Is there *really* an audible difference between different DACs?
Aug 18, 2017 at 1:45 AM Post #61 of 171

domsch1988

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Then you just need to stop . You said you probably won't hear any difference then why go on?
Because it's a forum. It's used to state opinions and discuss them. Why should i stop? It's rather interesting for me to have a discussion with someone who hears a difference and get into the technicalities of it. It's how i expand my knowledge. I talk to people with different opinions. No need to stop that...
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 6:34 AM Post #62 of 171

cossix

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Except the expensive DACs (the better ones, at least) measure many times better. Also, most serious audiophiles I know don't take Zeos seriously.
Measuring better and sounding different are two different things
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 6:51 AM Post #63 of 171

Whazzzup

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Yes difference is the key verb here, not better. They may or may not be the same thing. I noticed differences in this order as far as potential utilities of various components. Hp aside
1) source includes, bit rate fr, bit perfect, external server, processing quietness.
2) dac
3) cables
4) amp, in that the best get out of the way.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 1:18 PM Post #64 of 171

Music Alchemist

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Measuring better and sounding different are two different things

And what makes you think they don't sound different? You've made tons of posts recommending DACs you've heard about that people say sound better. Perhaps you've changed your mind? Well, at any rate, I've owned them. And they do sound better. Countless other audiophiles can attest to that.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 1:23 PM Post #65 of 171

cossix

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And what makes you think they don't sound different? You've made tons of posts recommending DACs you've heard about that people say sound better. Perhaps you've changed your mind? Well, at any rate, I've owned them. And they do sound better. Countless other audiophiles can attest to that.
I'm not saying expensive dac's don't sound better, I'm sure they're amazing. What I'm saying is that better measurements don't always translate into better/different sound. I failed to specify that I was talking about the fact that some people don't have the ability to hear the difference between some desktop dac's. Hell, my girlfriend can't tell her Beats apart from my LCD2 xD
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 1:33 PM Post #66 of 171

Music Alchemist

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I'm not saying expensive dac's don't sound better, I'm sure they're amazing. What I'm saying is that better measurements don't always translate into better/different sound. I failed to specify that I was talking about the fact that some people don't have the ability to hear the difference between some desktop dac's. Hell, my girlfriend can't tell her Beats apart from my LCD2 xD

Alrighty. It's true that better measurements aren't always audible, but the context here is top-of-the-line (or at least fairly expensive) DACs.

I want to emphasize again that DAC upgrades are not necessary at all. I know I extol the virtues of DACs, but I won't deny that the transducer accounts for most of the sound.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 1:35 PM Post #67 of 171

SilverEars

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What people repeatedly mention is the ears being trained. I first though of it as workout or something, but what I think people really mean is audio experiences in using various setups. As you use various gears, etc.., you build a better relative idea of possibilities.

For example, look at Joker's iem thread. After experiencing so many different signature type/styles, you become more grounded to realize particular personal taste, and also the possibilities out there in terms of performance. Like anything experience really does matter. That is really the truth of it.

As an example(not really highly analogous, but proves a point), let's consider medical practitioners over the years. Their practice require empirical evidence, but also there are also grounded in science, but this "science" could be something of tradition that was wrong over many years. Science is sometimes not science. Theories are abstraction of reality, and models don't always fit all circumstances. There are unknowns, and I think people with intelligence acknowledge the unknowns more than think something is a sure thing without much investigations.

Sometimes we run into conflicts, what somebody tells us has scientific grounding, but doesn't coincide with our empiricle experience. We should ask questions, and should not close off possibilities(as long as it's fairly reasonable).
 
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Aug 18, 2017 at 1:53 PM Post #68 of 171

cossix

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What people repeatedly mention is the ears being trained. I first though of it as workout or something, but what I think people really mean is audio experiences in using various setups. As you use various gears, etc.., you build a better relative idea of possibilities.

