[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xand1x I don't mean to reign on your blog but..

Nice. For those who do not recognize this, I think you are seeing 6moon's pairing for a tube preamp with the F1. xand1x, how does it sound???

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JzzMaTzz what volt range are you using to drive the F1?

I'm still playing with settings. Remind me in a couple days and I'll let you know what I finally decide.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

I'm using a Denon DM340 CD changer to burn in the Sig 30 (so I can keep hours off my Wadia). Bought this unit new late 1995 for $240 (i.e. this is NOT a high-end player). Observations...

1. Setting the Sig 30s volume control to 12:00 - 1:00 is very loud.

2. Considering the source, the sound is amazingly good. Very musical, not at all bright or edgy, good imaging, and vocals / piano sound very natural. Given the source, it does, however, miss Wadia's expansive soundstage and subtle detail.

Based on this experience, I believe the Sig 30 is well suited to be driven from a 'normal' digital source. And anyone on a tight budget could probably use the Sig 30 in conjunction with a mid-range DAC, or modest CDP and still be happy driving K1000s.

On the other hand, based on my experience using my NAD 20 watt integrated receiver, you can couple K1000s & a great source with the wrong amp, and find the sound thin, bright and lacking bass. This combo does not suffer these shortcomings.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Yes, the Wadia is over engineered by design, intending to eliminate the need to use a separate line stage (kind of less is more philosophy). My unit puts out a max of 4.25 volts, which is about the same as your typical headamp. I’ve tried the Wadia at several gain settings, and find that both the 1 volt rms and 2.13 volt rms work well (when using the 2.13 volt setting, I typically use the digital volume control to reduce gain). So my guess is that anything in the 1 -2 volt range will be a good candidate for directly driving the Sig 30. I also recommend anyone wanting to know more about their particular situation contact Vinnie directly (via e-mail). He has been very helpful in my decision process and system setup.

Another reason it's very advantageous to have this feature is balanced preamps are really freakin' expensive by themselves, particularly good ones; honestly, I'd say even at its retail price, your Wadia was a savings in that regard.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmarshl I know that I may sound like a broken record, but you really need to try the K1000s in your setup with upgraded cabling. At a minimum, get rid of that terrible extension cable. I originally cut my extension cable back to six inches, just enough to connect to the F1. Even that made a discernable difference. Any of course doing a complete hardwire recabling (although challenging for all but the heartiest DIYer) really makes a huge difference.

I vote just the extension; I noticed a large discernable difference with it, and it only cost me $135 or so. I think the reason Always is reluctant on the upgraded cabling is A. the wait involved, and B. he's had bad luck with trying to remove and replace the grilles, let alone the recabling and how it was not exactly a smashing success before. A hardwire's just too expensive and too much trouble, and given the possible loss of detail, I'd say the extension is more of an 'in-between' point.

 

[xand1x]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Nice. For those who do not recognize this, I think you are seeing 6moon's pairing for a tube preamp with the F1. xand1x, how does it sound???

At first I was having some technical difficulty (ground loops in my house), so I wasn't able to say anything very positive. However, i've fixed those problems and i'm now hearing what the F1/Minimax combo really has to offer. To the point of being realistic I must say that this has been a significant transformation of my rig. Before the k1000 sounded great, in a technical sort of way, and has now gained musical persuation. For once I truely believe that i've hit the pinnacle of audio reproduction within my budget. (more impressions to come soon, in a thread of my own)

 

[Nightfall]

Based on Six Moon's review, and comments regarding it versus the F1 and the Signature 30, adding the First Watt F3 would really make this make this an interesting comparison!

And, its available to evaluate for only a $100.00 restocking fee if you found it less than what you hoped for.

JC

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Thank you to all of you for your interest and contributions to this thread...

Update: I'm approaching 100 hours on the Sig 30, so I'll try to blog comments from comparative listening in the next day or two.

Wadia's gain: Earlier there was a question regarding gain settings on the Wadia. For the F1, I'm currently set at 1 volt rms (I could get by at .5 volts). Wadia incorporates both mechanical and digital gain settings. The numbers I've been quoting are for the mechanical dip switches. I point this out because these numbers may not be relevant when considering alternative sources (I need extra gain in the mechanical settings to allow for attenuation in the digital domain -- again, it's a Wadia thing).

