JH Audio JH-3A
Jun 18, 2010 at 7:47 PM Post #616 of 2,681


Quote:
Now my head hurts.
 





Quote:
 
I think my head is hurting, too...



my apologies guys, it really is a strange little world where the analogue meets the digital domain. its good to be reminded of the fact that many of these things we see as glued together by some magical technological force, rely on the same rules as ever, just at a much smaller and faster scale; so as to SEEM seamless
 
Quote:
No Firewire, that drives up the cost and frankly not as ubiquitous as USB.
 
I would definitely like to see 24/96 USB.  Please JHAudio, if you make any late modification, its this one.  You got to have 24/96 USB input which would alleviate the added cost of a USB->SDPIF converter (yet another piece in the chain).

 
yeah well I would love firewire, but thats not going to happen. firewire is a protocol designed from the ground up for streaming digital audio and video, it does not have to share a bus with any other process.
 
it has also already been stated that hirez asynch USB is possible, but that it will drive up the cost by about 250 and cause a couple months delay......., saving?? nope, but more convenient though. 
 
there are now native driverless usb 2 audio codecs available on the mac, how long they take to come to the PC is anyones guess though and until then custom software would need to be written or implemented. I do wonder if being forward thinking, the ipad/iphone v4 is capable of running the usb 2.0 codec
 
you guys are right though; this thread is unhealthy
 

 
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 7:55 PM Post #617 of 2,681
Um, excuse me but this whole site is unhealthy.
blink.gif

 
Jun 18, 2010 at 10:42 PM Post #618 of 2,681
Quote:
 
 
there are now native driverless usb 2 audio codecs available on the mac, how long they take to come to the PC is anyones guess though and until then custom software would need to be written or implemented. I do wonder if being forward thinking, the ipad/iphone v4 is capable of running the usb 2.0 codec.


Every USB DAC that I have encountered - all the big names - are plug and play with Windows. So are they all USB 1.1?
 
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 12:19 AM Post #619 of 2,681
My impression was that it is USB 2.0.
 
I would like to add that my demo with the JH-16's and JH3a turned out to be the best sounding music reproduction that
I have ever heard. Jerry comes from a different planet appropriately named Harveyville and Harveyville has technologies that
he brought from his planet (which is more advanced than ours), and I feel honored that he is willing to share his advanced
technologies with us, without the use of anal probes. I'm sure that the costs to be a member will be astronomical, but worth it. Vonage is offering $14.95/month digital phone service and it only needs one number. The number to Harveyville.
 
I have never heard sound reproduction that even comes close to what he was demo-ing, and being the self acclaimed
audiophile that I convince myself in believing that I am, left me no choice but to cut Brittany a check, and I will wait for what I
think is my listening nirvana that I have been climbing mountain tops to find. You have to listen to it to understand, and I'm sure that my pod is growing in my backyard, waiting to make me a member of Harveyville. It is useless to fight it, and once
you know the secret  password, your relentless search for the best portable audio will come to an end. The problem is, that
half the fun of this hobby is the thrill of the chase, and my friends, the chase is over. Attempts to fight the membership will be
useless. We will just be sheep, being pointed in different directions.
Get into reading, stamp collecting, and birdwatching, but our days of comparative analysis of portable equipment is over. The experience will be satiating, but other than that, blow the dust off of your 2 channel system and start perfecting that. Maybe it's
time to start that work you've been putting off on that '68 Mustang that you have in your garage. Maybe that Milguasss
you've been at Tourneau could be your new passion. 
I hate to say it, but maybe, all that neglecting of your spouse has come to an end. Ease into it slowly, because s/he will wonder
where all of the love they've been missing, is starting to come to fruition.
 
Now that we have the JH-16/JH-3a we can continue with or lives. We have turned a corner in our existence, and our audio
needs have been fulfilled.
 
Thank you, Jerry and Co.  [/end of rant]
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 2:19 AM Post #620 of 2,681
I have been considering pulling the trigger on an ALO iMod for a few months. Does anyone who has one think that this new system would synergize well?  I know it would only be using the line out with lod (non digital) but I would like to be as portable as possible.  I also know that that the AlgoRhythm Solo is coming  in a few months.  Decisions, decisions...
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 2:41 AM Post #622 of 2,681
I dunno about that.  I think many people have been around here long enough to realize that there will always be another headphone/amp/cable/source/power source to rule them all!
 
