[JimL11]

Yeah the Carbon and BHSE are close in overall performance, though with distinct character. The main thing that turns me off about the BHSE is the 50ish minute warm up time. The KGSSHV Carbon is just $1k cheaper and simpler to use and performs in the same league, better in some ways.

Just to be clear, the tubes are only indirectly responsible for the warm up time, it's actually the solid state that directly causes the warm-up issue. The CCS heatsinks need time to come up to operating temperature, and the output voltage will drift during this process. You can measure this drift if you disable the servo in the Carbon. The tubes themselves are ready to go in less than a minute. However, because you do need to turn it off when not in use to preserve the tube lifetime, it is an issue, although due to the differential design of the amp, the balance (voltage between + and- outputs in the same channel) generally is stable within a few volts from turn-on.


The issue of changes in operating conditions with temperature occurs with both solid state and tube electronics, which is why in labs that do precision measurements, instruments are left on 24/7/365. This was true back in the tubed days, and it is true now. It is the reason why DACs work best when they are left on all the time. A solid state amp will also perform at its best when left on all the time - whether you want to pay the cost of electricity for doing so is a separate issue.

 

[astrostar59]

Good advice `JimL11, I have found this to be true (by my ears) not using instruments. But don't tell you know who at the you know which forum.....

Caps and other parts seem to need to stabilise. Plus switching on and off a lot is thermal shock and often when things fail.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I would look at an R-2R DAC with a great gain stage (with tubes). It brings things to the system that an all SS can't do IMO. Plus you can tweak the system synergy. I recommend the Lampizator Atlantic, or go all out for the Aries Cerat Kassandra. The DAC is a big part of the final sound, especially at this level. I have said it before but a top HP and amp is equal to 50K+ speakers system. Wouldn't put a lesser DAC on the front of it. YMMV, but that is my findings.....

Wasn't expecting such a reasonable price for the Atlantic. The thing is I have no real experience with NOS R2R DACs. Not everyone prefers their sound. Luckily the one I am getting supports both OS and NOS and is built like a tank for the price. Two 0.005% matched resistor ladders per channel, dual mono isolated PSU, and much more. Seems like 95% of the Terminator. Getting it Tuesday, can't wait.

 

[Whitigir]

Just to be clear, the tubes are only indirectly responsible for the warm up time, it's actually the solid state that directly causes the warm-up issue. The CCS heatsinks need time to come up to operating temperature, and the output voltage will drift during this process. You can measure this drift if you disable the servo in the Carbon. The tubes themselves are ready to go in less than a minute. However, because you do need to turn it off when not in use to preserve the tube lifetime, it is an issue, although due to the differential design of the amp, the balance (voltage between + and- outputs in the same channel) generally is stable within a few volts from turn-on.


The issue of changes in operating conditions with temperature occurs with both solid state and tube electronics, which is why in labs that do precision measurements, instruments are left on 24/7/365. This was true back in the tubed days, and it is true now. It is the reason why DACs work best when they are left on all the time. A solid state amp will also perform at its best when left on all the time - whether you want to pay the cost of electricity for doing so is a separate issue.

I totally agree, and I have seen mindless claim that solidstate is ready to go faster than Tubes, which is ridiculous. I can hear my R2R7 performing better after 2 hours, and even better after 24 hours or so....I grew tired of turning it off....it is now on all the time LoL, unless I need to go away for weeks! Not to mention that I realized that the offset and balanced dialing on a Carbon is a PITA where as the servo on Grounded Grid stabilize in 5-10 minutes.

I doubted my ears previously as people states SS stabilize faster, but then I witness what a Carbon behave vs it Tube variant the GG, I have no more doubt. I also don’t want to keep spreading this alone. Thanks @JimL11 for posting this, and yes @astrostar59 , you also have good ears

 

[koven]

Wasn't expecting such a reasonable price for the Atlantic. The thing is I have no real experience with NOS R2R DACs. Not everyone prefers their sound. Luckily the one I am getting supports both OS and NOS and is built like a tank for the price. Two 0.005% matched resistor ladders per channel, dual mono isolated PSU, and much more. Seems like 95% of the Terminator. Getting it Tuesday, can't wait.

There is a demo unit on AG for $4K. I've always wondered what life after Yggy is like.. perhaps I will go find out some day.

 

[SeaWo|f]

@buzzlulu something I did forget about with regards to spritzers amps, he typically does his own board work. So his circuit could be a little different than those published, different ccs and things.

 

[buzzlulu]

The issue of changes in operating conditions with temperature occurs with both solid state and tube electronics, which is why in labs that do precision measurements, instruments are left on 24/7/365. This was true back in the tubed days, and it is true now. It is the reason why DACs work best when they are left on all the time. A solid state amp will also perform at its best when left on all the time - whether you want to pay the cost of electricity for doing so is a separate issue.

Exactly. My main listening is 2 channel - Naim. Break-in from new is usually 4-6 weeks for the reasons AstroStar mentioned above - "Caps need to break in - other parts need to stabilize"
After that gear stays powered on 24/7. If you power down (like they do in the UK when there are thunder storms) the gear will need another 24-48 hours to come back on song.

