KGSShv Carbon - hows it sound with the 009s?

[arnaud]

Hugh better at the very least !

 

[astrostar59]

 
so you think the carbon will sound super to the kgsshv you have? so it must also be hugh better then the blue hawai?

My KGSShv off-board Sanyo 450v running at 10mA and compared to the BHSE with Mullard NOS tubes, the KGSShv had stronger bass and sounded warmer which may suit some systems i.e a bright DAC, and some music types. The BHSE was ahead with the Mullard NOS tubes in midrange and vocals, and the soundstage was wider and the treble was a bit brighter (but still smooth) with the NOS Mullards.
 
Hearing them together highlighted the difference, having either in a system to me would be a great setup and up there with the best headphone setup IMO. The convenience factor of a solid state design (leaving it on all day when I need to take the dogs out) is a big bonus to me, as is not having to fund tubes which can rack up to £400 a year depending which tubes you buy. Power tubes tend to last about 12-18 months approx and are much cheaper (generally) whereas pre-amp tubes can last 3 -5 years or more. Power tubes are basically swinging more current and give out more heat. So this cost aspect really needs to be factored into the ownership of any tube based power amplifier. However some of the things tubes do is difficult for certain audiophiles to live without.
 
The Carbon according to some who have both the Carbon and BHS is that they are close, even on par. This is exciting to me and I can't confirm that until I hear the Carbon myself. It depends just how good the Carbon is as to wether I keep the incoming BHSE. If there are things the BHSE do better that matter to me, I would ideally have both amps.
 
Going back to the KGSShv it is still a really great amp and a lot cheaper to buy or build. 
 
Hope this helps. 

 

[bmichels]

T2 is clearly superior to the Carbon - but it has tubes... and costs oodles of money...

Is the T2 easily obtainable or is it only a DIY that you need to built Yousself ?

can someone post a picture of the T2 ? I have no clue what it looks like !

 

[Blackmore]

DIY T2
 

 
 
The real T2
 

 

[astrostar59]

Is the T2 easily obtainable or is it only a DIY that you need to built Yousself ?

can someone post a picture of the T2 ? I have no clue what it looks like !

To build a T2 is a huge undertaking and not many have done it. The end game is probably the best Stat amp ever made, getting there may be difficult.
 
A used T2 (original) is possible but would be insane money and probably not run for long before it failed, as the design had problems mainly heat issues. Personally I would run away from that idea TBH.
 
I have never seen a used DIY T2. The best way would be find a builder and commission one. There are guys on here and over at the other place that have done that, and some have built it as well. It could be a life time amp i.e no way to better it, and you could have a say on how it looked (chassis). I can see why folk have done that.

 

[bmichels]

Thanks

Why the Hell STAX do not produce again the T2 ?? They already have all the R&D costs Fully Paid !

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

Thanks

Why the Hell STAX do not produce again the T2 ?? They already have all the R&D costs Fully Paid !

 
- VERY complicated to build (more than 540 components).
- VERY expensive to build (we're talking expensive to build, let alone to sell it)
- They need to ensure parts for 20 years (said by Stax)
- T2 bankrupted Stax in the nineties for all the above reasons.
 
Also, BHSE is a simplified version of the Stax T2.

 

[astrostar59]

   
- VERY complicated to build (more than 540 components).
- VERY expensive to build (we're talking expensive to build, let alone to sell it)
- They need to ensure parts for 20 years (said by Stax)
- T2 bankrupted Stax in the nineties for all the above reasons.
 
Also, BHSE is a simplified version of the Stax T2.

It also proved to be a space heater and unreliable (understatement).

 

[purk]

Thanks

Why the Hell STAX do not produce again the T2 ?? They already have all the R&D costs Fully Paid !

Well parts availability plays an important role here as well as a final price tag of 12k or above. They also can't use the old chassis due to lack of proper heat dissipation. Power supply is also not adequate and said to suffer from humming issues. I love the look of the old chassis though.