Until then, rock on JHAudio.  This might actually be the cheapest non-upgradeable packaged combo that I've ever seen that would put someone on top of the head-fi audio madness... a great sign for things to come. hmmm...
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 4:35 AM Post #623 of 2,681


Quote:
Quote:

Every USB DAC that I have encountered - all the big names - are plug and play with Windows. So are they all USB 1.1?
 


that has nothing to do with whether a device is capable of USB 2 audio. usb 2 data and the ability to run high rez USB 2.0 audio codec are entirely unrelated. yes the devices you mention are in general using the plainly named: USB AUDIO CODEC. it is only very recently that windows has had this available, though the native USB 2 class audio has been on mac for some time. until recently any hirez USB system needed its own custom drivers, but now it is being integrated into the OS and no driver is needed. I only hope that the ipad/iphone interface is using this codec instead of the old one, so if applications are released to take advantage of the ability of the chip (capable of hirez and multichannel even) then we could have a super system in the works and the new multichannel DSD input JH3a will be the next best thing. the search is never over, your kidding yourself if you think that will ever happen
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 4:47 AM Post #624 of 2,681
The explanations below may seem too simplified and perhaps elementary to advanced members here, yet I feel they could be of interest to those still wondering what all that JH3A fuss is about, so please bear with me.
 
Qusp, I think your mental constructs related to jitter are valid, yet you perhaps need a little leap of faith to emotionally accept a slightly different reality. When you say "
the ONLY clocking method (not reclocking) able to eliminate jitter in the playback mechanism, is to slave the transport clock to the dac clock, have them be one and the same, but then you also have the issue that the clock used to create the digital data in the ADC is different lol", you are hitting the nail right on the head - I believe that's exactly what's happening inside JH3A, and IMHO it is wonderful. 
 
Only instead of an external transport, the slaved transport is a RAM buffer (or several logical buffers) that the DSP operates upon. In order to filter/split signal in the frequency domain, the filter/splitter has to have memory for signal samples. Details of algorithms vary, yet fundamentally in order to figure out the component frequencies of a signal (or even the frequency of a single pure sine wave), it has to be observed over time.
 
In case of old school passive filters, the capacitors and/or inductive coils in combination with resistors play the role of that memory. Such filter is not perfect though, as it doesn't remember the whole signal over a period long enough to perfectly recognize its shape but rather stores the signal's averaged secondary characteristics. The more memory elements (capacitors and coils) are added, the more precise the filtering/splitting becomes. Unfortunately, adding more elements also results in the degradation of signal, both in terms of amplitude and phase, as well as makes the filter/splitters heavier and more expensive.
 
Filtering/splitting/adjusting in digital domain opens up entirely new opportunities, as the number of memory elements can be measured in hundreds and thousands instead of single digits. With a RAM buffer of sufficient width and depth and quick enough processor, the signal can be split onto numerous frequency ranges with great precision, selectively attenuated, phase shifted, and then brought back to the amplitude domain - again with great precision - so that when the sound waves emitted by several transducers arrive to a listener's ear drum, their superposition results in the patterns of air pressure very close to the ones generated by live music experience.
 
Several transducers are needed because we usually want each one work in a "smooth" area of its frequency response curve, far enough away from its natural mechanical resonance frequency, where it could produce wild uncontrollable spikes, yet also far enough away from its "running out of steam" too low or too high frequency. This principle is not universal - some transducers, especially those used in subwoofers and cheap boom-boxes, work very close to their resonance so that their efficiency can be higher.
 
Somewhat unfortunately for humans, a typical mechanical transducer can usually cover about one third of the useful frequency range (expressed logarithmically), so we need to use three or four of them. One would be just enough for birds, who can only hear up to 4KHz, and we'd have hard time keeping up with the dolphins, who as I recall can hear sounds up to 200KHz.
 
One transducer in a typical dynamic full-size headphone, which seemingly disproves what I just said, is a curious case. First of all, it does in fact combine several transducers in one as its flexible membrane participates in several modes of motion - slow whole surface back and force motion for low frequencies and quick waves running from the center across the membrane for high frequencies. Secondly, the resulting frequency response curve is far from ideal - even the best full-size headphones may have several peaks and valleys of up to 9 db across the useful spectrum and also typically introduce significant phase incoherencies, while a four-way professional monitor can be flat at +- 1.5 db from 16 Hz to 32KHz with near-zero phase incoherencies on its focal axis.   
 
