[Chodi]

Quote:

 
Just saying - Foobar's SQ sucks, man... You should get something better like Jriver or ulilith, both supporting VST plugins. And get a better equalizer (if you use TB Isone for that alone) as well...

If you are using KS output with Foobar it bypasses the Windows audio mixer and outputs the digital stream untouched. Foobar has no sound of it's own. I have seen these comments before and it simply is not true. Foobar imparts no change whatsoever to the digital stream by itself unless you select plugins that alter the sound. This story about JRiver or others being sonically better is just fiction.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

If you are using KS output with Foobar it bypasses the Windows audio mixer and outputs the digital stream untouched. Foobar has no sound of it's own. I have seen these comments before and it simply is not true. Foobar imparts no change whatsoever to the digital stream by itself unless you select plugins that alter the sound. This story about JRiver or others being sonically better is just fiction.

 
You wish... Enjoy your Foobar then

 

[Chodi]

Quote:

 
You wish... Enjoy your Foobar then

From your comment I can only assume that you believe Foobar is changing those 1's and 0's in some way? I would be interested to see how that might happen without adding some DSP? The choice of player is no more than a matter of operational convenience if you are using it in KS mode. That my friend is a fact.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

From your comment I can only assume that you believe Foobar is changing those 1's and 0's in some way? I would be interested to see how that might happen without adding some DSP? The choice of player is no more than a matter of operational convenience if you are using it in KS mode. That my friend is a fact.

 
Try xxhighend or jplay in hibernate mode and tell me then... Or you can try jplay mounted in Jriver. Or try Jriver alone - better sound, better audiophile options, better versatily for specific needs, better look. And you can try Fidelizer as well, even with your Foobar
 
But I would say this is a wrong discussion... Just stay happy with Foobar and I'll stay happy with Jriver. ,-)

 

[kalston]

JRiver may sound better (in theory!) than foobar when you use DSPs because of the 64bit FP precision (vs 32b FP in foobar) but other than that JRiver with ASIO/KS/WASAPI sounds absolutely the same as foobar (or any other player configured in the same way). If it doesn't there's something wrong somewhere in your setup. 
 
Foobar is a very clean and reliable player (and so is JRiver MC). 

 

[Chodi]

It seems this thread got hijacked and it deserves to get back on topic. My experience with Isone has made my listening through headphones a more enjoyable experience. I don't use it all the time, but on classical music particularly it enhances the experience. Once it is properly set up and used prudently, the results with classical music can be remarkable. I find the key is to use the room settings to bring about the most subtle change and add a "natural" feeling to the music. Going too far with the settings can really destroy the sound. Frankly, on classical music I could never go back to listening without Isone. I have a new Stax system which really brings out the detail and Isone Pro shines with the Stax equipment.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

 
Who said we all want "you-say-natural lossy speakers sound"? I want "to-my-ears-pseudonaturally-sounding hyperdetailed experience" with my headphones and that's perfectly what TB Isone offers when using my crossfeed settings (together with Eq neutralisation created for my headphones). ,-)
 
I've compared almost any crossfeed plugin and none of them can beat TB Isone's versatily and pure stereo sound quality which is very significant with particular songs (or particular sequences of particular songs) that require "a special care" to not hurt my ears very much...
 
Maybe when gaming or watching movies, TB Isone can do a great job when using all its features... But for music, pure and versatile crossfeed is what I want in order to keep the required level of detail and still perceive it naturally without any unwanted artifacts.
 
I have been tweaking with both Isone Pro and TB Isone for months and all I can say is that I didn't spend a huge load of money on Denon AH-D7000, Objective2 with ODAC and other things related to software side of the thing to ***** up all the effort by coloring and degrading the sound using TB Isone in an inappropriate way IMHO. I want to hear the music, not the plugin. The official manual is helpful to achieve something that can sound balanced, a bit spatial, pushed and straighten in front of me... But there ALWAYS are artifacts, unwanted deformation of the source (e.g. emphasised recording and mastering defects ...), coloring and dramatic loss of detail if you use HRTF together with EAR SIZE (HEAD SIZE is as well that case)!
 
Just saying - Foobar's SQ sucks, man... You should get something better like Jriver or ulilith, both supporting VST plugins. And get a better equalizer (if you use TB Isone for that alone) as well...

 
Isone Pro doesn't screw up imaging at all:
 
Here's a fully binaural song (and a damn good one)
 

 
Turning it on and off results in no loss of imaging with my settings for my head. The only difference is soundstage width but that's fine as you do realise, that most music is mixed with nearfield speakers at 30 degrees right? Also Isone Pro gives you good instructions on how to configure the HRTF settings correctly. You did read the instruction manual right?
 
Hearing the music correctly for most recordings, recorded the way the sound engineers hear it. Nearfield speakers angled at over 30 degrees affects the sound naturally in the treble.
Isone Pro was designed for use in the recording industry. Think about that for a second. Not to mention Jeroen was part of the team that designed the mp4 container standard, so I think he know a little bit more about psychoacoustics and it's application than the average person.
 
