[Dawnrazor]

Another snake oil, thanks I am too pragmatic for that.

How do you know? Isnt the scientific approach to test things through experimenting? Dismissing things out of hand doesn't sound all that pragmatic.

 

[Dawnrazor]

It's either DAC driver or OS related. I have Yulong Sabre DA8 at work and some ancient version of Wn10, that one works as true exclusive in ASIO mode. I am pretty sure that was the case with my Vega but I see the difference now on the latest Win10 stack (1903).
No idea, may be they have closed that door and funnel everything through wasapi now.
Are you fully up to date with Win10, 1903 release with latest patches?

Ok I checked. All I do is play audio on that pc. Its 1803 release. Doubtful I will spend money to update it past the free options. Its not a good idea for good sound to use a machine that does email and surfs the web to play music...

 

[bfreedma]

How do you know? Isnt the scientific approach to test things through experimenting? Dismissing things out of hand doesn't sound all that pragmatic.

Nothing that product does can improve audio unless you’re running a 15 year old PC that’s seriously CPU constrained. And it doesn’t do anything you couldn’t do in the OS manually if you wanted to try for yourself. Stopping a bunch of processes and changing thread priorities has zero impact on audio reproduction. The claims on the website of audible change and a more analog sound are, frankly, absurd.

Just run WASAPI in Exclusive Mode on any non resource constrained PC and you’re fine.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Another snake oil, thanks I am too pragmatic for that.

Come on Andrew, haha

Have you checked reviews ?
https://www.highend-audiopc.com/reviews

Bascom King has a great opinion of the software, he is a senior, serious audio designer.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Weird. I always use Asio and never had signals mix from other players or windows. Unless the dac had a mixer option. Most asio drivers are exclusive by nature I think. My old Lynx ASIO driver could only be used by one program. You had to close down before another program could grab the driver.

Op try asio too if you can. Sometimes dacs work better with one or the other.

Neither do I,

I agree, some dacs work better with different WDM.

 

[bfreedma]

Come on Andrew, haha

Have you checked reviews ?
https://www.highend-audiopc.com/reviews

Bascom King has a great opinion of the software, he is a senior, serious audio designer.

Bascom King is an EE, not an Windows platform expert. Note that in his comments, the laptop he is using had the optimization software preinstalled, so he isn’t doing any kind of before and after comparison. Audio reproduction on a Windows PC is not the arcane magic that vendors of “improvement” software want you to believe it is.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Nothing that product does can improve audio unless you’re running a 15 year old PC that’s seriously CPU constrained. And it doesn’t do anything you couldn’t do in the OS manually if you wanted to try for yourself. Stopping a bunch of processes and changing thread priorities has zero impact on audio reproduction. The claims on the website of audible change and a more analog sound are, frankly, absurd.

Just run WASAPI in Exclusive Mode on any non resource constrained PC and you’re fine.

Bingo, learn the tech people. Too much voodoo junk in this audiophile business already.
But, whatever tickles your fancy. All these "optimizations" could be relevant decade ago, modern systems deal with multitasking without breaking a sweat. There is one best optimization you can do, get a better computer with modern multi-core CPU.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Bascom King is an EE, not an Windows platform expert. Note that in his comments, the laptop he is using had the optimization software preinstalled, so he isn’t doing any kind of before and after comparison. Audio reproduction on a Windows PC is not the arcane magic that vendors of “improvement” software want you to believe it is.

In my opinion, there's a chance that software really improve sound quality.
I know Bascom King is not a window platform expert, however is a experienced man with ears.
Designers on that position take care of what they say, even though there was no comparison before and after he compared sound with his player OPPO BDP 105.

 

[bfreedma]

In my opinion, there's a chance that software really improve sound quality.
I know Bascom King is not a window platform expert, however is a experienced man with ears.
Designers on that position take care of what they say, even though there was no comparison before and after he compared sound with his player OPPO BDP 105.