I asked Birgir if the Carbon needed to be powered on 24/7 and he said no

Seawolf
Yes thank you - I am aware that Birgir's Carbon is is own variant. It does not have the Golden Reference supplies - however I believe the Carbon CC has his variant of said supplies. So perhaps that is one of the reasons why it rates slightly better than a stock Carbon.
Agreed though that the jump from Carbon to CC, as even per him, will not be that large. Then again the CC might be the top of the pecking order for Solid State

Tubes - I don't want to wait 50 minutes for warm up - and I don't want to always remember to turn it off when I am finished. Headphone listening is sporadic for me as the big 2 channel rig is always powered on and ready to go.

As for DAC's and their importance - don't get me started. As I have posted multiple times in the past - in my 2 channel Naim/Linn world Source First - ALWAYS!
AstroStar - you posted you had a Naim CD555 so you know what I am talking about. That baby is the big kahouna - perhaps the greatest CD player of all time (along with the CDS3 and Linn's CD12)
I moved mine on when I entered the world of streaming. Naim was still getting its sea legs in those early days so their first foray into the streaming world was not the best. No problem - Linn was there at the get go with the Klimax DS. Actually Linn was the first manufacturer to announce they were stopping all production of CD players and moving exclusively into streaming back in 2009 and they never looked back. The Klimax DS is up to its 4th iteration - and still remains, imho, the standard by which others need to be judged by.

Stax has been interesting for me as I can now see how the amplifier plays as important a part as the source - something which was foreign to my mind.

 

[SeaWo|f]

The CC has his version of the GRHV or at least that was my interpretation from what he said.

Edit:: if he is using dact steppers I would wait for an rk50 one. I have heard of aging issues with the dacts. Idk what he is using but it's worth asking.

 

[Whitigir]

Rk50 alone is 1K in price.. people cant cry enough on carbon pricing already

 

[buzzlulu]

Rk50 alone is 1K in price.. people cant cry enough on carbon pricing already

Who is crying?

 

[rgs9200m]

So does leaving a solid state piece powered-up continuously cause any wear and tear on it? I always wondered about that. Maybe the caps?
(I suppose that it may not, since the Yggy is meant to be on 24/7. I once had an Edge power amp with no on/off switch.)

 

[Rhamnetin]

The amp will of course not last you as long compared to turning it off while not in use. I don't leave my system on 24/7, I just turn it on a bit before I start listening to warm it up so to speak.

 

[buzzlulu]

So does leaving a solid state piece powered-up continuously cause any wear and tear on it? I always wondered about that. Maybe the caps?
(I suppose that it may not, since the Yggy is meant to be on 24/7. I once had an Edge power amp with no on/off switch.)

Once again speaking with my 2 channel hat on - Naim offer a recap service where gear is sent back to the factory. Recommended schedule is 10 years for all gear with the exception of the totl 500 series which is 15 years.
Equipment is fully refurbished and returns in as new condition with any updates also performed.
They have always been known for their customer service. Many classic pieces are still in use even 30 years later. That is why the 2nd market for Naim has always remind so strong.

By the way the 24/7 power on is manufacturer recommended for optimal performance.

 

[justin w.]

Finally a bit off topic: I think all this about tubes being hard to deal with and the BHSE needing adjustments is EXTREMELY overstated. Should you check it from time to time yes, if you roll properly matched tubes will you need to adjust? No. Does it sound better after warm up? Yes. Is that improvement vastly eclipsed by say, the change you will hear from new ICs? Yes.

As JimL already commented on regarding the warm up being the same on both tube and solid state on these particular designs, the same is true of the adjustments. Both the solid state and tube hybrid designs have the same adjustment points, including the ones made by STAX, they are just hidden away inside the box. The BHSE is the only one I can think of where the adjustments are accessible without removing a single screw or cover. It's just easy to do so when the circuit board is near the top of the enclosure due to the tube sockets.

 

[phaeton70]

ok, I have gone through all the pages of this thread, and... yes, you got me conviced I will buy a Carbon

this was my original req in the loooooooong stax thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1049#post-14389155
now I think the Carbon is my best bet.... I will use it with an MSB Analog (or maybe an Auralic Vega, will see), should be a nice matching

I have found an used one inside my budget, Mjolnir build, late 2017, mini all black chassis,

I understand there are various build of this amplifier from Sprizter, with varying mA and PSU and other things, is that correct? how can i check exactly which version I will have? (and, yes, of course as soon as I have the amplifier in my puffy hands I will write to Spritzer.... this is just for the sake of personal knowledge in advance )

PS I'm now using a fully reconditioned T1W with Clear Top tubes, and I must say it's a really good experience. really a nice sound, the most surprising thing is the punchy, fast, textured bass... was not expecting this kind of bass.... tbh, I listen to low/mid level, don't like too high volume, but what I'm hearing really satisfy me a lot