[SeaBreezer]

I've "burned in" my S4s now for at least 70 hours. My conclusion regarding the SQ (properly seated using the large tips) of the S4s is the following:

-Sibilance was piercing out of the box and is piercing now.

-The bass is very "temperamental" and is subject to being completely lost (due to a loss in seal), distorted at higher volume levels, or being just okay when there is a good seal between the ear and tip, and when the source song provides for it.

-The seal is very delicate because even the large tips don't seem to be large enough.

-The mids still dominate.

I was initially influenced by the hype surrounding these in-earphones so I thought them to be better than they have actually proven to be after listening to a wide range of music on them over time.

I noticed people mentioning Bose IE headphones which, in my opinion, are certainly inferior to the S4s.

The S4s are good earphones. Are they worth $70 plus tax? My opinion now is probably not.

 

[mark2410]

right, seeing as ive now had a go at listening to a set of these first off, fcuk me thats a lot of bass! but i get why klipsch would do that, its what the masses want.

Tips, as usall olives work their magical powers on a klipsch IEM. instant fit pickness is cured.

Impedance, driving these ont of a 1G shuffle they really quite live have 75 ohms added to the mix (search ebay for etymotic p to s converter) crisps them up quite nicely.

thing is the custom 2 benefits vastly from doing the same, now on them it does also significantly reduce the bass but it does propel them to above the S4 in terms of clarity and detail.

the S4 are much better than i expected and if you like a lot of bass these really are not bad for their us$80 price.

edit: a quick test with the custom 3 and yeah the 3 bests them with no trouble all over

 

[DavidMorton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBreezer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've "burned in" my S4s now for at least 70 hours.

Don't laugh at me for saying this... 70 hours is about the minimum for these phones. I didn't see improvement until about 100 hours. Of course, it's possible you'll still feel the same after another 30 hours or so, but give it a shot...

Oh and make sure you're burning them in at a level higher than you typically listen to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBreezer /img/forum/go_quote.gif -Sibilance was piercing out of the box and is piercing now.

Yep, I still hear sibilance on sibilant tracks. Some of my quieter indie-rock has some sibilance in it... Feist, Kings of Convenience and some Iron and Wine come to mind immediately. Most everything else sounds incredibly smooth with no sibilance, so I can only chalk it up to the source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBreezer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I noticed people mentioning Bose IE headphones which, in my opinion, are certainly inferior to the S4s.

Bose did have a better case at one point. They've remedied that now.

 

[mark2410]

well since i have the XM5 here the custom 2 with 75 ohms and bass boost on i have no hesitation in saying bests the S4, so its an unlikely combo but hey there you go anyway.

and since they were near i tried the custom 1 with the same 75 ohms and bass boost, they really are little gems, fabulous bargain for the £17.99 i got them for (crazy amazon sale last year) id say these are in this set up easily equals of the S4 if you dont want that big shed load of bass.

frankly all that bass for me is a minus point on the S4 anyway, fun for a bit but too much all the time

 

[Pott]

What's sibilance?

I'm loving mine. I was expecting a bigger upgrade coming from the Senns CX500s. But the S4s feel more natural to me. The bass is less artificial, and there's just the right amount for me. It doesn't overwhelm like sometimes on the 500s.

Only thing is that the M tips are too big and the dual flange too deep. So I have no tips that fit me right

I also wish they came with the plastic housing to better wear them over-ear.

 

[Judge Buff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pott /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's sibilance? I'm loving mine. I was expecting a bigger upgrade coming from the Senns CX500s. But the S4s feel more natural to me. The bass is less artificial, and there's just the right amount for me. It doesn't overwhelm like sometimes on the 500s. Only thing is that the M tips are too big and the dual flange too deep. So I have no tips that fit me right I also wish they came with the plastic housing to better wear them over-ear.

The crash of a cymbal is sibilant. Too much sibilance creates a harsh sound. Many folks report their new S4 is too sibilant. With the S4s, I found that you can temper the sibilance with white noise at about 25% higher than normal listening level for a day or so. Worked on mine, but I like the "brightness" and the contrasting deep bass. Some people think they have exalted hearing. Some people like to listen to traffic noise, too. Your mileage may vary.

