[snip3r77]

ZSE in the house! finally...
Out of the box impressions match what others have said. This is indeed an improvement over the ZS3, but in a different category as the ZS5. Between the 2, ZS5 has much better resolution and separation, soundstage is also a bit wider but much airy-er. Highs are definitely more clear on ZS5, while ZSE seems to be relatively warmer and rumble a bit more. I'll post more later after some run-in time, which I do find helps with DDs.

Comfort-wise ZSE is fantastic. I think I'll use these in bed, while my ZS5 will remain as my daily/commuting IEMs. Microphonics is pretty bad on ZSE so better not use them when moving around...

Very happy with these at this price level, and I think I'll get more ZSE later as gifts for friends! Most people I know prefer wearing earphones down instead of overear...

1

ZSE in the house! finally...
Out of the box impressions match what others have said. This is indeed an improvement over the ZS3, but in a different category as the ZS5. Between the 2, ZS5 has much better resolution and separation, soundstage is also a bit wider but much airy-er. Highs are definitely more clear on ZS5, while ZSE seems to be relatively warmer and rumble a bit more. I'll post more later after some run-in time, which I do find helps with DDs.

Comfort-wise ZSE is fantastic. I think I'll use these in bed, while my ZS5 will remain as my daily/commuting IEMs. Microphonics is pretty bad on ZSE so better not use them when moving around...

Very happy with these at this price level, and I think I'll get more ZSE later as gifts for friends! Most people I know prefer wearing earphones down instead of overear...

I have had RX-1 before and Vido currently. Philips SHE4205 also and don't really listen to Vido anymore. Midrange is an area that is quite better than Vido(and perhaps all my stuff except CKR90) though bass and treble are also better. Cost me $16 more than the Vido but well worth it.

you mean rx1 is good ?

 

[CYoung234]

I just listened to the Hilary Hahn Sibelius VC recording with the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Ese-Pekka Salonen. I have played this concerto five or so times in the past, so I am pretty familiar with it. I am wondering if your source might have something to do with your observations, as I am pretty sure the ZS5s will be harder to drive.

On my setup, I can drive it to pretty close to live concert levels, and the violin sounds relatively good, decent imaging, etc. Certainly listenable. So, just a thought. I A/B'd this with my Fostexes, and while the Fostexes have a bigger, deeper soundstage and are generally more realistic sounding, with more space and air, these ZS5s do pretty well with it.

I spent more time with this recording, listening both to my ZS5's and my **** 6in1 XBAs. At least for this recording, in comparison they are close, but the ZS5's almost sound a bit surreal in comparison. The violin has a little more body and more bite with the Senfers, where it is a bit more ethereal and more like a hologram with the ZS5's, if that makes any sense! I like them both, but the Senfers sound a little more like the real thing to me. I am anxious to get my Urbanfuns and EMI CI880's for comparison!

 

[skeej]

Has anyone here tried the KZ Bluetooth upgrade cable for the ZST/ZS3/ZS5? If so, can you give your opinions on it? Any connectivity or latency issues? And what about battery life?

I haven't tested the latency or the battery life (I don't use the ZS5's for extended periods of time, so can go for days without recharging them), but contrary to what I stated earlier about no noticeable distortion, there actually is terrible distortion at the highest volume levels. It seems to occur mostly when there's a lot of bass volume. The bass becomes very flabby and the mids and highs get distorted too. I'm not sure what it is. It sounds too "warm" to describe it as normal clipping. Maybe it's an impedance issue which impacts the DDs mostly? It only happens when you turn up the volume to near the hearing damage treshold.

At more respectable volumes, especially with not-so-bassy msuic, it sounds great.

 

[Francisk]

Also, considering this is not earbud thread and people might be uninformed, everyone's first earbud should be Vido from NiceHCK. It's the best 4$ anyone can spend and it's 95% of the way towards Auglamour, they do similar things for the mid range and yes, this 4$ earbud does mid range quite a bit better than ZS5.

You paid only $4 so you get only the mids with the Vido where as you get everything else with the ZS5

ZS5 just bested the Dunu Titan 1 and 3!

Yes, my ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips sounds way better than my Titan 1 which I paid a lot more.

 

[vector84]

I haven't tested the latency or the battery life (I don't use the ZS5's for extended periods of time, so can go for days without recharging them), but contrary to what I stated earlier about no noticeable distortion, there actually is terrible distortion at the highest volume levels. It seems to occur mostly when there's a lot of bass volume. The bass becomes very flabby and the mids and highs get distorted too. I'm not sure what it is. It sounds too "warm" to describe it as normal clipping. Maybe it's an impedance issue which impacts the DDs mostly? It only happens when you turn up the volume to near the hearing damage treshold.

