[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Z Hey Monkey; Try to see th whole thing from the vendor side also, before you come up with some unreasonable demands. Besides, I did not say that the buyer has to prove that there is a problem. Just give the vondor a chance to verify a few things before he rectifies the problem. That's a very basic business procedure.

It would be one thing if we were talking about the delivery of a major piece of farm equipment, but we're talking about consumer electronics. A replacement should be out the door ASAP. But reasonable minds can differ on this, of course.

But what if, as you suggest, the vendor waits before sending out the HPs and determines the fault is with itself, do you think the vendor should offer some sort of "makegood," such as a shipping refund or credit toward another purchase?

EDIT: warpdriver mentioned it before me. I guess I can see that approach; the vendor gets a short time to conduct its due diligence and if it cannot prove the consumer is lying, it sends out a new unit. Of course, the vendor also has been sitting on the consumer's money during this period, so it should also offer gift certificates or the like.

 

[Capt. Z]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey It would be one thing if we were talking about the delivery of a major piece of farm equipment, but we're talking about consumer electronics. A replacement should be out the door ASAP. But reasonable minds can differ on this, of course. But what if, as you suggest, the vendor waits before sending out the HPs and determines the fault is with itself, do you think the vendor should offer some sort of "makegood," such as a shipping refund or credit toward another purchase?

If this was about a major piece of farm equipment, than the vendor should...

But since this is only about some consumer electronics, I would say that there is no need for some sort of 'makegood', if the delay is within resonable time (like up to one week).

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey EDIT: warpdriver mentioned it before me. I guess I can see that approach; the vendor gets a short time to conduct its due diligence and if it cannot prove the consumer is lying, it sends out a new unit. Of course, the vendor also has been sitting on the consumer's money during this period, so it should also offer gift certificates or the like.

Yes, I think this is the approach the best vendors will take.

An example of a great vendor:
Headroom

They made a mistake when they sent me out a product. To make up for it, they not only sent out a replacement product quickly, but gave me an option for a very large discount on my next order, or a freebee (Bithead, $200 value). I accepted the Bithead

And not only that, because they didn't mark the value on the package correctly for Canada customs, I ended up paying taxes/duties on the replacement item (it should have been marked as "no commercial value" since I was sending the first one back). But Headroom *ate* the cost of those taxes for me by refunding me on my credit card instead of making me go through the long process of claiming a refund from Canada Customs.

So in the end, Headroom probably lost (lots?) of money on my purchase, but they have a customer for life.

I think this was exceptional, and for the most part, I don't expect other vendors to be THAT good.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Z If this was about a major piece of farm equipment, than the vendor should...

Lol, I'm not sure why I chose that as an example. Perhaps because I enjoy the growling bass and sweet mids of a tractor?

 

[LTUCCI1924]

I called J&R about compensation and they offered me a 15.00 gift card and I said do you really expect me to order anything from you again? I then said how about the 15.00 credit to my credit card and they said OK they will do that.

I paid 285.00 so this will make the price 270.00 for the new 650 that I will have MONDAY.

 

[BennyBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTUCCI1924 UPDATE. I just called J&R and talked to a rep. and found out that when they get the headphones from SENN. They can't look to see if the headphones are in the box because then it would be an open box idem. So with that in mind I think the problem is with Senn. and a possible thief in the co. My order is in prossing to send me a pair of 650 today or MONDAY. This is while the investigation is still in progress. I think J&R are a reputable co.

The 650's box is not sealed! I still thing its a J&R employee.

I just picked up my 650 box and its way to lite and feels empty to me.

Benny.

 

[BennyBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbriant If the package was weighed before shipping, that may be a way to prove the headphones weren't there. Of course it's likely J&R have automatic weight measurements or shipping costs for each product in their computers, or weight wasn't a factor in this particular shipping method. Still, it's worth looking at.

If the J&R shipping guy put in a fake weight #, no one would know.

 

[DougGreenberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Z Hey Monkey; Try to see th whole thing from the vendor side also, before you come up with some unreasonable demands. Besides, I did not say that the buyer has to prove that there is a problem. Just give the vondor a chance to verify a few things before he rectifies the problem. That's a very basic business procedure.