If the bi-flange fits, but is too deep, try removing the small flange in front with an X-Acto knife.

 

[yipcanjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBreezer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've "burned in" my S4s now for at least 70 hours. My conclusion regarding the SQ (properly seated using the large tips) of the S4s is the following: -Sibilance was piercing out of the box and is piercing now. -The bass is very "temperamental" and is subject to being completely lost (due to a loss in seal), distorted at higher volume levels, or being just okay when there is a good seal between the ear and tip, and when the source song provides for it. -The seal is very delicate because even the large tips don't seem to be large enough. -The mids still dominate. I was initially influenced by the hype surrounding these in-earphones so I thought them to be better than they have actually proven to be after listening to a wide range of music on them over time. I noticed people mentioning Bose IE headphones which, in my opinion, are certainly inferior to the S4s. The S4s are good earphones. Are they worth $70 plus tax? My opinion now is probably not.

Certainly "your mileage may vary" applies here. I agree that the mids dominate -- at least with what I'm hearing right now. I am *not*, however, hearing an abundance of either bass or sibilance. I'm also not finding the canal seal to be particularly troublesome, but everyone has different ears.

Hope you find something that works for you.... and if/when you do, let us know what it is!

 

[SeaBreezer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yipcanjo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Certainly "your mileage may vary" applies here. I agree that the mids dominate -- at least with what I'm hearing right now. I am *not*, however, hearing an abundance of either bass or sibilance. I'm also not finding the canal seal to be particularly troublesome, but everyone has different ears. Hope you find something that works for you.... and if/when you do, let us know what it is!

Thanks for the good wishes. For the record, I've always been a great fan of Klipsch's warm, yet dynamic sound, especially on the professional-grade speakers I have in the home (about 9 years old, still with sublime SQ).

However, I think the primary issues with this particular product [Image S4] is that achieving a good seal (which is essential to really enjoying what these little buds can do) wasn't always easy and the sibilance was fatiguing necessitating me to constantly adjust the EQ. With regard to the bass, my personal preference is the more, the better...so long as it doesn't overpower or muffle the high frequencies, and doesn't distort at high volumes. I was able to get only some nice punchy and depthful bass out of these when I had them seated just right, but that bass became distorted at volume levels that I don't think were unreasonably high (such as those that would blow one's ears out). Part of me wants to purchase another pair and give them another try, but if anyone has any suggestions for IEMs that really deliver heavily on bass (without being muddy), yet still providing dynamic sound in the upper range, I'd much appreciate it.

I try to be as honest and as objective as I can in my appraisal to be as helpful to others here as they are to me. We all learn from each other.

So, cheers to all and let me know if you have an alternative suggestion to the S4s. I don't mind spending a bit more.

 

[pfloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBreezer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the good wishes. For the record, I've always been a great fan of Klipsch's warm, yet dynamic sound, especially on the professional-grade speakers I have in the home (about 9 years old, still with sublime SQ). However, I think the primary issues with this particular product [Image S4] is that achieving a good seal (which is essential to really enjoying what these little buds can do) wasn't always easy and the sibilance was fatiguing necessitating me to constantly adjust the EQ. With regard to the bass, my personal preference is the more, the better...so long as it doesn't overpower or muffle the high frequencies, and doesn't distort at high volumes. I was able to get only some nice punchy and depthful bass out of these when I had them seated just right, but that bass became distorted at volume levels that I don't think were unreasonably high (such as those that would blow one's ears out). Part of me wants to purchase another pair and give them another try, but if anyone has any suggestions for IEMs that really deliver heavily on bass (without being muddy), yet still providing dynamic sound in the upper range, I'd much appreciate it. I try to be as honest and as objective as I can in my appraisal to be as helpful to others here as they are to me. We all learn from each other. So, cheers to all and let me know if you have an alternative suggestion to the S4s. I don't mind spending a bit more.

