[wind016]

You shouldn't need to like the sound of the player. It should just be flat and extended. If you want a "tube" sound or whatever colored sound, there are plenty of headphones that are colored in ways you may like.
 
Quote:

It comes down to whether you like the sound of the 601. If you do, its limitations can be over-come, if not they provide a good reason to view the device even more unfavourably.

 

[gameboy115]

Believe it or not, I don't even think there is any portable player in market having completely flat frequency response.
 
Leander, you  are better off considering what sound signature you are looking for and what you concerns most. As far as I know, 601 is pretty vocal,oriented with mellow and lack back presentation. The bottom line, you want a bright sound signature, that is not your cup of tea.
 
After that, take a look of your inventory,  601 is good at dealing with IEM/headphone with natural or little brighter sound, so it don't go too dark which is not sound majority would hope for.
 
Lastly, there is nothing wrong with non flat response frequency, as a matter of fact, most causal listener would appreciate it as much as something with emphasis of certain frequency. I don't even I remember I have even heard flat frequency response from any my previous DAP, including Sony X1060, M10, Cowon D2, Clip, Zune. SFLO2 is close call though

 

[wind016]

Honestly, I say be cautious. Why spend so much money on a source component that has more rolled off FR than most of the other MP3 players? It's not even a tube amp where you can roll tubes. If you want to roll off treble, you can find any good MP3 with an equalizer.

 

[EddieE]

[size=x-small]People keep talking about whether or not you like the sound of the hifiman - but this is not an equally priced equally functioned equally sized player to others.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]The hifiman is less functional, less battery life, and much clunkier and much, much, much more expensive than standard commercial players.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]What if someone does like their treble slightly attenuated? [/size]
 
[size=x-small]Is it responsible advice to tell them to spend hundred of extra pounds on a player they can barely fit in their pocket, has a poor battery life and none of the functionality of modern players, or even gapless playback? Is it not a lot more practical advice for someone who has already mentioned they are on a low budget to get a player with good EQ, or one you can port RockBox to and just attenuate the treble yourself for free?[/size]
 
[size=x-small]I've never made any comments about the hifiman players here before because it is people's own business what they spend their money on. If they have bucket loads of cash why not indulge their want to be a special audiophile with a special audiophile's player and believe their own hype? None of my business.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]But if someone who has already ordered a good amp and is on a low budget comes asking advice on whether this player is worth his money I'm absolutely going to give it straight.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]It is not worth it. Not on a low budget and [/size][size=x-small]unless you have a certain personality type that gets a lot out of owning a player like this, not at all.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]The Arrow amp you have ordered will bypass the hifiman amp circuit anyway and the NOS DAC's "special audiophile" sound is just rolled off treble anyway.[/size]

 

[ProjectDenz]

What can I say? People who have never heard the HM-601 are knocking it and saying that it sounds like 'this' and 'that' and is 'rolled off'. Why am I not surprised?

Oh yea and rockbox isn't exactly that good either, no amount of tweaking on the clip could make my se530 sound acceptable to me in the treble department.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Regardless of how it sounds, since I haven't heard one....it doesn't do gapless and the battery life is less than that of my rockboxed Clip+. And 2GB of internal storage, IIRC.....fail.

 
And the rockbox can make my PX100's sound like my SR60i's....so maybe you didn't spend enough time learning to use the EQ.

(no offense intended)

 

[ClieOS]

HifiMan has its shortcomings, not doubt about that. iPod too has its own shortcoming, and I don't think people can denied that as well. This applies to any and all players. The thing about shortcoming is, it is only a true shortcoming for the user if the user find it to be one. For example, I don't use gapless nor mind listen to gap, as my attention is on what between the gap, not the gap itself, so gapless support really doesn't do me any benefit. Hence even when I have RockBox installed on my Fuze and has several album that are recorded for gapless playback, I still dual boot back to the original firmware most of the time. In my own experience, RB is not an improvement for me since I really doesn't use any of its function. Mean while the original Fuze firmware has a longer battery life, that's a benefit I can use.
 
The point is, as a buyer you need to look into what is important to you as a DAP. You are only spending your money wisely when you get a player with the features you want, not tons of features you don't need. I have the HM602 and HM801 with me and find their sound to be great. Yes, they are plenty of shortcoming but it never stop me from enjoying their sound. All I ask for is a good sounding DAP and that is what I find them to be. Obviously it doesn't mean all others will like them as I do, but I don't see the point of needing to justify my enjoyment to others. I am sure my Fuze measured very flat and it does have plenty of features, especially since it has been RockBoxed - with the exception that those are not the features I need nor making it sounds as good as a HifiMan to my ears. Again, you should pick a DAP fits your need - it could be a flat FR curve, touch screen, gaming, extra battery life or simply just the sound. It is not about right or wrong, but whether you will enjoy your choice or not.

 

[Leander7777]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their honest opinions.

I think I'll pass on the hifiman for now. The nice bundle was and is my main temptation. I honestly don't think my iPhone sounds bad and from what I undestood, the hifiman isn't necessarily superior sound quality-wise. It just has a more flamboyant and likeable sonic signature. To be honest, I'm just looking for refined sound, not stylized sound. If the arrow will clean and refine my iphone's sound, I'll be content. But foremost, I want my iPhone/arrow combo to do my ultrasone 900s and my triplefis justice, if it does, then that's all I really crave for with a tight budget.

Am I correct to conclude, based on the arguement, that the hifiman and iPhone have different sonic signatures, but neither one is necessarily sonically superior (quality-wise).

