[Alwayswantmore]

FYI, RWA announced an upcoming price increase for the Sig 30. More...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219795

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmarshl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Consider upgrading the cabling on your K1000s. I found that it made a great difference, particularly when being driven by the FirstWatt F1.

To my understanding the Firstwatt F1, being a current source amplifier, will ignore everything in series with the speaker driver (eg speaker wires).

I'm gonna have to vote "placebo"

edit: to quote the F1 service manual

Quote:

A current source amplifier delivers a precise current to the voice coil of the loudspeaker driver, ignoring the series impedance elements in the circuit, including the wire, the inductance of the voice coil, the resistance of the voice coil versus temperature – all that stuff.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif To my understanding the Firstwatt F1, being a current source amplifier, will ignore everything in series with the speaker driver (eg speaker wires). I'm gonna have to vote "placebo" edit: to quote the F1 service manual

there is a difference between postulating about listening to something and actually listening to something. While I respect theory trying it and hearing if it changes things it when the rubber hits the road.

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif there is a difference between postulating about listening to something and actually listening to something. While I respect theory trying it and hearing if it changes things it when the rubber hits the road.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[hugz]

Except that the whole point of a current source amplifier is to ignore inline resistance. Without this the amplifier would be kinda pointless.

I dunno why people act as if all other realities are void as soon as cables are mentioned.

If you don't respect the opinion of the creator of the amplifier to it's purpose then why buy one? *Clearly* Mr Pass has no idea what he's talking about, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif there is a difference between postulating about listening to something and actually listening to something. While I respect theory trying it and hearing if it changes things it when the rubber hits the road.

If double blind testing can prove the theory wrong then I will be willing to believe the claim. In the meantime I'm going to stick with the tested theory on how current source amplifiers work.

Placebo is a very powerful thing.

Alternatively, there could be something drastically wrong with the stock k1000 cable which can be fixed by replacing it with $1 cable (and thus a $100 cable will also fix it), but I'm going to go and make an assumption that AKG managed to put normal wire on their top model

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Except that the whole point of a current source amplifier is to ignore inline resistance. Without this the amplifier would be kinda pointless. I dunno why people act as if all other realities are void as soon as cables are mentioned. If you don't respect the opinion of the creator of the amplifier to it's purpose then why buy one? *Clearly* Mr Pass has no idea what he's talking about, right?

First off, no one said whether your conclusions were right or wrong. The whole reason you got the response you did is because you come in here and tell someone that their opinion is wrong when you have no first hand experience. Your post is yet another example of someone who doesn't believe in cables commenting for the sole purpose of instigating.

I dunno why people who don't believe in cables feel like they need to prove the believers wrong every chance they get.


Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Placebo is a very powerful thing.

Yes it is but please remember that it isn't a one way street.

 

[hugz]

I'm not saying whether or not cables will make a difference in a hifi scenario. That's another discussion for another thread (or more realistically, another discussion that has been spread over about a million threads in the past with on resolution)

What I AM saying is that a current source amplifier, such as the Firstwatt, will ignore wire in series with the speaker driver: a claim made by both the theory of current source amplifiers, and the designer of the Firstwatt line of amplifiers.

This is a fact that's worth pointing out to prevent someone from spending a bunch of money to do something which should have no affect.

My firstwatt should hopefully be done in a few days. Would you like me to post up when I have first hand experience?

Edit: and although I personally have no first hand experience, if you look at my original post (which people took offense to) you will see that I was merely posting what Nelson Pass has said. No one on the planet has more first hand experience with the firstwatt amplifier than Mr Pass. Probably no one on the planet has more experience with current source amplifiers than Mr Pass.

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif My firstwatt should hopefully be done in a few days. Would you like me to post up when I have first hand experience?

Sure, but I seriously doubt it will change either of our opinions. Like I said placebo is not a one way street.

 

[randytsuch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not saying whether or not cables will make a difference in a hifi scenario. That's another discussion for another thread (or more realistically, another discussion that has been spread over about a million threads in the past with on resolution) What I AM saying is that a current source amplifier, such as the Firstwatt, will ignore wire in series with the speaker driver: a claim made by both the theory of current source amplifiers, and the designer of the Firstwatt line of amplifiers. This is a fact that's worth pointing out to prevent someone from spending a bunch of money to do something which should have no affect. My firstwatt should hopefully be done in a few days. Would you like me to post up when I have first hand experience? Edit: and although I personally have no first hand experience, if you look at my original post (which people took offense to) you will see that I was merely posting what Nelson Pass has said. No one on the planet has more first hand experience with the firstwatt amplifier than Mr Pass. Probably no one on the planet has more experience with current source amplifiers than Mr Pass.

Nelson Pass is looking at it from the amps point of view. The amp may ignore the speaker wire and such, as it is driving current and not voltage.
However, the current/voltage still has to pass through the wire, and the wire can mess up the sound. No amp can get around that.

Randy

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by randytsuch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nelson Pass is looking at it from the amps point of view. The amp may ignore the speaker wire and such, as it is driving current and not voltage. However, the current/voltage still has to pass through the wire, and the wire can mess up the sound. No amp can get around that. Randy

That is a very good point.

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoZX /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is a very good point.

So first hand experience is no longer any good, if the holder of the most experience doesn't agree with one person's account? I can see that this conversation will go far.

Like I said, if the k1000's stock wire is seriously messed up beyond the spec of normal wire than I'd agree that it could cause problems.

Out side of that, however, the firstwatt should ignore all inductance and resistance of the wire. I'm not sure about capacitance.

I'll try to put a 1ohm resistor in series with my 8 ohm speakers to see what happens. I'm not sure if I have any 1 ohms on hand though. I'll try whatever I can find

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Like I said, if the k1000's stock wire is seriously messed up beyond the spec of normal wire than I'd agree that it could cause problems. Out side of that, however, the firstwatt should ignore all inductance and resistance of the wire. I'm not sure about capacitance. I'll try to put a 1ohm resistor in series with my 8 ohm speakers to see what happens. I'm not sure if I have any 1 ohms on hand though. I'll try whatever I can find

Well with that point this has just turned into the same old tired argument that as you said has been discussed a million times before.

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoZX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well with that point this has just turned into the same old tired argument that as you said has been discussed a million times before.

Yup I'm done here too. Theory says one thing, some people say other thing, some people say the other other thing. blah blah blah

I'll try some tests with my amp and speakers when I have the chance. If I can i'll blind test it, but I'm not sure that'd work since my placebo would be pointing in the direction of "i cant heard a difference", so regardless of blind or not that's all I'd get (assuming placebo comes into play.. which is a safe assumption for anything aside from day-and-night differences).

I need to find a cable believer to do the blind test with, and not tell him that it's a current source amplifier!

 

[PsychoZX]

Well I apologize if I have come off as a jerk in this thread. I'm just tired of seeing this same old debate pop up everytime someone mentions cables.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yup I'm done here too. Theory says one thing, some people say other thing, some people say the other other thing. blah blah blah I'll try some tests with my amp and speakers when I have the chance. If I can i'll blind test it, but I'm not sure that'd work since my placebo would be pointing in the direction of "i cant heard a difference", so regardless of blind or not that's all I'd get (assuming placebo comes into play.. which is a safe assumption for anything aside from day-and-night differences). I need to find a cable believer to do the blind test with, and not tell him that it's a current source amplifier!

PS all I was saying was try it before it's dissimssed out of hand that's all.

Maybe try it with wire that is not costly like mogami or canare the worst that will happen it you'll spend 3-4 hours and 5 bucks rewiring and have a nicer cable that you can't hear a difference with