[tumburu]

   
That's likely a fit or HRTF issue with you in particular...or a faulty unit completely? There are no dips whatsoever that I could detect...as flat as there is to my ears. Please have a look at my profile to see the other headphones in my collection to see where I'm coming from.

 
We had this discussion before. If the pair was somehow defective, how can you explain that both monitors exhibit the same problem at the same frequencies? That's highly improbable and Shotgunshane's (and other people's) observations confirm the same deficiencies in the mid region. Fit issues manifest different and I get a pretty good fit FWIW. Let's not go there again, please. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
We had this discussion before. If the pair was somehow defective, how can you explain that both monitors exhibit the same problem at the same frequencies? That's highly improbable and Shotgunshane's (and other people's) observations confirm the same deficiencies in the mid region. Fit issues manifest different and I get a pretty good fit FWIW. Let's not go there again, please. 

 
But again, can you explain why the majority of folks don't hear that? You might want to look up HRTF too...could be something there too. IMO there is no comparison betwee these and the Roxanne's (which I did like but didn't find them anywhere as transparent). I performed several full frequency sweeps and they were as ruler flat as I heard. 

 

[raypin]

Agreed re seal, sometimes I get it, others not at all

Bass for me is at 2pm, probably a shade high, but wow, great kick at the bottom end, makes the SE846 bass system sound positively bass light...

Further bad news for me is that these outclass the SE846 so badly that it isn't even funny - which means I really cannot see me returning these...

Sometimes ignorance really is bliss (

/

as you see fit)

Mmm......it's hard to be ignorant, when you are a member of headfi.org . Yes, I feel the same: Shure 846 sounds  a lot thinner compared with the Layla. I have both and I use both, depending on my mood. Is the Layla the best there is? Right now, probably but there's always something better out there. The hunt for perfection continues......

 

[Audiowood]

How do u guys run the frequency sweep? I would like to run some of my iem too..

 

[hipnick]

How do u guys run the frequency sweep? I would like to run some of my iem too..

There is one here:
http://onlinetonegenerator.com/frequency-sweep-generator.html

 

[tumburu]

   
But again, can you explain why the majority of folks don't hear that? You might want to look up HRTF too...could be something there too. IMO there is no comparison betwee these and the Roxanne's (which I did like but didn't find them anywhere as transparent). I performed several full frequency sweeps and they were as ruler flat as I heard. 

 
The Roxxanes seem to be pretty colored, then, and that explains the mixed feelings people have regarding them.
 
No idea how HRTF applies to an IEM.
 
I would advice to run the sweeps manually in order to be able to pick what's there. If the sweep is quick enough maybe you can get away with it and think it's ok. My sweeping method is unforgivable, there's no chance that something would escape from the ear. Every register is sweeped many times at the slowest speed possible. For that I run a test oscillator inside a DAW and sweep at will throughout all the regions also manually introducing values from different registers to check the consistency of the response over several octaves (ie: 30, 300, 3000kHz, etc). 
 
Just as an information, the AKG K3003, a 'peaky' IEM (in the treble register), is much closer to a flat response. Besides those two treble peaks at 5 and 8kHz, everything stays in the +/-3dB range. 

 

[shotgunshane]

But again, can you explain why the majority of folks don't hear that? You might want to look up HRTF too...could be something there too. IMO there is no comparison betwee these and the Roxanne's (which I did like but didn't find them anywhere as transparent). I performed several full frequency sweeps and they were as ruler flat as I heard. 

Let me know if you'd like to have your pair measured; I can arrange it. For a myriad of reasons, they won't be ruler flat. Balanced armatures have natural resonance points that can be massaged but not overcome.

Also, Iems must be tuned quite differently since they bypass the entire outer ear. To sound flat to the ear, for example, they must have a 12+ dB boost around 3k, depending on which methodology of compensation a designer might believe gives you perceived flat. There are going to be dip and peaks in a multi-armature; there's just no way around it.

Source is also going to greatly impact multi-armatures as well. Even just a few DB of output impedance is going to skew the produced frequency response. AK daps aren't very good for faithlfullly reproducing the intended frequency response of Layla. At least the AK240 is not. Anything with less than 1 ohm under load is going be measurably better. Too bad AK doesn't supply specs under load.

If it sounds pretty darn flat to you, that's great! I liked it too. But calling it ruler flat is quite a large stretch. Myself, I heard several large peaks in treble and the veiling dip in the midrange. These things should be scrutinized and discussed before people blindly plunk down 2.5k, especially since JHA markets it as a tool for mastering.

