[theconquerer]

I would say get a demo to know for sure. Have you got access to both 009 and Utopia? I thought you already had an opinion on the 2 together? I would say get more time with both before you push the money trigger. It is a big spend and only hearing these two will resolve it IMO. Peoples preferences and amp / DAC choices come into it a lot, even how loud they play them as well.

I haven't heard the Utopia yet, but I would offer my opinion on the bass quality of the 009s. I have big horn speaker in my HT system with 12 inch bass units and augmented with a Velodyne sub. So my HT system goes down to below 30Hz and is fast and dynamic, partly as my room is not so big and I am sitting really close. 

The bass on the 009 is faster and more textured than my speakers, possibly not as forceful but you get room pressurisation in a speaker system, something very difficult to replicate with headphones. Bass quality is spot on with the 009s IMO, if it was increased in level it would, I am convinced smear the mid range and treble and muddy the soundstage and reduce the 3D image. Remember the ears get fatigue with too much bass and will react by 'closing the shutter' so to speak, i.e. reducing the reception coming into the ear.

I listen to lots of genres and bass demanding music such as trance and house music sound great to me on the 009s. Lots of drive and pace, really damb good. I really don't feel any need to up the bass at all. I have done that in the past with digi EQ by around +2-3 db before I finished my DAC tube rolling. But now I feel no need of it. Tyll in his review upped the bass EQ on his Utopia by 5dB I believe.

My other thoughts / theory on the bass output is, unlike a 'normal' house speaker system with 2 or 3 way designs, the 009 and most other HPs are single driver. If that driver has to produce as ruler flat and fast response as possible to provide the illusion of a live music event, it will have a hard time indeed getting loaded up with too much bass energy.

Also 'maybe' folk coming across from V shaped HP's (massive generalisation and not meant as an insult) they may well find the Stax model too different?

I guess no HP will be perfect, relate the live event with the huge dynamic power and 3D image that can be experienced. But the 009 IMO gets me close enough, close enough to forget the gear and track swopping and sit back and chill with it. Sometimes late at night, and putting the 009s on they blow me away to another place, they are that good IMO.

I do also believe they are ruthless at revealing upstream gear, a microscope to what is going on, so much so it demands more investment elsewhere or the owner will never be happy and have to move on....

Hope this helps

I have heard utopias with Wa8 and metrum musette recently.I don't know how good the wa8 would push them to their potential tho. They are sitting on my friend's house right now.

 

[Whitigir]

Well, how the bass behave in a Stax system will have everything to do with the energizers, amplifier ? Because it needs to be bathed in the high-voltage environment to excite the electrons on the membranes, isn't it that the better excitements these electrons are, the better it respond ?

Anyways, getting back on working on the carbon

 

[Whitigir]

Slamming away for the moment

 

[behwatch]

Nice! So Carbon and 009 is good together

Carbon is actually built for 009 but other headphones can be used too.

 

[JimL11]

Carbon is actually built for 009 but other headphones can be used too.

Well, yes and no.  Here is what BIrgir (spritzer) says about the Carbon on the Mjolnir website:
 
"The original design concept for this amp was born to tame the rough top end of the SR-009 but it grew from there to become the best solid state amplifier we have designed."  My understanding is that Kevin Gilmore's design philosophy is to design the best, most linear amplifier he can, which can be used to drive any headphone, rather than designing for a specific headphone.

 

[Pale Rider]

And thus "started out to tame the 009, but then evolved into best SS amp." I am not at all sure why people have such a hard time understanding this statement.

 

[astrostar59]

 
And thus "started out to tame the 009, but then evolved into best SS amp." I am not at all sure why people have such a hard time understanding this statement.

I think it might be some disagree with it. I have an issue with 'rough top end' I would not say that, rather say 'very transparent and fast response of the 009 requires careful system matching'.
 
The 007 is more forgiving, but darker and not as fast or transparent. Both HPs have great potential / strengths but it needs work IMO to get the best out of them. I like to align the 007s or 009s with a 100K speaker system, I really think they are that good. Hardly surprising then in my book, that they will not shine on all front ends or amps.

 

[Pale Rider]

 
I think it might be some disagree with it. I have an issue with 'rough top end' I would not say that, rather say 'very transparent and fast response of the 009 requires careful system matching'.
 
The 007 is more forgiving, but darker and not as fast or transparent. Both HPs have great potential / strengths but it needs work IMO to get the best out of them. I like to align the 007s or 009s with a 100K speaker system, I really think they are that good. Hardly surprising then in my book, that they will not shine on all front ends or amps.

Astrostar59, you may have missed my point. Some people seem to read into Birgir's words a contradiction. I do not. To me, the Carbon simply evolved from its original mission, as Birgir states. To me, it doesn't matter whether somebody thinks the 009 top end is rough [I don't happen to think so, but I have only listened to it through the Carbon CC, a Carbon, and a Sanyo outboard KGSShv]. Extremely revealing and resolving, but not to me rough. Others can't stand it. To each their own. I have the 009, two 007 Mk1, and a 007 Mk2. All have their strengths and weaknesses, all tend to express the amp behind them in differing ways. But that wasn't the point of my post.
 