Heh SeaBreezer, I feel your pain. I too succumbed to the hype and purchased the s4s and have been sorely disappointed. Your description of their performance matches mine exactly, except I used large shure olives which always provided a good seal, and I still experienced less than stellar bass. What is interesting is that before making this purchase I received a free pair of jbuds j3s and are pleasantly surprised by their performance, especially the bass. There are some songs that have subtle but deep bass that the s4s totally miss that the j3s produce very richly without bleeding into the rest of the spectrum. Stand up acoustic bass is awesome with every note discreet and varying in pitch. Techno chill is impressive as well, rattling my molars. I'm really surprised that they have not received more love here at head-fi, especially in light of all the love the s4s are receiving. The s4's have a very convex frequency response curve where the j3's have a more concave curve, mids a bit recessed would be the only criticism. But they have an excellent sounstage with space around the instruments providing a very airy quality, and again the bass reaches incredibly deep. Highs were a little sharp at first but settled down after burn-in. I'm using some large skullcandy "nipple" eartips with them that fit perfectly and are very comfortable. Build quality is also excellent, with the wire being some of the best I've seen. The s4s are very fatiguing and very mid centric, scrunching the curve with emphasis on mid bass and lower treble, and lots of simbilance, all after 100 hours of burn-in. I too have Klipsch Reference for home theater that I enjoy immensely and was expecting much more from the s4s. I suggest you try the j3s. Don't be fooled by their low cost (29.95 @ amazon). My IEM inventory also includes shure se210, monster turbines, UE 200vi, bose IE (I know, they were free) and I have listened to se530, Klipsch X5 and X10 and I enjoy the j3s as much if not more than most of them. Mayby another 50 hrs of burn-in on the s4s will help, but I doubt it. Will likely be returning them to BB.

 

[Pott]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Buff /img/forum/go_quote.gif The crash of a cymbal is sibilant. Too much sibilance creates a harsh sound. Many folks report their new S4 is too sibilant. With the S4s, I found that you can temper the sibilance with white noise at about 25% higher than normal listening level for a day or so. Worked on mine, but I like the "brightness" and the contrasting deep bass. Some people think they have exalted hearing. Some people like to listen to traffic noise, too. Your mileage may vary. If the bi-flange fits, but is too deep, try removing the small flange in front with an X-Acto knife.

It's what I did... went well on the first one but I cut too low onto the first flange on the second tip so it's not sealed anymore. Stupid me... Years of working on guitars and electronics without ever breaking anything, and then one cut on something simple and I miss it up... not happy...

 

[SeaBreezer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfloyd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh SeaBreezer, I feel your pain. I too succumbed to the hype and purchased the s4s and have been sorely disappointed. Your description of their performance matches mine exactly, except I used large shure olives which always provided a good seal, and I still experienced less than stellar bass. What is interesting is that before making this purchase I received a free pair of jbuds j3s and are pleasantly surprised by their performance, especially the bass. There are some songs that have subtle but deep bass that the s4s totally miss that the j3s produce very richly without bleeding into the rest of the spectrum. Stand up acoustic bass is awesome with every note discreet and varying in pitch. Techno chill is impressive as well, rattling my molars. I'm really surprised that they have not received more love here at head-fi, especially in light of all the love the s4s are receiving. The s4's have a very convex frequency response curve where the j3's have a more concave curve, mids a bit recessed would be the only criticism. But they have an excellent sounstage with space around the instruments providing a very airy quality, and again the bass reaches incredibly deep. Highs were a little sharp at first but settled down after burn-in. I'm using some large skullcandy "nipple" eartips with them that fit perfectly and are very comfortable. Build quality is also excellent, with the wire being some of the best I've seen. The s4s are very fatiguing and very mid centric, scrunching the curve with emphasis on mid bass and lower treble, and lots of simbilance, all after 100 hours of burn-in. I too have Klipsch Reference for home theater that I enjoy immensely and was expecting much more from the s4s. I suggest you try the j3s. Don't be fooled by their low cost (29.95 @ amazon). My IEM inventory also includes shure se210, monster turbines, UE 200vi, bose IE (I know, they were free) and I have listened to se530, Klipsch X5 and X10 and I enjoy the j3s as much if not more than most of them. Mayby another 50 hrs of burn-in on the s4s will help, but I doubt it. Will likely be returning them to BB.