At more respectable volumes, especially with not-so-bassy msuic, it sounds great.

Sounds like harmonic distortion from an insufficient current situation?

I thought I saw an impedance curve for the ZS5 a while back but I can't find it, so I'll just kinda leave this here for someone else tear apart ... but I believe it has a less than flat impedance curve, so high distortion at lower frequencies due to very low impedance causing wildly high current draws is probably what's going on there right?


I'll go ahead and admit that I get some pretty heavy harmonic distortion at anything above moderate listening volumes on all my current sources. I favor very low volumes though so it doesn't really bother me most of the time. And all my other nice gear got destroyed a few years back, so I only have stuff from my reject bin left to test against. So while I can't stand to listen to it, I'm reasonably sure it's an under-current situation for me at least on both my on-board sound card and my tablet.

 

[loomisjohnson]

What makes ZS5 differentiate from others(I like so much) is that the ranges are separated. It makes for better coherency in the more congested passages. This is what I've been noticing with one driver dynamics(when the sounds get congested, coherency reduces). I think the mix of dynamic and BA drivers and splitting the ranges creates the coherency and separation. I think this is a purpose of of splitting the ranges with cross-overs(but, this can be done badly as well).

When the sound separated like this, the mids becoming more distinct, and I hear better.

Pardon me, this probably my first time owning a hybrid iems. Long ago I've heard the 1plus2 and that was the only time(noticed how much iems can have potential with hybrids).

there's a certain inherent logic to what you're saying--having multiple drivers should, in theory, provide for more precise or better-separated reproduction of the different frequencies. in practice, however, this isn't necessarily the case, at least at the budget end of the chifi spectrum--there are a number of single dynamics (the adax being a recent example) which have better imaging/instrument separation than a number of comparably-situated hybrids. further, in terms of "coherence," which i think of as seamlessness from top-to-bottom (or absence of different driver colorations in different frequency ranges), i tend to believe that well-made single dynamics are usually better, since they don't have to integrate multiple drivers into a whole. the zs5, to my ears, suffers a tiny bit in this regard--i'm conscious of occasionally hearing different drivers as opposed to a unified whole. which isn't a slam on the zs5, which is excellent in many regards.

 

[SilverEars]

Yeah, it's not a comprehenisive investigation(My sampling isn't large). But, come into this conclusion based comparing with the single dynamic driver iems I've listened to recently. This was based on purposely listening to congestive passages to hear how it performs.

You are right, cross-overs arn't perfect, and can have enough effect on the cross-over points of the spectrum.

Any single dynamic driver iem that does better and well for separation?

 

[peskypesky]

Remember that the ZS5's can be worn "down" by easily, but carefully, removing the memory wire.

 

[vladstef]

You paid only $4 so you get only the mids with the Vido where as you get everything else with the ZS5

Anyone who has heard Vidos knows how well they handle bass and highs as well. These are not earbuds you'd get 10 years ago with a random mp3 player or something, they have nothing in common... except cables

 

[Slater]

I haven't tested the latency or the battery life (I don't use the ZS5's for extended periods of time, so can go for days without recharging them), but contrary to what I stated earlier about no noticeable distortion, there actually is terrible distortion at the highest volume levels. It seems to occur mostly when there's a lot of bass volume. The bass becomes very flabby and the mids and highs get distorted too. I'm not sure what it is. It sounds too "warm" to describe it as normal clipping. Maybe it's an impedance issue which impacts the DDs mostly? It only happens when you turn up the volume to near the hearing damage treshold.

At more respectable volumes, especially with not-so-bassy msuic, it sounds great.

I have only noticed what you are describing when using the bluetooth cable with the ZS5. In fact, the hard wired cable does the same thing.

I do not notice this with the ZST - neither with the stock cable or the bluetooth cable. That's why out of the 3, I only use the ZST with the bluetooth cable.

 

[Slater]

Sounds like harmonic distortion from an insufficient current situation?

I thought I saw an impedance curve for the ZS5 a while back but I can't find it, so I'll just kinda leave this here for someone else tear apart ... but I believe it has a less than flat impedance curve, so high distortion at lower frequencies due to very low impedance causing wildly high current draws is probably what's going on there right?