 

[hipnick]

Let me know if you'd like to have your pair measured; I can arrange it. For a myriad of reasons, they won't be ruler flat. Balanced armatures have natural resonance points that can be massaged but not overcome.

I would very much like to see measurements for Layla's. I have searched in the internet, couldn't find anything.

 

[shotgunshane]

I would very much like to see measurements for Layla's. I have searched in the internet, couldn't find anything.

To my knowledge no one has published measurements yet. I imagine Tyll will measure it at some point; at least I hope so.

I used to use Rin as source for sending IEMs to but he's disappeared again. CYMBACAVUM has been using Speakerphone but requires international shipping.

 

[Rico613]

How do u guys run the frequency sweep? I would like to run some of my iem too..

To download signal files I use Wavtones.  For sweeps of more than 5 seconds you'll need to buy a license, but it's affordable - $7

 

[tumburu]

  I would very much like to see measurements for Layla's. I have searched in the internet, couldn't find anything.

 
That would end the hype and it should be definitely done.
 
@ Shotgunshane: I would send my own pair to you if you were in Europe.

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
The Roxxanes seem to be pretty colored, then, and that explains the mixed feelings people have regarding them.
 
No idea how HRTF applies to an IEM.
 
I would advice to run the sweeps manually in order to be able to pick what's there. If the sweep is quick enough maybe you can get away with it and think it's ok. My sweeping method is unforgivable, there's no chance that something would escape from the ear. Every register is sweeped many times at the slowest speed possible. For that I run a test oscillator inside a DAW and sweep at will throughout all the regions also manually introducing values from different registers to check the consistency of the response over several octaves (ie: 30, 300, 3000kHz, etc). 
 
Just as an information, the AKG K3003, a 'peaky' IEM (in the treble register), is much closer to a flat response. Besides those two treble peaks at 5 and 8kHz, everything stays in the +/-3dB range. 

 
HRTF still does refer to IEMs as the inner ear can still cause differences (since we're all different). FWIW, I really  didn't like the AK3003...I prefer the Shure SE535s to them by quite a margin and it wasn't just the peaky treble.
 

Let me know if you'd like to have your pair measured; I can arrange it. For a myriad of reasons, they won't be ruler flat. Balanced armatures have natural resonance points that can be massaged but not overcome.

Also, Iems must be tuned quite differently since they bypass the entire outer ear. To sound flat to the ear, for example, they must have a 12+ dB boost around 3k, depending on which methodology of compensation a designer might believe gives you perceived flat. There are going to be dip and peaks in a multi-armature; there's just no way around it.

Source is also going to greatly impact multi-armatures as well. Even just a few DB of output impedance is going to skew the produced frequency response. AK daps aren't very good for faithlfullly reproducing the intended frequency response of Layla. At least the AK240 is not. Anything with less than 1 ohm under load is going be measurably better. Too bad AK doesn't supply specs under load.

If it sounds pretty darn flat to you, that's great! I liked it too. But calling it ruler flat is quite a large stretch. Myself, I heard several large peaks in treble and the veiling dip in the midrange. These things should be scrutinized and discussed before people blindly plunk down 2.5k, especially since JHA markets it as a tool for mastering.

I'd love to see the measurements...but when I've performed frequency sweeps a few different times using both my ears and a SPL meter...no "dips" could be detected. I fould them flatter than the Shure 535s (which are pretty flat), but with more extended treble. 

 

[ironpeg]

I'm using Universal Roxanne. Thinking about upgrading to either CIEM Roxanne or CIEM Layla. Haven't tried Layla yet. I think Roxanne is a little bit too dark for me. Will Layla sound the same as Roxanne?

 

[tumburu]

  I've performed frequency sweeps a few different times using both my ears and a SPL meter...

 
Really curious how you did that.

 

[Jazic]

  Thanks Anak. I still personally prefer the Angie but it's a nice perspective that the Layla still sounds better and more reference to you than other respected top models that also claimed to be natural or accurate. When things get this costly it deserves to be critically evaluated but perspective is a good thing. I find the Layla a tad warm for my taste but it's personal and isn't as warm or laid back as others that get nothing but acclaim. That and the sense of tangibility in FPs is 2nd to none.
 
There will never be a perfect IEM nor something perfect to drive it but a few do some very wonderful things and allow a bit more insight. The idea that at this price, it should be perfect for everybody, all the time is just silly. It should simply be most preferred by decent percentage of consumers that can and care to afford it. 

 
 
Sorry to dig up an older post but I'm reading thru and was wondering if you'd mind clarifying some.
 
Bass, Mids, Treble, Soundstage, etc comparisons between the two maybe?
 
I know it's been said 100 times but I'd like to know your input. If it's been said already then I apologize.