I'm the guy who was stiffed for a video iPod 60gb. I am a reasonable person and I am willing to let the vendor "verify a few things," but consider: I have purchased a number of items from J & R previously, including my $500 Shure E500 earphones just a few weeks ago. Clearly, their own computer records can verify that I have a "track record" as a good customer who has not made any kinds of waves previously. Second, this very thread suggests to me that they know full well that "something is going on" in their system. Consider that if several people who both participate in this forum and also have ordered recently from J & R have had this kind of catastrophic experience, there must be other cases, as well, perhaps a lot of them. This might just be the tip of a very unpleasant iceberg for them.

Consequently, you would think they would cut their losses, so to speak, by being extremely attentive and generous to those of us who have been victimized. I certainly don't begrudge them doing some checking, etc., but they should be doing all of this in more of a hurry than I perceive is happening, at least in my own case.

Let me add that an iPod really doesn't weigh all that much, and I am wondering if their weighing system used to determine shipping rates will really discern the difference between my parcel as actually received (which contained an additional item) and the same parcel with an iPod added to it. I'm guessing that if it's an "inside job," the thieves might well have an idea as to which parcels are easiest to pilfer without "smoking gun" detection.

 

[warpdriver]

Reading this thread is kind of distressing. I guess a single dishonest person (either at J&R shipping, UPS or whatever) can ruin the shopping experience for everybody.

J&R's reputation will definitely take a hit, and this makes me think twice about ordering online to save a couple of dollars.

 

[DougGreenberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver Reading this thread is kind of distressing. I guess a single dishonest person (either at J&R shipping, UPS or whatever) can ruin the shopping experience for everybody. J&R's reputation will definitely take a hit, and this makes me think twice about ordering online to save a couple of dollars.

That's exactly the point, one I've been trying to make both here and in my communications to J & R. Reputation is EVERYTHING in this kind of highly competitive business (and in most businesses, obviously). The price differences between J & R and a number of other vendors is minimal or nonexistent. Customers are going to be relying on reputation, and also their own previous experience. I actually have some sympathy for the people at J&R, as this situation must be distressing to them, as well. But they MUST do right by their customers or else the long-term consequences for them will be far greater than these relatively small (?) losses due to pilferage.

And now I wonder if they are aware that a LOT of people are following this little drama via these forums, which include a lot of people with a lot of potential buying power.

 

[F107plus5]

Ok....I admit it. Guilt plays a part in it. But I've been having so much fun with this forum that I have already decided to make all my phone(and audio)related purchases through Head-Fi sponsors if it's at all possible.

 

[VR6ofpain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver Reading this thread is kind of distressing. I guess a single dishonest person (either at J&R shipping, UPS or whatever) can ruin the shopping experience for everybody. J&R's reputation will definitely take a hit, and this makes me think twice about ordering online to save a couple of dollars.

Yup. I will never order electronics from J&R again. CD's maybe, but nothing more.

 

[stevesurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver Reading this thread is kind of distressing. I guess a single dishonest person (either at J&R shipping, UPS or whatever) can ruin the shopping experience for everybody. J&R's reputation will definitely take a hit, and this makes me think twice about ordering online to save a couple of dollars.

Dealing with high volume retailers and direct selling manufacturers sometimes leads to this, as there will always be an employee or shipper that will take the risk and steal product. May I recommend in-store pickup where possible? This permits you to pay low internet pricing, but verify the transaction at the store. Although I am not sure if J&R has this feature, it may be well worth it to deal with a reseller that does, or just start working with a supplier like the one of the Head-Fi sponsors.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Yeah..I was on Amazon.. They were selling the 650's for 364.00..They offerd other vendors like J&R which had them for 300.00. I chose to buy directly from Amazon since They never wronged me..Now I'm glad I did..

 

[The Monkey]

I was faced with the choice of buying the HD 650 from J&R or HeadRoom. Headroom couldn't match J&R's price, but made an effort to come closer (especially for me since I would have to pay tax on the J&R purchase). I went with HeadRoom and I'm glad I did (although I wish the 650 was actually in stock). The more online headphone purchases I make, the more I am only comfortable dealing with Head-Fi sponsors.