You’re certainly welcome to your opinion. It doesn’t impact the facts at hand though.

Designers need to market their products to sell them. That often results in making unsupported and unsupportable statements. I do agree that the digital output of his PC is comparable to an Oppo 105. The digital output from my PC without any magic optimization sounds exactly the same as the digital output from my Oppo...

 

[Dawnrazor]

Nothing that product does can improve audio unless you’re running a 15 year old PC that’s seriously CPU constrained. And it doesn’t do anything you couldn’t do in the OS manually if you wanted to try for yourself. Stopping a bunch of processes and changing thread priorities has zero impact on audio reproduction. The claims on the website of audible change and a more analog sound are, frankly, absurd.

Just run WASAPI in Exclusive Mode on any non resource constrained PC and you’re fine.

Have you tried the os tweaks manually yourself? Or are you just guessing? Have you stopped a bunch of processes and changed thread priorities? And listened?

I can't speak to the linked product but I have done os tweaks and the sound is noticeable.

In fact I set up a surface tablet using the audio tips on the focusrite web site explaining how to optimise windows 10 for audio. Spent a few hours playing with it and things were great. months go by and the surface is not cutting it (i forget the exact reason but it had to do with the battery or needing to always turn it on something that made it a pain after a few months. But sounded great.).

So I get a new fanless mini with windows 10. Hook up the dac install the same programs and am ready to go. But the same dac now sounded HORRIBLE. Like returnable horrible. I had forgotten to do the Focusrite optimizations! I did them and viola the sound is now like it was on the Surface. And the pc is dedicated only to audio and my dac is an ethernet dac. One would think that an ethernet dac would be immune from what was going on in the computer.

Take an hour and do some os tweaks for free that are listed on the Focusrite site....

 

[bfreedma]

Have you tried the os tweaks manually yourself? Or are you just guessing? Have you stopped a bunch of processes and changed thread priorities? And listened?

I can't speak to the linked product but I have done os tweaks and the sound is noticeable.

In fact I set up a surface tablet using the audio tips on the focusrite web site explaining how to optimise windows 10 for audio. Spent a few hours playing with it and things were great. months go by and the surface is not cutting it (i forget the exact reason but it had to do with the battery or needing to always turn it on something that made it a pain after a few months. But sounded great.).

So I get a new fanless mini with windows 10. Hook up the dac install the same programs and am ready to go. But the same dac now sounded HORRIBLE. Like returnable horrible. I had forgotten to do the Focusrite optimizations! I did them and viola the sound is now like it was on the Surface. And the pc is dedicated only to audio and my dac is an ethernet dac. One would think that an ethernet dac would be immune from what was going on in the computer.

Take an hour and do some os tweaks for free that are listed on the Focusrite site....

Yes, I’ve made various OS tweaks and have examined detailed performance metrics pre and post change.

I’m either an anonymous guy on the internet talking out of my hat or an anonymous guy on the internet with decades experience in platform design, implementation, performance tuning, and monitoring various systems, many of which need to meet stringent operating thresholds due to regulatory compliance where failure could impact safety and/or incur significant financial penalty who finds claims made by the audio “optimization” software vendors professionally offensive. Charging people for software is what I take issue with. Making information available for free to experiment with is a different story.

is it impossible that system tuning could fix issues? No. But in those rare situations in 2019, the problem would be with the original system configuration which is where the root cause should be addressed, not with targeted OS tweaks.

Some of the Focusrite recommendations are just basic common sense (disabling system sounds for example). Some are not only not going to impact audio reproduction, they are awful recommendations that put your system and data at significant risk (disabling firewalls and anti-virus software)

 

[moriez]

Nothing that product does can improve audio unless you’re running a 15 year old PC that’s seriously CPU constrained. And it doesn’t do anything you couldn’t do in the OS manually if you wanted to try for yourself. Stopping a bunch of processes and changing thread priorities has zero impact on audio reproduction. The claims on the website of audible change and a more analog sound are, frankly, absurd.

