[Zan.Tiago]

After digging on internet I found a software made in Switzerland called "Audiophile Optimizer"
I started to read the manual and I found this:

Kernel-Streaming is one available option Windows offers which is, in our opinion, by far the best option to choose even if it’s "ancient technology". You will get the best sound quality and stability, the lowest latency, and it works with most devices. A typical driver developer will certainly tell you WASAPI is the way to go, no doubt about that. But in the end, you should use whatever sounds best to your ears and matches your system. No matter if you use Kernel-Streaming, ASIO or WASAPI, you will enjoy a unique audio experience.

I deiced to do a little bit of research and after a hard time trying to download Kernel Streaming I start the comparison between WASAPI and Kernel Streaming.

Gentleman
This is not a small improvement in sound quality.
Sound stage is bigger, instrument separation improved, top end seems to be fixed and sound much real.
Normally, every Christmas I buy something new to my audio chain but this years the improvement has been done with KS. I knew something would change, but not that much! I have Windows 10 and used WASAPI.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

WDM-KS and WASAPI Exclusive send bitstream untouched to audio driver, not sure where the difference you are hearing comes from, honestly.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...music-players-foobar-jriver.7412/#post-171098

 

[Zan.Tiago]

WDM-KS and WASAPI Exclusive send bitstream untouched to audio driver, not sure where the difference you are hearing comes from, honestly.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...music-players-foobar-jriver.7412/#post-171098

Hello, Andrew

Have you tried WDM-KS already ?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Hello, Andrew

Have you tried WDM-KS already ?

Used it exclusively before WASAPI came along.
The guy whose post I linked has some more documentation on his github https://github.com/dechamps/FlexASIO/blob/master/BACKENDS.md
Quite an interesting read, I find this particular comment quite intriguing.

Compared to WASAPI Exclusive, Kernel Streaming is a much older API that is perceived as highly complex and less reliable. WASAPI Exclusive should be expected to provide better results in most cases. That said, it seems that Kernel Streaming, contrary to MME and DirectSound, is not implemented using WASAPI in current versions of Windows; therefore, it could conceivably behave differently in potentially interesting ways.

Does your device driver have ASIO support, it could be a better choice.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Used it exclusively before WASAPI came along.
The guy whose post I linked has some more documentation on his github https://github.com/dechamps/FlexASIO/blob/master/BACKENDS.md
Quite an interesting read, I find this particular comment quite intriguing.

Does your device driver have ASIO support, it could be a better choice.

Thank you for share, let me check

Yes it does, I have the little Micca Origen G2, always used WASAPI but believe me it sounds far better with KS.
It could be that WASAPI, ASIO or KS works better depending on the DAC driver.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Interesting discovery today.
Was playing with different outputs in JRiver, out of ASIO, KS, and WASAPI, only WASAPI exclusive was the one preventing other apps sharing audio device. They were either silenced or pushed to the next audio device in stack.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Interesting discovery today.
Was playing with different outputs in JRiver, out of ASIO, KS, and WASAPI, only WASAPI exclusive was the one preventing other apps sharing audio device. They were either silenced or pushed to the next audio device in stack.

I was cheeking those setting as well!
Open device for exclusive access is in the windows sound panel control as well.
Does make any difference to set it in JRiver as well ?
Instead of have the bit depth in automatic mode you should match it with the bit depth and sample rate of the windows control panel. As well it is better if you increase the buffering rate to 500 ms. That works for me.

Have you noticed any improve with the KS ?
Stills sounding more open and less colored to me than other WDM

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I was cheeking those setting as well!
Open device for exclusive access is in the windows sound panel control as well.
Does make any difference to set it in JRiver as well ?
Instead of have the bit depth in automatic mode you should match it with the bit depth and sample rate of the windows control panel. As well it is better if you increase the buffering rate to 500 ms. That works for me.