 

[EddieE]

[size=x-small]Project Denz,[/size]
 
[size=x-small]I have seen a frequency response chart that shows it has rolled off treble, and all the comments about its sound (i.e. that it is "warm, lush, relaxing, forgiving of poor recordings") are completely in keeping with what happens when you EQ down the higher frequencies so I imagine would be the same sound if they were unitentionally rolled off as the hifimans old DAC chip does.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]The decision over whether certain frequencies should be boosted or attenuated let alone sharply rolled off, should be made in the headphone store or with an equaliser. In no sensible world do you get pay a premium of five times the amount of a Clip+ of the same storage to get rolled off treble just because you think it sounds nice.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]Well in no sensible world do I recommend that to someone who has said they are on a budget and has already bought an amp, you are free to do what you want.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]It's hardly the only problem with the player. Here are some (tongue in cheek edited) comments from the 601reveiw currently front paged:[/size]
 
[size=x-small]The HiFiMan HM-601 is about the same height as an iPod but is about twice as thick.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]It’s not an accurate player and doesn’t come close at providing a neutral signal free from coloration. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]I KNOW it’s not an accurate player. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]It only has 2GB onboard flash. That means you can fit only 2 hi-rez albums on there if you are lucky. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]Every single high resolution file I played on the HM-601 sounded significantly worse than on any other player. There was distortion present on low gain, on high gain and on the line-out. The problem was present on any file with a resolution higher than 16/44.1![/size]
 
[size=x-small]Apparently the EQ was causing the music to distort, even though the EQ was set to 0 on all the bands. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]After turning off the EQ 24/96 still produced some audible hiss and distortion.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]Those who do use CUE sheets…you’re in for a disappointment. The player always cues up the first track perfectly fine but every track after the first one is off! It will cue it up either a few seconds before the track starts or a few seconds after it starts.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]I know it’s not the cue sheets because they work fine on my laptop, my mastering rig, with EAC, with Foobar, with my iPod, with my Fuze and with my Clip+. I am sure this must be a firmware issue but it is a real annoying issue if you only use files with cue sheets.[/size]
 
[size=x-small]The main question you have to ask yourselves is whether you want a neutral/natural sounding player like the Clip+ or a colored musical player like the HM-601. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]Granted, every one of those massive red warning light was disguised by some platitudes about it's warm sound (rolled off treble), its musical sound (rolled off treble), it's life-like sound (rolled off treble), it's lush sound (rolled off treble) or as he also puts it at the end of the review - "the highs have a very pleasing roll-off" - but between the lines it is anything but a glowing review… and he didn't even mention the lack of gapless and the poor battery life.[/size]

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their honest opinions.

I think I'll pass on the hifiman for now. The nice bundle was and is my main temptation. I honestly don't think my iPhone sounds bad and from what I undestood, the hifiman isn't necessarily superior sound quality-wise. It just has a more flamboyant and likeable sonic signature. To be honest, I'm just looking for refined sound, not stylized sound. If the arrow will clean and refine my iphone's sound, I'll be content. But foremost, I want my iPhone/arrow combo to do my ultrasone 900s and my triplefis justice, if it does, then that's all I really crave for with a tight budget.

Am I correct to conclude, based on the arguement, that the hifiman and iPhone have different sonic signatures, but neither one is necessarily sonically superior (quality-wise).

If you have the chance, do go to a local meet. Trying out real gears in life is always more accurate in a personal level then relies on hearsay.
 
@EddieE, Just a suggestion, but do try looking into what is called a 'Butterworth filter' and what it does with DAC.

 

[LevA]

Quote:

I actually didn't say a flat frequency response is the best sound. I think a pair of headphones with a flat frequency response would sound awful.
 
 

i'll bite..
why not?? according to your logic wouldn't the best headphones then be those with flat frequency response, and give better control to user by adjusting the sound through EQ? 
so all headphones that don't have flat frequency response are defects?

 

[EddieE]

What I like about headphones is that they all have different characters. Teams of sound engineers work on a way of presenting sound and we decide which ones we like and which ones we don't and build a collection that offers us variety and different flavours.
 
EQ is good if a headphone is almost, just almost what you were looking for and you can tweak it to perfection. It's also very useful if you are on a very tight budget and you can buy a set of phones that respond well to equalisation and make all those different flavours yourself as EQ presets (Phonak PFE112 are great fro this). 
 
But I'm a consumer, I don't want to have to do all the work myself if I can afford otherwise, and I also think a team of sound engineers with an R&D budget and nothing else to focus on can do a better job than I can too.

 

[wind016]

Should we pay CD price for 128 kbps MP3s if we like the sound of the MP3s? I say no.
 
 
Quote:

i'll bite..
why not?? according to your logic wouldn't the best headphones then be those with flat frequency response, and give better control to user by adjusting the sound through EQ? 
so all headphones that don't have flat frequency response are defects?

 

[ClieOS]

Didn't we do just that for quite a few years with iTune and help Apple turn into the biggest music downloading service ever? People paid for iTune because they want something that work seamlessly with iPod without RIAA and FBI knocking out the door. I bet people really love that part of the deal since I am quite sure anyone can get loseless without paying a cent except for internet fee and electrical bill. This goes back to my last point - as a buyer you need to look into what is important to you as a DAP... and paying CD price for 128 kbps MP3 doesn't equal to liking the sound of MP3, nor getting a HifiMan because you love the shortcomings.
Quote:

Should we pay CD price for 128 kbps MP3s if we like the sound of the MP3s? I say no.
 

 

[Trysaeder]

1. Find dap that fits your lifestyle.
2. Find dap that fits your price range.
3. Find dap that fits your required features.
 
If all three don't matter, then go for the 'audiophile' players.