Thanks for sharing all of the helpful info. The odd experience with the S4s is best described, I think, by enormous expectations coupled with buds that seemed to show promise at first, but ultimately were not able to live up to the reviews given.

So you really prefer your j3s to all the others you've mentioned? Good bass response with dynamic sound? If so, I'll definitely look into them! Thanks again and cheers!

 

[jsplice]

I don't feel that the sibilance from these phones is due to only the source. There are tracks that exhibit major sibilance when heard through the S4 that does not exist on other headphones of mine. I believe that Klipsch has designed the S4 with a peak of a boost in the frequency range where sibilance can sometimes occur. Therefore certain recordings that may also have this band in the frequency range boosted will be doubly boosted when listening through the S4. At the end of the day, it really is a combination of both the recording and the S4's design that causes the sibilance.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsplice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't feel that the sibilance from these phones is due to only the source. There are tracks that exhibit major sibilance when heard through the S4 that does not exist on other headphones of mine. I believe that Klipsch has designed the S4 with a peak of a boost in the frequency range where sibilance can sometimes occur. Therefore certain recordings that may also have this band in the frequency range boosted will be doubly boosted when listening through the S4. At the end of the day, it really is a combination of both the recording and the S4's design that causes the sibilance.

I share exactly the same opinion

 

[Judge Buff]

^^ I must not have any of that music, or the particular freqs are dulled/dead in my auditory awareness (Naval aviation support background). Sibilance is just not an issue with mine since the second week or so of owning them.

I do know that there are a number of us that really enjoy our S4s, but we have broken them in. You gotta cook them, and it must be done at a louder than normal volume, IME. Heck, tstarn06 was a huge critic of these at first, but he stuck with his, cooked them hotter than normal and discovered that they had changed.

My advice is to try this whether or not you believe in burn-in. If you are planning on sending them back, you have nothing to lose, right? Just cook them! Cook them at 25% higher than you normally listen for a few days straight. Don't listen to them at all while you do this. Give them rest periods if you want. Use your music library, noise generator, recordings of your spouse, kids (coach, etc.) screaming, or whatever you want. Just do it!

Then listen to them for an extended period... at least a couple of hours or so. Report back if you desire.

What do you have to lose, but some time not listening to phones that you currently dislike. If it doesn't work, then send them back!

 

[SeaBreezer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Buff /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^^ I must not have any of that music, or the particular freqs are dulled/dead in my auditory awareness (Naval aviation support background). Sibilance is just not an issue with mine since the second week or so of owning them. I do know that there are a number of us that really enjoy our S4s, but we have broken them in. You gotta cook them, and it must be done at a louder than normal volume, IME. Heck, tstarn06 was a huge critic of these at first, but he stuck with his, cooked them hotter than normal and discovered that they had changed. My advice is to try this whether or not you believe in burn-in. If you are planning on sending them back, you have nothing to lose, right? Just cook them! Cook them at 25% higher than you normally listen for a few days straight. Don't listen to them at all while you do this. Give them rest periods if you want. Use your music library, noise generator, recordings of your spouse, kids (coach, etc.) screaming, or whatever you want. Just do it! Then listen to them for an extended period... at least a couple of hours or so. Report back if you desire. What do you have to lose, but some time not listening to phones that you currently dislike. If it doesn't work, then send them back!

Your advice is very much sensible. In fact, that's what's I did, but just couldn't notice any results. Perhaps I just got a bad pair? It's tough to know for sure, but I tend strongly to agree with jsplice's assessment.

After a couple of weeks with no noticeable change, I really tried to "cook them" leaving them at much higher listening volumes for 24 hours at a time. No joy.

I just really want to find "that one pair" that I can finally settle in with. My attention is turning to the Shure SE530s. I realize they'll cost anywhere from $250-$500 to obtain, but perhaps they'll provide the powerful bass and balanced dynamic sound I'm looking for. Good earphones enable me to relax and shut the rest of the world out (without disturbing others) by enjoying the SQ of music at its best. That's pretty valuable to me. I also want to add one more factor into this assessment. Even the sound produced by original recordings of many songs weren't so great to begin with, so that too can strongly affect SQ.

Any advice from my expert friends here who have tried the SE530s and know how they would compare to the S4s?