Booooyaaa.. What's next? Statements of such certainty isn't working to no one's advantage and a sure online reputation dent. The big question: how is that dismissal credible if you did not give the product a chance? What I'm reading is ugly assumptions based on how YOU think the world turns, period. That's what gets to me. And even if you would give it a chance I'm fairly certain the conclusion reached is: zero differences, like you told us, mainly because of how you're conditioned by the convictions you embrace and hold dear. I think your brain just doesn't allow it on the subconscious level. Really, daily default-deny limit reached sir.

It's also my sharp critique on ALL the hardcore nay-sayer mob and the endless repeat raid of 'it can't be' based on a science book or personal beliefs.
Speaking especially to readers who's minds are still flourishing. Open, not shut :\

You’re certainly welcome to your opinion. It doesn’t impact the facts at hand though.

And these facts again are..

Designers need to market their products to sell them. That often results in making unsupported and unsupportable statements. .

..these? Or what do you mean.

I’m either an anonymous guy on the internet talking out of my hat or an anonymous guy on the internet with decades experience in platform design, implementation, performance tuning, and monitoring various systems, many of which need to meet stringent operating thresholds due to regulatory compliance where failure could impact safety and/or incur significant financial penalty who finds claims made by the audio “optimization” software vendors professionally offensive.

Yes. So could it be that your field of expertise is why you believe what you believe which in turn influences what you're hearing? Leaving little to no space in your being/the mind to perceive (more) openly?
I think that exactly is what may be going on.

Some are not only not going to impact audio reproduction, they are awful recommendations that put your system and data at significant risk (disabling firewalls and anti-virus software)

(in your not so humble opinion)

 

[bfreedma]

Booooyaaa.. What's next? Statements of such certainty isn't working to no one's advantage and a sure online reputation dent. The big question: how is that dismissal credible if you did not give the product a chance? What I'm reading is ugly assumptions based on how YOU think the world turns, period. That's what gets to me. And even if you would give it a chance I'm fairly certain the conclusion reached is: zero differences, like you told us, mainly because of how you're conditioned by the convictions you embrace and hold dear. I think your brain just doesn't allow it on the subconscious level. Really, daily default-deny limit reached sir.

It's also my sharp critique on ALL the hardcore nay-sayer mob and the endless repeat raid of 'it can't be' based on a science book or personal beliefs.
Speaking especially to readers who's minds are still flourishing. Open, not shut :\




And these facts again are..



..these? Or what do you mean.




Yes. So could it be that your field of expertise is why you believe what you believe which in turn influences what you're hearing? Leaving little to no space in your being/the mind to perceive (more) openly?
I think that exactly is what may be going on.




(in your not so humble opinion)

Sorry, but asking me to validate this software individually the same as asking someone to jump off every building to prove gravity doesn't work. Do what you want/believe what you want. And if you can identify the specific technical reasons you believe this is different, post them and I'm happy to discuss
But in the real world, Computer and OS operational models including digital audio processing are well defined and well behaved.

I've tested the concepts this software executes repeatedly. On multiple identical systems imaged immediately prior to testing with identical OS configurations. Using metrics gathering and analysis software that would be too expensive for a hobbyist. At some point, the facts establish themselves via detailed data collection and evaluation.

If you believe turning off a firewall and security software on your Windows PC is a good idea, we really aren't going to find common ground.

 

[moriez]

Sorry, but asking me to validate this software individually the same as asking someone to jump off every building to prove gravity doesn't work.

I was only trying to capture what you said. But anyway, stunning reply! I guess best taken as a fine example of how mysteriously your mind works. Leaving it at that. I wish you a good day amigo.

 

[bfreedma]

I was only trying to capture what you said. But anyway, stunning reply! I guess best taken as a fine example of how mysteriously your mind works. Leaving it at that. I wish you a good day amigo.

It's not how my mind works, it's how computers and operating systems work. That isn't the big mystery you seem to believe it is.