[Alwayswantmore]

OK, so you love listening to your K1000s. But do still find yourself wondering: “Am I really using the right amp to drive these crazy Austrian ear-speakers?” If yes, this thread is for you...

Introduction

For the past three months I’ve gone through an amazing journey discovering what K1000s have to offer. My experience -- documented in this thread -- begins with an admittedly overkill 2ch system, inclusive of Vandersteen subwoofer and a pricy balanced crossover. In fact, retail for my amp/xover/cable/woofer topped the $6,000 mark when new. But even with all this (IMO) expensive gear, I'm still not satisfied that I'm getting the most K1000s have to offer. So that is why I now undertake this quest to find a "K1000-appropriate" amp...

F1 and Sig 30 in the house!

For the past several days I’ve been going through an orientation process with two interesting contenders: First Watt’s F1 and Red Wine Audio’s Signature 30. Both amps are built by (very) small companies, dedicated to achieving great sound quality. Both are 'affordable' when measured in K1000-dollars. Both have received top accolades from Srajan Ebaen, 6moons’ founder and self-admitted K1000 fan. But the similarities end here. The design principles behind these amps are dramatically different from each other -- and likely from most if not all amps you currently know.

Here's the deal...

I’ll leave the details for amp design (along with in-depth reviews) to others more suited to the task. I do, however, have a big decision to make: “Can either of these amps beat my current setup for delivering a more pleasurable listening experience (for my ears / taste)?” So in this mini-blog I'll share my thoughts, impressions and discoveries in my quest to pick a long-term mate for my K1000s.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

My reference system

My current rig is covered in-depth in my K1000 blog, so I’ll spare the details in this thread. Two points are worth noting for newcomers:

1. Even with inclusion of a subwoofer, achieving musically satisfying bass has been one of the greatest challenges with my current rig.

2. My other major criticism for my current rig is lack of versatility: While my monster system does great with top-shelf audiophile recordings, at times it can be edgy on some commercial recordings. Almost like the power and detail delivered by my rig are too much of a good thing when it comes to driving K1000s.

First Watt F1

Nelson Pass amps, including his First Watt series are not new to Headfiers. If anything, reading recent posts, one might conclude that Pass amps are ‘the answer’ for reasonably affordable K1000 power.

I selected the F1 from the available Pass designs primarily based on Srajan’s enthusiasm for this amp. While no longer in production, F1s are offered as ‘reconditioned’ units from http://www.renohifi.com/. My unit set me back $1,900 plus $50 shipping. Mark at Reno offers a 30 day trial period, with a $100 restocking fee if the amp finds its way back to his doorstep.

6moons' review

The legend himself

RedWine Audio Signature 30

The Signature 30 is a brand new offering from Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio. Vinnie is a known player in the Headfi community, primarily for his iPod and Squeezbox mods. This amp takes a very non-traditional approach inclusive of running on rechargeable batteries (hummmm, with this amp you have the benefit of getting off the power grid!).

In his review of the Sig 30, Srajan declares “This is one of the three best transistor amps I've heard yet.” General buzz on the Web is no less enthusiastic, as demonstrated at this site.

Sweetening the deal even more, the Signature 30 will drive most 2ch speakers, and you can run this amp directly from your digital source (i.e. a line stage / preamp is optional with this amp). So at $1,400, this amp should -- at a minimum -- be on the short list of all price-sensitive K1000 owners looking to upgrade their rigs (with a 30-day money back guarantee, what do you have to lose?). As of today, the waiting list is about 5 weeks to get your mitts on one of these babies.

6moons' review

Vinnie Rossi

 

[Alwayswantmore]

I did my best to read all the user manuals, reviews, posts and PMs I could put my hands on when choosing these two amps. But in the end, only Srajan from 6moons has been in the position to try K1000s partnered to a number of good amps. This quote comes from his Signature 30 review...

"For the now discontinued AKG K-1000 earspeakers, the Signature 30 shares the stage with the FirstWatt F1 current-source amp as an ideal partner. The latter's otherworldly control in this context is ultimately more resolved and accurate and would thus be the choice for a recording engineer. The 30 is warmer and slightly mellower to perfectly suit endless pleasure listening sessions."

I interpret this to mean: "Are you an audiophile or a music lover?" For me, at least, this may not be an easy decision.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

From top to bottom:

Wadia 830 CDP, with P upgrade

Ayre V-3
About $3,500 when new. Available on Audiogon for $1,000 - $1,400. Mine is at the K level (there is a newer upgrade I do not have).

First Watt F1
Available reconditioned for about $1,900.

Signature 30
New for $1,400. This is an optional upgrade to a remote volume control.

 

[choariwap]

man! suspense is killing me!

not that i have a choice in the matter, as i already bought all the parts to build my f1 clone

 

[003]

How much does the F1 cost? I thought I read somewhere there are only 100 of them. Is that true? And is it only for running balanced? What other amps are just as good with the K1000? I am very unfamilier with what amps are good with it, the only reason I have an SM-70 Pro is because vpivinylspinner said it sounds much better than it should for the price, and I got a really good deal on ebay for it.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by choariwap man! suspense is killing me! not that i have a choice in the matter, as i already bought all the parts to build my f1 clone

Sorry. Rest assured, once I got my Wadia on the correct settings (this took several days), both amps now sound great. In fact, when it comes to K1000s, I'm pretty sure both of these will surpass my V-3.