For example, look at Joker's iem thread. After experiencing so many different signature type/styles, you become more grounded to realize particular personal taste, and also the possibilities out there in terms of performance. Like anything experience really does matter. That is really the truth of it.

As an example(not really highly analogous, but proves a point), let's consider medical practitioners over the years. Their practice require empirical evidence, but also there are also grounded in science, but this "science" could be something of tradition that was wrong over many years. Science is sometimes not science. Theories are abstraction of reality, and models don't always fit all circumstances. There are unknowns, and I think people with intelligence acknowledge the unknowns more than think something is a sure thing without much investigations.

Sometimes we run into conflicts, what somebody tells us has scientific grounding, but doesn't coincide with our empiricle experience. We should ask questions, and should not close off possibilities(as long as it's fairly reasonable).
I agree that the idea of "training your ears" isn't training at all; it's more so a matter of experiencing many different setups and components so you build a knowledge base in your mind of how things compare with each other. If a deaf man was cured and listened to a pair of $5 earbuds, he would most likely say they sounded amazing because it's all he has heard (literally). It's all about being able to compare gear to what you've heard before.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 5:44 PM Post #69 of 171

Chris J

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After over 6,000 posts (not that 6,000 posts makes me qualified! :). I have gotten to the point where the main thing is: I have some great sounding gear, it certainy isn't mega buck stuff, and I certainly think it sounds great, but for me, ultimately, it has become all about the music.
Do I enjoy my music with my gear? Fer sure, absolutely.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 8:26 PM Post #70 of 171

redkingjoe

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Yes difference is the key verb here, not better. They may or may not be the same thing. I noticed differences in this order as far as potential utilities of various components. Hp aside
1) source includes, bit rate fr, bit perfect, external server, processing quietness.
2) dac
3) cables
4) amp, in that the best get out of the way.

A kind reminder: Don't forget to try a few outstanding audiophile fuses!

Although a fuse is only a few cm and we are using a lot within a system, changing just one single fuse to an audiophile fuse will change all the sound we can here.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 8:33 PM Post #71 of 171

redkingjoe

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After over 6,000 posts (not that 6,000 posts makes me qualified! :). I have gotten to the point where the main thing is: I have some great sounding gear, it certainy isn't mega buck stuff, and I certainly think it sounds great, but for me, ultimately, it has become all about the music.
Do I enjoy my music with my gear? Fer sure, absolutely.

Yeh.

And than when you insert a high quality power cord into the little dot transport, you find that the music is even more enjoyable.

You don't need to to think that it sounds better. You can feel it better. You can hear the difference. When you switch back to the stock cable, you might not like the sound anymore.
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 9:39 PM Post #72 of 171

cossix

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Yeh.

And than when you insert a high quality power cord into the little dot transport, you find that the music is even more enjoyable.

You don't need to to think that it sounds better. You can feel it better. You can hear the difference. When you switch back to the stock cable, you might not like the sound anymore.
Don't forget to re-wire your entire house to ensure best sound quality. The copper 12-2 wire found in all homes doesn't supply "clean power" and must be switched out with pure silver. You should only need about 1,500 feet to fix the issue
 
Aug 18, 2017 at 10:23 PM Post #73 of 171

redkingjoe

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Don't forget to re-wire your entire house to ensure best sound quality. The copper 12-2 wire found in all homes doesn't supply "clean power" and must be switched out with pure silver. You should only need about 1,500 feet to fix the issue

Re-wiring...Yeh...you named it, I have got it.

For hifi, I have my apartment re-wired with Cardas Functionally Perfect pure copper Teflon power-cord 10 years ago.

It costed me...I just don't want to remember...but the sound is so amazing after those cable were completely burn-in.
 
Aug 19, 2017 at 7:45 AM Post #74 of 171

Whazzzup

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Regenerator my good friends, regenerators, transformers, conditioners and isolator. That's the future...get off the grid
 

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