F1 burn in: The F1 is refurbished / refreshed by First Watt, so I do not know the number of hours. My unit looks new, so there is a good possibility it has very few hours. But this thing runs very !HOT!, so I can't bring myself to let it run nonstop in the middle of record heat (and likely record AC bills!). Currently I have less than 10 hours in setup / listening -- and that's all I intend to do prior to comparing to the Sig 30.

ICs: The two amps will NOT have a level playing field when it comes to cables. I'm using a Transparent Audio Super balanced cable for the F1 (about $900 new?). And the Sig 30 will be connected by an Audioquest Quartz single-end IC (about $160 new).

Music: While my music collection is very diverse, my critical listening leans mostly toward female vocals, some jazz and small instrumental. This preference will become evident in my initial picks for comparing the two amps.

 

[tmarshl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Thank you to all of you for your interest and contributions to this thread... Update: I'm approaching 100 hours on the Sig 30, so I'll try to blog comments from comparative listening in the next day or two. Wadia's gain: Earlier there was a question regarding gain settings on the Wadia. For the F1, I'm currently set at 1 volt rms (I could get by at .5 volts). Wadia incorporates both mechanical and digital gain settings. The numbers I've been quoting are for the mechanical dip switches. I point this out because these numbers may not be relevant when considering alternative sources (I need extra gain in the mechanical settings to allow for attenuation in the digital domain -- again, it's a Wadia thing). F1 burn in: The F1 is refurbished / refreshed by First Watt, so I do not know the number of hours. My unit looks new, so there is a good possibility it has very few hours. But this thing runs very !HOT!, so I can't bring myself to let it run nonstop in the middle of record heat (and likely record AC bills!). Currently I have less than 10 hours in setup / listening -- and that's all I intend to do prior to comparing to the Sig 30. ICs: The two amps will NOT have a level playing field when it comes to cables. I'm using a Transparent Audio Super balanced cable for the F1 (about $900 new?). And the Sig 30 will be connected by an Audioquest Quartz single-end IC (about $160 new). Music: While my music collection is very diverse, my critical listening leans mostly toward female vocals, some jazz and small instrumental. This preference will become evident in my initial picks for comparing the two amps.

Looking forward to your impressions, as I also have a Signature 30 on order (in addition to my F1). My guess is that they will be somewhat different in presentation, but each will be enjoyable in its own way.

The decision of which amplifier to keep may be a difficult one for you.

Will cost be a factor ($1800 for the F1 vs. $1400 for the Sig 30), or will this be a decision that you make purely on performance?

 

[Vic]

I hope I am not out of topic, but maybe someone can give me some technical explaination that I don't get.
I have the following posts in onether thread, but I believe the hot K1000 one is here:

"Yesterday I received the cable to connect the K1000 in balanced mode to my Supra XLR and must say that the first impressions are quite disappointing :

First of all I have to crank the volume of the Opus 21 at 99% and the one of the Supra at about 90% which is not good sign. The mids are a bit warmer and nicer than the K1000 out of my Unico, but the slam, impact and bass have gone away, guitars sound horrible.

I definitely believe there is not enough power. Maybe by tube rolling I will find a better synergy, or else the output of my Opus 21 is not enough at 5.5V at 100 Ohms.

As I said this is my first impression, but so far I clearly prefer the K1000 out of my Unison Unico, and I like my speakers much better"

.........................

"I don't think at the moment I want to go through the whole thing of getting a dedicated amp for the K1000, bearing in mind that here in Europe (and 220v) most of the amps listed here are almost impossible to find.
Also I have a speaker rig that I really like and a headphone amp that is really a bliss for traditional cans; and I have a pair of L3000 coming, so I thing for the wile I will stick with regular headphones.

Still I am quite surprised as I have heard a lot of comments of people happy with tube headphone amps, while with the Supra XLR the K1000 are without doubts under driven. Now, beside the much pore powerful power supply, being balanced it should have 4 times more power and double the slew rate.

There must be some technical explaination that I am not getting"....