What JH is doing is applying proven design principles, heretofore only fully developed for high-end professional monitors and super-expensive exotic loudspeakers (== professional monitors wrapped in nice veneer), to relatively "affordable" headphones. An additional advantage is that the headphones in question are individually fitted in-ears, which provides well-controlled geometry and excellent transduction efficiency. In case of professional monitors, no matter how good they are, one needs to have his or her head in their focal point to fully enjoy the experience.
 
The members who listened to the JH16/JH3A combo describe an experience similar to the one I typically have while being in a focal point of my system, which comprises mostly of professional monitors driven by a digital processor . A practical joke I like to play on people who visit our home for the first time is asking a person to sit on the focal seat and then turn on something like Kitaro's Sacred Journey of Ku-Kai in its whole 5.1-channels SACD glory. After five or so seconds, the person's eyes invariably widen and jaw drops - the "teleportation" effect is that strong :)
 
I have to say though that certain CDs and even some SACDs are becoming painful to listen to with such a good system. Not only rampant dynamic range compression and frequency atrocities, but localization errors are becoming glaringly obvious (one of my "favorites" is a track made in Russia where lead vocalist appears to be situated straight behind a gitarist and the vocalist's head appears to be bigger than the whole gitarist's body - makes for a very weird impression, or maybe it was an underpaid mixing engineer joke :).
 
The difference between 16/44 and 24/96 becomes clear as night and day with such an accurate system. That's the reason I'm voting so hard to bring a reliable easy to use on the go 24/96 interface to the JH3A. Believe me, you'll develop cravings for wide-high-bit-rate recordings. Better have a system that can easily satisfy them for years to come!
 
There is a synergy similar to the one existing between Blu-ray disk and full HD TV - one needs the other to fully realize its potential. In JH16/JH3A combo, you'll have an analog of the full HD TV. Just like watching old DVDs became a bit less exiting after introduction of Blu-ray, listening to 16/44 on a system with such high audio resolution will become a bit less exiting as well.
 
I hope this long treatise will be helpful to some of you. I only try to return a favor, as I'm learning so much from this forum. Have a nice day!
 
EDITED for typos and emphasis.
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 5:00 AM Post #625 of 2,681
still jitter...
 
sounds like mainly intrinsic jitter which given sufficiently good technology may well be meaningless to audio, but any process that buffers the audio and processes it adds jitter of its own. when someone says a process eliminates jitter I get suspicious it simply isnt possible. even the slaved process (which your example is not and is not related to) has its own intrinsic jitter, even if it is able to get rid of all of the jitter from before that point.
 
and when I mentioned the clocks being one in the same, that was intended to cover the example where they are just linked processes in the same core
 
even the process that is sufficiently advanced so as to be indistinguishable from magic has its own jitter lol.
 
but no more jitterology talk of it from me, its not going to go anywhere and if levels are low enough to be invisible, who really cares.
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 9:01 AM Post #627 of 2,681


Quote:
My impression was that it is USB 2.0.
 
I would like to add that my demo with the JH-16's and JH3a turned out to be the best sounding music reproduction that
I have ever heard. Jerry comes from a different planet appropriately named Harveyville and Harveyville has technologies that
he brought from his planet (which is more advanced than ours), and I feel honored that he is willing to share his advanced
technologies with us, without the use of anal probes. I'm sure that the costs to be a member will be astronomical, but worth it. Vonage is offering $14.95/month digital phone service and it only needs one number. The number to Harveyville.
 