You must configure the HRTF settings. Also headphones, due to driver size, do not shift as much air as speakers thus bass impact is affected and thus you must compensate for that.
Most headphone audiophiles impression of 'neutral' is actually bass light (particularly sub bass) tbh. My room settings are in a super ideal (see unrealistic but it's the ideal) room tbh. No early reflections (and thus no need for dampening via diffusion).

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

If you are using KS output with Foobar it bypasses the Windows audio mixer and outputs the digital stream untouched. Foobar has no sound of it's own. I have seen these comments before and it simply is not true. Foobar imparts no change whatsoever to the digital stream by itself unless you select plugins that alter the sound. This story about JRiver or others being sonically better is just fiction.

 
not to mention WASAPI is better than KS. You really shouldn't be using XP these days. the sound kernel in Windows was revamped for the better with Server 2008 / Vista and up.

 

[Chodi]

Quote:

 
not to mention WASAPI is better than KS. You really shouldn't be using XP these days. the sound kernel in Windows was revamped for the better with Server 2008 / Vista and up.

I haven't seen any information that suggests WASAPI exclusive is better than kernel streaming? Could you advise where you got that idea from? As far as I know they are both bit perfect. I am not saying you are wrong I just haven't heard this story before. Perhaps you could expand on this idea?

 

[chinesekiwi]

^
 
All are the same really, but as stated in the Hydrogenaudio wiki
 
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components_0.9/WASAPI_output_support_(foo_out_wasapi)
 
 

1. Requires Windows Vista or Windows 7 - not available on Windows XP or older.
2. Works with more soundcards - contrary to e.g. ASIO, it doesn't require any special support from soundcard's manufacturer, other than providing a Windows Vista compatible driver.
3. Guarantees muting of any other sounds played through the soundcard - with ASIO and KS, muting occurred with some soundcards but not with all of them; it was a side effect rather than a feature.

 

All do the same job really. Best practice is to use what is native to Windows to avoid any potential crap / broken driver problems / OS conflicts as manufacturers often released crap ASIO drivers for example.

 

[Chodi]

Quote:

 
All do the same job really. Best practice is to use what is native to Windows to avoid any potential crap / broken driver problems / OS conflicts as manufacturers often released crap ASIO drivers for example.

Thanks for the information. I thought they were the same for anyone using Windows 7. I guess I misunderstood you I thought you were implying that one sounded better than the other? Technically, they should sound identical if you are using an output device that supports both. WASAPI will probably use a little more cpu resource but the difference is negligible on a modern system.

 

[Henery]

I have enjoyed using this plug-in in Wavelab and have tried to get it working with Foobar,but with no luck.My problem is that i can´t find the VST bridge in the DSP Manager window or any other VST plug-ins.The VST 2.4 adapter is in the Installed Components window.Don´t know how to fix this problem.

 

[Chodi]

Quote:

I have enjoyed using this plug-in in Wavelab and have tried to get it working with Foobar,but with no luck.My problem is that i can´t find the VST bridge in the DSP Manager window or any other VST plug-ins.The VST 2.4 adapter is in the Installed Components window.Don´t know how to fix this problem.

Just use George Yohng's VST wrapper. Install it and it will appear in your task bar (bottom of your screen). You install it inside Foobar components and operate it from your task bar. It is very simple and works as it should. Only thing is you can only use one VST plugin at a time with this wrapper.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Just use George Yohng's VST wrapper. Install it and it will appear in your task bar (bottom of your screen). You install it inside Foobar components and operate it from your task bar. It is very simple and works as it should. Only thing is you can only use one VST plugin at a time with this wrapper.

 
Actually, foo_vst and foo_dsp_vstwrap each have VSTs that are problematic, but switching between VST bridges is recommended indeed. Also, chainers can be used to add multiple VSTs in a single instance.

 

[MHOE]

If someone is interested, I can share my settings to give a clue what you can get with TB Isone (using HEADPHONES!):
 
1) Pure and very natural-sounding crosfeed:
 
 

 
 
2) Crossfeed + a bit of spatial effect without effecting the source quality too much:
 
 

 
 
3) More-or-less-natural "FULL-TBisone" mode:
 
 

 
 - 100 % HRTF is a need to let all Isone's features sound right (hugely tested)
 - 83.5 % Ear size seems to work for me the best as well as for chinesekiwi , don't know if it says something but I figured out the value before seeing him posting it here (months ago)
 - Head size HAS TO BE ADJUSTED to work for you! I would suggest to use an angle ruler to accurately estimate the 30° degrees angle to the right and to the left.
 - Loudspeaker's frequency response to FLAT
 - Room preset: SMALL STUDIO or MIDFIELD (your preference) with adjusted SpkLev to the "default value" (see above)
 - CSC on, definitely
 
Hope it helps someone. I have been testing TB Isone for months with different genres so it should give at least a clue to achieve good results