F1 and bass

I can safely say both the F1 and Sig 30 outperform my V-3 in terms of bass performance. This may seem counter intuitive (...wouldn't a 100 watt amp outperform these smaller contenders?), but based on my experience it doesn’t work that way. Damping factor or other electrical properties beyond my comprehension may be at play here (too much amp for such small drivers?).

If you give a careful read to 6moons' F1 review and First Watt's F1 user manual, you'll see that the F1 is unique in that it drives current rather than voltage. This current design is only suited for single driver speakers (i.e. no standard crossovers), so don't expect the F1 to sound good with standard monitor or bookshelf speakers. On the other hand, current amps are known for having great control in single driver applications (K1000s are also single driver).

The bottom line is that the F1 absolutely excels in terms of K1000 bass accuracy and response. Not as deep as my V-3 + Vandersteen sub woofer, but it has a very real quality, and I prefer it to the V-3 sub.

Signature 30 burn in

I'm putting some hours on the Signature 30 before giving it a serious listen (currently I'm at ~50 hours -- Vinnie recommends 100 hour min).

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 How much does the F1 cost? .

I got mine for $1,900. This was reconditioned by Nelson himself (the unit looks new -- even the box and packing look new). Contact Mark at http://www.renohifi.com to see if he has one. He is the only authorized outlet for the full First Watt product line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 I thought I read somewhere there are only 100 of them. Is that true?

I read this too. But my unit is SN 5xx, so I don't know what the real story is on this question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 And is it only for running balanced?

F1 accepts single end or balanced inputs. Either way it drives K1000s in balanced mode.

BTW: The Signature 30 accepts single end only. But like the F1, its outputs are balanced (see the balanced 101 thread in my sig if you want more on balanced).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 What other amps are just as good with the K1000? I am very unfamilier with what amps are good with it, the only reason I have an SM-70 Pro is because vpivinylspinner said it sounds much better than it should for the price, and I got a really good deal on ebay for it.

There have been several K1000 amp threads on Headfi.

 

[JzzMaTzz]

Cool thread

I have the F1 and love it, the only down side is needing volume control so right now I'm looking for a universal player with an attenuator and balanced outs. RWA sig. 30 should be nice, used to have Vinnie's clari-t amp which showed alot of potential with the K1000s.

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore I got mine for $1,900. This was reconditioned by Nelson himself (the unit looks new -- even the box and packing look new). Contact Mark at http://www.renohifi.com to see if he has one. He is the only authorized outlet for the full First Watt product line.

Lol, I can't even hope of affording that anytime soon, I got my SM-70 Pro for about $600! It goes for about $1000 new. I was just asking because I was wondering if it was worth saving for -- as in if there were more than 100 being made.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JzzMaTzz Cool thread I have the F1 and love it, the only down side is needing volume control so right now I'm looking for a universal player with an attenuator and balanced outs. RWA sig. 30 should be nice, used to have Vinnie's clari-t amp which showed alot of potential with the K1000s.

In my opinion Wadia is an ideal match for your criteria. Used 830s and 801s/802s run in the mid-$1000s. New units run much more. Of all the gear I've ever bought, I consider my 830 to be one of the best audio investments I've ever made!

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 Lol, I can't even hope of affording that anytime soon, I got my SM-70 Pro for about $600! It goes for about $1000 new. I was just asking because I was wondering if it was worth saving for -- as in if there were more than 100 being made.

Because the F1 only works well in single driver applications, the market is very limited for this amp. My guess is they will continue to show up used or reconditioned.

 

[JzzMaTzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore In my opinion Wadia is an ideal match for your criteria. Used 830s and 801s/802s run in the mid-$1000s. New units run much more. Of all the gear I've ever bought, I consider my 830 to be one of the best audio investments I've ever made!

Yeah I know but I want it all

SACD, DVDA.....

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Clarification on Sig 30s attenuator: The following is from an e-mail exchange I had with Vinnie. My question had to do with the merits of using or not using a line stage / preamp with the Sig 30. Vinnie gave permission for me to post this response...

"Short of input select switching, there is no need for a dedicated line stage. I prefer to connect my source directly to the Signature 30 and use the Signature 30's DACT attenuator to adjust the volume. Adding a linestage (e.g. a tube preamp) will add coloration....which may or may not be a good thing. In my opinion, if you really like the sound of your source, feed it directly into the Signature 30. You'll get the most transparency this way, as the signal path is greatly reduced. No active line stage means you bypass the complexity of that linestage's circuitry and design, interconnects, and no noise (power supply noise) added by that linestage.

Still, some might want to add "flavor" to their source and an active linestage can do this, for better or worse. That is really up to the taste of the listener. Me? I always favor simplicity. For example, I connect my modded iPod directly to the Sig 30 using a short interconnect. I haven't looked back!

Again, as long as your like the sound of your source, why color it?"

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JzzMaTzz I'm looking for a universal player with an attenuator and balanced outs.

I would look into a custom singlepower preamp. I got one with everything but balanced in/out, as I'm not running balanced. Specs as follow:

Attenuator Impedance: 25K Ohm, series 24 position, gold contact
Channel Matching: less than .01% channel to channel
Distortion: none, so low that it is unmeasurable, 0%
Silver Solder used in all areas
Pure copper conductors
Large Silver contact selector switch

If what you are looking at is better and more expensive, I am sorry, like I said I'm very new to amps/preamps that are good with the K1000. The price of the passive preamp I got was $600.