 

[tmarshl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic I hope I am not out of topic, but maybe someone can give me some technical explaination that I don't get. I have the following posts in onether thread, but I believe the hot K1000 one is here: "Yesterday I received the cable to connect the K1000 in balanced mode to my Supra XLR and must say that the first impressions are quite disappointing : First of all I have to crank the volume of the Opus 21 at 99% and the one of the Supra at about 90% which is not good sign. The mids are a bit warmer and nicer than the K1000 out of my Unico, but the slam, impact and bass have gone away, guitars sound horrible. I definitely believe there is not enough power. Maybe by tube rolling I will find a better synergy, or else the output of my Opus 21 is not enough at 5.5V at 100 Ohms. As I said this is my first impression, but so far I clearly prefer the K1000 out of my Unison Unico, and I like my speakers much better" ......................... "I don't think at the moment I want to go through the whole thing of getting a dedicated amp for the K1000, bearing in mind that here in Europe (and 220v) most of the amps listed here are almost impossible to find. Also I have a speaker rig that I really like and a headphone amp that is really a bliss for traditional cans; and I have a pair of L3000 coming, so I thing for the wile I will stick with regular headphones. Still I am quite surprised as I have heard a lot of comments of people happy with tube headphone amps, while with the Supra XLR the K1000 are without doubts under driven. Now, beside the much pore powerful power supply, being balanced it should have 4 times more power and double the slew rate. There must be some technical explaination that I am not getting"....

I agree. It sounds like something is definitely wrong. I am sure that we must have the technical expertise here in head-fi to diagnose the problem.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmarshl The decision of which amplifier to keep may be a difficult one for you. Will cost be a factor ($1800 for the F1 vs. $1400 for the Sig 30), or will this be a decision that you make purely on performance?

SQ tops my list by a long shot, and I've got the budget to keep the F1. If I can't decide based on SQ, then price may become a factor.

 

[tkam]

Vic what tubes are using in the output positions?

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic I hope I am not out of topic, but maybe someone can give me some technical explaination that I don't get. I have the following posts in onether thread, but I believe the hot K1000 one is here: "Yesterday I received the cable to connect the K1000 in balanced mode to my Supra XLR and must say that the first impressions are quite disappointing : First of all I have to crank the volume of the Opus 21 at 99% and the one of the Supra at about 90% which is not good sign. The mids are a bit warmer and nicer than the K1000 out of my Unico, but the slam, impact and bass have gone away, guitars sound horrible. I definitely believe there is not enough power. Maybe by tube rolling I will find a better synergy, or else the output of my Opus 21 is not enough at 5.5V at 100 Ohms. As I said this is my first impression, but so far I clearly prefer the K1000 out There must be some technical explanation that I am not getting"....

Sorry you are experiencing problems

What is the stated output power for the amp?

Have you gone through basic trouble shooting to issolate problem to amp?...

1.The headphones and cable work fine with other amps?

2. Source and ICs work with other amps?

If both yes, then the problem is in the amp.

Have you tried the Supra with any other phones to make sure the amp is working properly?

At 5.5 volts, your Opus has more than enough power to drive any headphone amp (like way more than should be needed). Have you tried reducing the Opus volume (like maybe if it’s too loud so you're overloading the inputs???)?

Are you sure you have the headphones wired correctly (red / blue RIGHT and white / black LEFT)?

Does the amp have any settings for impedance or balanced vs single end?

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore Sorry you are experiencing problems What is the stated output power for the amp? Have you gone through basic trouble shooting to issolate problem to amp?... 1.The headphones and cable work fine with other amps? 2. Source and ICs work with other amps? If both yes, then the problem is in the amp. Have you tried the Supra with any other phones to make sure the amp is working properly? At 5.5 volts, your Opus has more than enough power to drive any headphone amp (like way more than should be needed). Have you tried reducing the Opus volume (like maybe if it’s too loud so you're overloading the inputs???)? Are you sure you have the headphones wired correctly (red / blue RIGHT and white / black LEFT)? Does the amp have any settings for impedance or balanced vs single end?

He is possibly trying to drive the k1000's with 6sn7 output tubes. Wont work!!