I was only commenting on the perceived inconsistency in Birgir's comment.

 

[icebear]

Slamming away for the moment

 
That looks like an "interesting" socket solution to plug the Stax in

 

[Whitigir]

That looks like an "interesting" socket solution to plug the Stax in

Who could wait a few weeks for the dang sockets lol

 

[Whitigir]

Carbon with 009 ? After a few weeks with it I can confidently say that it is magical sound that I have ever came across. Well, I started out from portable and dynamic drivers. Always tried to stay away from stationary, but did not matter howmuch I progress...the part of me was never really satisfied. Those upper mid detail without harshness the extensionsof tiptop trebles without sibilant. I could never found it in those dynamic setup. My latest was TA-ZH1Es and Utopia. Then I realized I finally jumped into "stationary". With an introduction to Stax by a friend purk

Well, I dug the Carbon and 009 instead of circling around which I would definitely spend more money than just shooting straight for something good. Carbon and 009 was a sweet spot to get in the Stax game.

The combo is so wonderful that any of the myths I came across before are voided and nulls

009 is no bass and all details ? No, 009 and Carbon is a bass monster, but not only that, it has the most beautiful balances, resolutions, and dynamic energy as in punches that I have ever heard. Separations and layering are excellent

009 is harsh and artificial ? Yes, if I tuned my 009 toward higher mA. I found that going for more than 17mA, then the tonality is thinned out while bass became so much faster and treble is more airy with more resolutions (sharper). It gives off an illusion of larger staging and imagines but some upper mid and upper high are harsh and mainly the tonal body got thinner for my taste. For all of that, I do use Sabre DAC which is known for it famous brightness 9038pro. Then silver wires everywhere. So your chain may be affected differently. Just saying that 009 and Carbon has the potential to be your ultimate rig, and it depends on your taste or setup

009 and Carbon has no grains, no funny micro distortions unless it is the errors in the recordings.

It is so wonderful that I am now can not help but wonder what T2 and it raving is all about ....had always been fancy tubes and it glows when I was a little child. I think I now have the perfect excuse to try and spend money again....LoL

 

[musicman59]

Carbon with 009 ? After a few weeks with it I can confidently say that it is magical sound that I have ever came across. Well, I started out from portable and dynamic drivers. Always tried to stay away from stationary, but did not matter howmuch I progress...the part of me was never really satisfied. Those upper mid detail without harshness the extensionsof tiptop trebles without sibilant. I could never found it in those dynamic setup. My latest was TA-ZH1Es and Utopia. Then I realized I finally jumped into "stationary". With an introduction to Stax by a friend @purk

Well, I dug the Carbon and 009 instead of circling around which I would definitely spend more money than just shooting straight for something good. Carbon and 009 was a sweet spot to get in the Stax game.

The combo is so wonderful that any of the myths I came across before are voided and nulls

009 is no bass and all details ? No, 009 and Carbon is a bass monster, but not only that, it has the most beautiful balances, resolutions, and dynamic energy as in punches that I have ever heard. Separations and layering are excellent

009 is harsh and artificial ? Yes, if I tuned my 009 toward higher mA. I found that going for more than 17mA, then the tonality is thinned out while bass became so much faster and treble is more airy with more resolutions (sharper). It gives off an illusion of larger staging and imagines but some upper mid and upper high are harsh and mainly the tonal body got thinner for my taste. For all of that, I do use Sabre DAC which is known for it famous brightness 9038pro. Then silver wires everywhere. So your chain may be affected differently. Just saying that 009 and Carbon has the potential to be your ultimate rig, and it depends on your taste or setup

009 and Carbon has no grains, no funny micro distortions unless it is the errors in the recordings.

It is so wonderful that I am now can not help but wonder what T2 and it raving is all about ....had always been fancy tubes and it glows when I was a little child. I think I now have the perfect excuse to try and spend money again....LoL

Let me know if you move on and want to sell your Carbon then 

 

[mulveling]

It is so wonderful that I am now can not help but wonder what T2 and it raving is all about ....had always been fancy tubes and it glows when I was a little child. I think I now have the perfect excuse to try and spend money again....LoL

If the Carbon sounds perfect to you now, that will change when you hear a proper DIY T2.

 

[Whitigir]

If the Carbon sounds perfect to you now, that will change when you hear a proper DIY T2.

Definitely ! Had you tried the T2 against Carbon ? this hobby is evil...seriously

 

[Pokemonn]

 

If the Carbon sounds perfect to you now, that will change when you hear a proper DIY T2.

Definitely ! Had you tried the T2 against Carbon ?

this hobby is evil...seriously

mulveling epic post is here post #7798
I'm going to DIY T2 route, take many time maybe. I'm reading "how to build tube amp" type basic books lol.