[Whazzzup]

ill say, sure

 

[buke9]

I'm not saying it isn't true, but, the Problem starts with the AD Conversion.
At some point the signal was analog (nowadays potentially only in the studio just at the microphone). After that it's digital up until we play it. Recorded into the PC, mixed, mastered on the PC, and published on CD, all digitally. The Digital Data describes the Analog Waveform. Any DAC's Job is to produce the Waveform that's described by the Digital Data. How this is done is pretty irrelevant really. Either you produce the desired output or you don't. There might be differences, but i doubt they are massive,
Differences can come from any Amplification done by the "DAC". But that's not the DAC part, that's the Amp part. Even if it's in the same housing and is only called a DAC.

I don't doubt that DAC's measure differently. I don't doubt that there are differences between DAC's (as in units, not Chips). I only doubt I could here them, or that they are big enough for me to care.

Then you just need to stop . You said you probably won't hear any difference then why go on?

 

[cossix]

In a perfect world, people wouldn't keep spending money on upgrades when they can't hear the difference. I can pretty consistently pick out lossless vs most decent quality mp3 in a blind AB, but I have friends who can't tell the difference between my HD598 and LCD2. Its all about where your personal line in the sand is, in terms of your hearing. Just because one person can't tell a Modi 2 from a Yggy doesn't mean others can't. Of course some people let themselves become fooled by placebo effect (for lack of better terminology) because they WANT to hear a difference, therefore they DO hear a difference

 

[buke9]

So your saying most people can't tell the difference from a Modi 2 and a Yggdrasil?

 

[Currawong]

In a perfect world, people wouldn't keep spending money on upgrades when they can't hear the difference. I can pretty consistently pick out lossless vs most decent quality mp3 in a blind AB, but I have friends who can't tell the difference between my HD598 and LCD2. Its all about where your personal line in the sand is, in terms of your hearing. Just because one person can't tell a Modi 2 from a Yggy doesn't mean others can't. Of course some people let themselves become fooled by placebo effect (for lack of better terminology) because they WANT to hear a difference, therefore they DO hear a difference

And also some people are so fixated on what they believe to be true that they wont acknowledge the validity of any possibility outside of that, to the point they degenerate into personal attacks against people. It makes these kinds of discussions difficult.

Some people wouldn't want to read, given this discussion, how I've been testing different versions of firmware of a DAC, and how they affect the sound.

My response to this kind of question, which is as useless as the "[Some or other martial art] doesn't work in a fight" kind of discussions that have been going on online for almost a couple of decades now, is: Under what circumstances? It's going to very much depend on the person, the gear, the music, and the expectations.

 

[buke9]

And also some people are so fixated on what they believe to be true that they wont acknowledge the validity of any possibility outside of that, to the point they degenerate into personal attacks against people. It makes these kinds of discussions difficult.

Some people wouldn't want to read, given this discussion, how I've been testing different versions of firmware of a DAC, and how they affect the sound.

My response to this kind of question, which is as useless as the "[Some or other martial art] doesn't work in a fight" kind of discussions that have been going on online for almost a couple of decades now, is: Under what circumstances? It's going to very much depend on the person, the gear, the music, and the expectations.

Could not agree more.

 

[tomb]

ill say, sure

^ this ... short, to the point, and totally true.

 

[Danielbea122]

"if you can hear a difference then your expensive dac is fkn crap up" - Zeos

 

[Music Alchemist]

"if you can hear a difference then your expensive dac is fkn crap up" - Zeos

Except the expensive DACs (the better ones, at least) measure many times better. Also, most serious audiophiles I know don't take Zeos seriously.

 

[Danielbea122]

Except the expensive DACs (the better ones, at least) measure many times better. Also, most serious audiophiles I know don't take Zeos seriously.

You need to meet new serious audiophiles lol

 

[Music Alchemist]

You need to meet new serious audiophiles lol

You need to reconsider your definition of what a serious audiophile is. I'm referring to those who own systems in the four to six figure range, most with high-end DACs as well. I don't know a single high-end DAC owner who is a DAC skeptic. It's only the inexperienced who are making these claims about DACs sounding the same.

 

[Danielbea122]

You need to reconsider your definition of what a serious audiophile is. I'm referring to those who own systems in the four to six figure range, most with high-end DACs as well. I don't know a single high-end DAC owner who is a DAC skeptic. It's only the inexperienced who are making these claims about DACs sounding the same.

Of course the 4 figure range is going to have a better sound but between $100 to $500 its snake oil

 

[Music Alchemist]

Of course the 4 figure range is going to have a better sound but between $100 to $500 its snake oil

Why do you believe that?

I've owned around a dozen DACs, ranging from cheap to four figures. Most of them sounded quite different. (Though obviously far more subtle than transducers.)

 

[Danielbea122]

Why do you believe that?

I've owned around a dozen DACs, ranging from cheap to four figures. Most of them sounded quite different. (Though obviously far more subtle than transducers.)

I bought a bifrost a modi a odac and a smsl sd793 they all sound the same to *my* ears. Returned them all except for the smsl.

Amps sound different to me for sure but not dacs

 

[Music Alchemist]

I bought a bifrost a modi a odac and a smsl sd793 they all sound the same to *my* ears. Returned them all except for the smsl.

Amps sound different to me for sure but not dacs

Well, if you didn't hear a difference between four DACs on one system, I don't think anyone is going to call you a liar. But that doesn't warrant such blanket statements as saying everything from $100 to $500 is snake oil.

In my experience, the Modi 2, JDS Labs OL DAC, iFi micro iDSD, JKenny Ciúnas DAC, Modi Multibit, Chord Mojo, Chord 2Qute, etc. all sounded different. And you can find countless impressions all over the Internet from those who perceived significant differences between DACs.

That being said, DACs aren't a big deal unless you're using a pretty high-end system. I'm using a $30 DAC with $750 speakers at the moment and they sound great.