I'll go ahead and admit that I get some pretty heavy harmonic distortion at anything above moderate listening volumes on all my current sources. I favor very low volumes though so it doesn't really bother me most of the time. And all my other nice gear got destroyed a few years back, so I only have stuff from my reject bin left to test against. So while I can't stand to listen to it, I'm reasonably sure it's an under-current situation for me at least on both my on-board sound card and my tablet.

I completely agree, and also believe this is what's going on with the ZS5. Some sources might have be OK impedance-wise, they may not deliver the appropriate current. This is where an amp helps.

Luckily I don't listen to the ZS5 at ear-damaging levels, but if I do my DAP+amp has no problem driving them where my phone falls flat on it's face.

I suspect the ZSR Pro will behave the same, and possibly be more sensitive (since it was hinted to include additional drivers over the ZS5).

 

[skeej]

Sounds like harmonic distortion from an insufficient current situation?

I thought I saw an impedance curve for the ZS5 a while back but I can't find it, so I'll just kinda leave this here for someone else tear apart ... but I believe it has a less than flat impedance curve, so high distortion at lower frequencies due to very low impedance causing wildly high current draws is probably what's going on there right?


I'll go ahead and admit that I get some pretty heavy harmonic distortion at anything above moderate listening volumes on all my current sources. I favor very low volumes though so it doesn't really bother me most of the time. And all my other nice gear got destroyed a few years back, so I only have stuff from my reject bin left to test against. So while I can't stand to listen to it, I'm reasonably sure it's an under-current situation for me at least on both my on-board sound card and my tablet.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, it's probably harmonic distortion then.

I have only noticed what you are describing when using the bluetooth cable with the ZS5. In fact, the hard wired cable does the same thing.

I do not notice this with the ZST - neither with the stock cable or the bluetooth cable. That's why out of the 3, I only use the ZST with the bluetooth cable.

I don't get the distortion when using a wired connection. I can drive the ZS5 to painful volume levels and still hear no significant distortion. I have mainly used the ZS5 through my Fiio E5. Maybe the higher current and extremely low output impedance helps?

I really hope KZ has an upgraded BT cable in the works. I've become too used to having the convenience of wireless on the go with my K845BT (but it can be equally inconvenient to having to carry around a big pair of headphones like those). It's kinda hard to go back to a wired connection.

On the one hand, this distortion issue protects me against inflicting hearing damage, but on the other hand, sometimes you just need to play things LOUD . I might try running a small BT receiver hooked up to the Fiio hooked up to the ZS5 to have some semi-wireless action without sacrificing SQ.

 

[vector84]

I don't get the distortion when using a wired connection. I can drive the ZS5 to painful volume levels and still hear no significant distortion. I have mainly used the ZS5 through my Fiio E5. Maybe the higher current and extremely low output impedance helps?

So my understanding of amps is pretty limited but I'll take a stab at this...

First the ZS5 isn't actually rated to get that loud, is it? Specs claim 10 mW max power, 106 dBSPL. That should mean it's not rated past 116.6 dB right?
(so average volume levels beyond ~87 dB [+30dB peaks] could contain distortion from the ZS5 itself right?)

Then at rated volume levels most on-chip amps like the ones included with KZ's BT module would be fine, but ask for 97 dB average listening volume (and 127 dB peaks?) and you'd be hitting 100 mW peak power drain... more than many sources can supply into 16 Ohms, let alone 9–10 or some such.


This makes me wonder... the Fiio E5 is only rated at 100mW@32Ohms (so < 50@16 ?).

Could this potentially imply that the KZ BT module might need a capacitor replacement rather than a new amp chip to drive the ZS5 to higher volumes without distortion? Or maybe the original version had big enough capacitors and it sucked the batteries dry? I'm now way outside my wheelhouse so I should probably just stop rambling.

 

[SilverEars]

IME, ZS5 is pretty sensitive that it's too much to reach clipping level if that is even possible. It doesn't take much to drive it. It's on an avg sensitive level based on the volume I use it at. Now, the E3000, that's on another level, it takes a bit more juice to drive it to loud enough volume.

Something is peculiar about what you are running into.

 

[vector84]

IME, ZS5 is pretty sensitive that it's too much to reach clipping level if that is even possible. It doesn't take much to drive it. It's on an avg sensitive level based on the volume I use it at. Now, the E3000, that's on another level, it takes a bit more juice to drive it to loud enough volume.

Something is peculiar about what you are running into.

My understanding is that in general clipping tends to occur when you try to pull a higher voltage than your amp can provide while harmonic distortion tends to result when you try to draw more current than your amp can supply?