I have never heard sound reproduction that even comes close to what he was demo-ing, and being the self acclaimed
audiophile that I convince myself in believing that I am, left me no choice but to cut Brittany a check, and I will wait for what I
think is my listening nirvana that I have been climbing mountain tops to find. You have to listen to it to understand, and I'm sure that my pod is growing in my backyard, waiting to make me a member of Harveyville. It is useless to fight it, and once
you know the secret  password, your relentless search for the best portable audio will come to an end. The problem is, that
half the fun of this hobby is the thrill of the chase, and my friends, the chase is over. Attempts to fight the membership will be
useless. We will just be sheep, being pointed in different directions.
Get into reading, stamp collecting, and birdwatching, but our days of comparative analysis of portable equipment is over. The experience will be satiating, but other than that, blow the dust off of your 2 channel system and start perfecting that. Maybe it's
time to start that work you've been putting off on that '68 Mustang that you have in your garage. Maybe that Milguasss
you've been at Tourneau could be your new passion. 
I hate to say it, but maybe, all that neglecting of your spouse has come to an end. Ease into it slowly, because s/he will wonder
where all of the love they've been missing, is starting to come to fruition.
 
Now that we have the JH-16/JH-3a we can continue with or lives. We have turned a corner in our existence, and our audio
needs have been fulfilled.
 
Thank you, Jerry and Co.  [/end of rant]


 
There you have it!  Without even owning it, Aaron has proclaimed first: musical angels DO exist and they live in Harveyville.  
atsmile.gif

 
Btw, I met Jerry twice (once at the first Canjam and the other time I cant remember).  He is a great guy and loves to talk to customers when he has time.  I am pre-ordering mine on Monday after I get impressions.  Then I wait and see till September if the angels you speak of will play for me.
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM Post #628 of 2,681
Bold statement: Makes all other headphones and amps obsolete and irrelevant. At the pace Jerry is going with custom IEM's, it just maybe so. And I don't know if dynamic or electrostatic headphones can or will catch up.  
 
Quote:
My impression was that it is USB 2.0.
 
I would like to add that my demo with the JH-16's and JH3a turned out to be the best sounding music reproduction that
I have ever heard. Jerry comes from a different planet appropriately named Harveyville and Harveyville has technologies that
he brought from his planet (which is more advanced than ours), and I feel honored that he is willing to share his advanced
technologies with us, without the use of anal probes. I'm sure that the costs to be a member will be astronomical, but worth it. Vonage is offering $14.95/month digital phone service and it only needs one number. The number to Harveyville.
 
I have never heard sound reproduction that even comes close to what he was demo-ing, and being the self acclaimed
audiophile that I convince myself in believing that I am, left me no choice but to cut Brittany a check, and I will wait for what I
think is my listening nirvana that I have been climbing mountain tops to find. You have to listen to it to understand, and I'm sure that my pod is growing in my backyard, waiting to make me a member of Harveyville. It is useless to fight it, and once
you know the secret  password, your relentless search for the best portable audio will come to an end. The problem is, that
half the fun of this hobby is the thrill of the chase, and my friends, the chase is over. Attempts to fight the membership will be
useless. We will just be sheep, being pointed in different directions.
Get into reading, stamp collecting, and birdwatching, but our days of comparative analysis of portable equipment is over. The experience will be satiating, but other than that, blow the dust off of your 2 channel system and start perfecting that. Maybe it's
time to start that work you've been putting off on that '68 Mustang that you have in your garage. Maybe that Milguasss
you've been at Tourneau could be your new passion. 
I hate to say it, but maybe, all that neglecting of your spouse has come to an end. Ease into it slowly, because s/he will wonder
where all of the love they've been missing, is starting to come to fruition.
 
Now that we have the JH-16/JH-3a we can continue with or lives. We have turned a corner in our existence, and our audio
needs have been fulfilled.
 
Thank you, Jerry and Co.  [/end of rant]



 
Jun 19, 2010 at 10:33 AM Post #629 of 2,681
Thanks to all for an awesome discussion, and tons of great info!
 
Please forgive the totally noob question in regards to the JH-16/JH-3a, but it shouldn't take much of your time to answer, and I'll go back to silently lurking, and absorbing your awesome knowledge :)
 
Would the digital inputs on the JH-3a work properly with the digital out on a Wadia 170iTransport, and would this be a good digital source?
 
Thanks in advance for your answers-
 
Dave
 
Jun 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM Post #630 of 2,681


Quote:
 Maybe that Milguasss you've been at Tourneau could be your new passion. 


Well, immtbiker I guess for me the next logical step is the JH-3A/JH16 as I already have the watch (An amazing, wonderful, simple elegant watch by the way that is the most accurate mechanical watch I have ever owned!)

 

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