 

[JimL11]

Well parts availability plays an important role here as well as a final price tag of 12k or above. They also can't use the old chassis due to lack of proper heat dissipation. Power supply is also not adequate and said to suffer from humming issues. I love the look of the old chassis though.

Yeah, a lot of the high voltage transistors used in the old T2 are no longer available.  In fact that's an issue with any amp that uses high voltage solid state devices - they become obsolete, and have to be re-designed, or at least re-specified for currently available devices.  The Stax amps that were built over a period of a decade or more have different "versions" simply due to some transistors becoming obsolete and needing to be replaced by others.  Not so much an issue with tube amps because tubes are already obsolete 

 

[georgep]

Yeah, a lot of the high voltage transistors used in the old T2 are no longer available.  In fact that's an issue with any amp that uses high voltage solid state devices - they become obsolete, and have to be re-designed, or at least re-specified for currently available devices.  The Stax amps that were built over a period of a decade or more have different "versions" simply due to some transistors becoming obsolete and needing to be replaced by others.  Not so much an issue with tube amps because tubes are already obsolete 

Actually, even though pretty much all the transistors in the t2 are obsolete, they are still available and fakes are easily avoided if you use the right sources. Now the prices are fairly high for those transistors, so there may be some sticker shock and no commercial viability. But similarly with tubes, they are still out there, they just cost a pretty penny.

 

[purk]

Actually, even though pretty much all the transistors in the t2 are obsolete, they are still available and fakes are easily avoided if you use the right sources. Now the prices are fairly high for those transistors, so there may be some sticker shock and no commercial viability. But similarly with tubes, they are still out there, they just cost a pretty penny.

George,
 
By now you probably have built several T2s.  Do you still think very highly of them?  

 

[JimL11]

Actually, even though pretty much all the transistors in the t2 are obsolete, they are still available and fakes are easily avoided if you use the right sources. Now the prices are fairly high for those transistors, so there may be some sticker shock and no commercial viability. But similarly with tubes, they are still out there, they just cost a pretty penny.

True, but remember that the original question was why Stax didn't just start building the T2 again?  It's one thing for a hobbyist to buy the obsolete transistors to build a one-off, but quite another thing for a company to try to build a design using obsolete parts.  And as far as tubes go, with the exception of the 6S4A, which is an obsolete tube that has no current demand (it was designed to be used in tube TVs - seen any of those recently?), all the tubes that are being used in current designs (6DJ8, 6CG7/6FQ7, EL34, 12AT7, 6SN7GTA) are currently being produced and are not obsolete.

 

[AnakChan]

#1 sounds like the question isn't about why Stax isn't building the T2 again but more like "Why doesn't Stax start building a T2 successor with currently available components?"

#2 this is aslo getting Off-Topic. This is a Carbon thread. Let's stick to the Carbon & comparisons with or against it.

 

[georgep]

 
True, but remember that the original question was why Stax didn't just start building the T2 again?  It's one thing for a hobbyist to buy the obsolete transistors to build a one-off, but quite another thing for a company to try to build a design using obsolete parts.  And as far as tubes go, with the exception of the 6S4A, which is an obsolete tube that has no current demand (it was designed to be used in tube TVs - seen any of those recently?), all the tubes that are being used in current designs (6DJ8, 6CG7/6FQ7, EL34, 12AT7, 6SN7GTA) are currently being produced and are not obsolete.

 
Totally agree, hence my comment "no commercial viability". Just wanting to clarify the perception that parts are unavailable, as there are oodles of them still available, especially if you can buy in Japan.
 

  George,
 
By now you probably have built several T2s.  Do you still think very highly of them?  

 
Yes. Have not heard anything better, including the Carbon. But to clarify, I have not heard the BHSE, any Cavalli, Woo or Eddie Current, so could not compare those. You are in a much better position than me in the comparison department. The Carbon is still an amazing amp though - especially for a one-box solution with no need for a supply of tubes.