for the bigger one.