Have you noticed any improve with the KS ?
Stills sounding more open and less colored to me than other WDM

Setting in control panel only ALLOW device to run in exclusive mode. App, JRiver in that case, must also use WASAPI in exclusive mode, and this is what that setting is for. Neither KS or ASIO gave me that level of control, I could still hear sound coming from other sources during playback.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Setting in control panel only ALLOW device to run in exclusive mode. App, JRiver in that case, must also use WASAPI in exclusive mode, and this is what that setting is for. Neither KS or ASIO gave me that level of control, I could still hear sound coming from other sources during playback.

That's totally correct, in order to JRiver to send an exclusive stream mode (Only available with WASAPI), windows sound control panel needs to have enable "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device and Give exclusive mode applications priority"

I'm wondering, if those options are enable on Windows Control Panel and I use a WDM that doesn't have the option of
"open device for exclusive access" it would be useless, correct ?

I'm going to research why WDM-KS does not have the option of open device from for exclusive access.

But what if "open device for exclusive access" is just an extra layer ?
Without Exclusive Access, the default format in Sound control panel will be the only format that will play successfully. What if that's better and you just need to match Sound control panel with your files and JRiver ? What do you think ?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

That's totally correct, in order to JRiver to send an exclusive stream mode (Only available with WASAPI), windows sound control panel needs to have enable "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device and Give exclusive mode applications priority"

I'm wondering, if those options are enable on Windows Control Panel and I use a WDM that doesn't have the option of
"open device for exclusive access" it would be useless, correct ?

I'm going to research why WDM-KS does not have the option of open device from for exclusive access.

But what if "open device for exclusive access" is just an extra layer ?
Without Exclusive Access, the default format in Sound control panel will be the only format that will play successfully. What if that's better and you just need to match Sound control panel with your files and JRiver ? What do you think ?

Technically KS as well as ASIO should bypass windows stack, but I do not see that happening with my Auralic Vega DAC and latest version of Win10. WASAPI works like a clock though. May be they have changed something at OS level recently or ASIO and KS drivers are not native implementation and just wrappers on the top of WASAPI.

 

[Zan.Tiago]

Technically KS as well as ASIO should bypass windows stack, but I do not see that happening with my Auralic Vega DAC and latest version of Win10. WASAPI works like a clock though. May be they have changed something at OS level recently or ASIO and KS drivers are not native implementation and just wrappers on the top of WASAPI.

Yeah,

Anyway, have you checked this ?

https://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer

 

[Dawnrazor]

Weird. I always use Asio and never had signals mix from other players or windows. Unless the dac had a mixer option. Most asio drivers are exclusive by nature I think. My old Lynx ASIO driver could only be used by one program. You had to close down before another program could grab the driver.

Op try asio too if you can. Sometimes dacs work better with one or the other.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Yeah,

Anyway, have you checked this ?

https://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer

Another snake oil, thanks I am too pragmatic for that.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Weird. I always use Asio and never had signals mix from other players or windows. Unless the dac had a mixer option. Most asio drivers are exclusive by nature I think. My old Lynx ASIO driver could only be used by one program. You had to close down before another program could grab the driver.

Op try asio too if you can. Sometimes dacs work better with one or the other.

It's either DAC driver or OS related. I have Yulong Sabre DA8 at work and some ancient version of Wn10, that one works as true exclusive in ASIO mode. I am pretty sure that was the case with my Vega but I see the difference now on the latest Win10 stack (1903).
No idea, may be they have closed that door and funnel everything through wasapi now.
Are you fully up to date with Win10, 1903 release with latest patches?

 

[Dawnrazor]

It's either DAC driver or OS related. I have Yulong Sabre DA8 at work and some ancient version of Wn10, that one works as true exclusive in ASIO mode. I am pretty sure that was the case with my Vega but I see the difference now on the latest Win10 stack (1903).
No idea, may be they have closed that door and funnel everything through wasapi now.
Are you fully up to date with Win10, 1903 release with latest patches?

I don't know. That is my music computer and I just play music off of it. Never even look at it. Control is by smart phone. I think I have it updating. But asio bypasses the audio stack and well the os shouldnt mess with asio. Every studio would be pissed. Computer is about 6 months old.