Is the HD800 overpriced?
Jul 13, 2013 at 10:33 PM Post #661 of 685
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That's assuming you can even tell what its really supposed to sound like, the only person who'd know that would be producer who arranged those synthesized  samples on the gear that he uses to play them back. With acoustic music, you have a real-life reference to the instruments and performers.

 
 
Well some "synthesized" music should sound  exciting or entertaining. I realized that I have less trouble to eq an headphone to my taste,  by listening to different music, than listening to pink noise just like a popular tutorial at head-fi  explain it (I won't bother to refind it). So yeah, I have a rough idea of what music should sound, even if it's not inspired  from "natural" sounds. And I  didn't used the word "crap", nor  implied that it sounds  like "crap" on the hd800.

Try something from Infected Mushroom, or for a darker side, Skinny Puppy. Both excellent examples of natural sounding electronica. Natural synthwork is extremely difficult, few can do it well. And yeah Igorrr has a heavily compressed dynamic range, but that's mostly the genre.
 
Vicious Delicious (Infected Mushroom):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GctS3a5WIXM
 
Assimilate (Skinny Puppy):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtnTjvvT_ig
 
And with that, I'm done with this thread as well. That degenerated quite quickly.
 
Jul 13, 2013 at 10:39 PM Post #662 of 685
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When you get into niche markets... stuff just starts to seem overpriced.
I own a Cintiq 24HD Graphics Tablet Monitor. I payed $2400 for it USED.
As far as tech goes in the thing.. it's completely made out of mostly plastic. Has an LCD Panel, that's equivalent to a 400 dollar monitor Pro-art from ASUS NEW.
And the same Digitizer technology found in a Samsung Galaxy Note or Microsoft Surface Pro Tablet.

If you <REALLY> think the Cintiq has technology even close to as poor as the Note and Surface Pro, we have a problem. The Cintiq 24HD is <very> overpriced, but it is the best tablet in the world at the moment by a VERY wide margin. If I remember correctly it has an S-IPS LCD panel (perfect color accuracy), which is why you wouldn't think it was very good compared to the insanely hyped up contrast we're used to in most panels nowadays. The 24HD is for serious artists and people who work in professional photography. Like you said about the HD800, its for a specific purpose.
 
Don't get me wrong though, that thing is inexcusably overpriced.
 
NOW I'm done.
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 3:34 AM Post #664 of 685
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High Fidelity is characterized by minimal distortion in sound reproduction, the big reason why the HD800 sounds as clean and resolving as it does, if your electronic music sounds crap on them then its because it is crap to begin with. That's assuming you can even tell what its really supposed to sound like, the only person who'd know that would be producer who arranged those synthesized  samples on the gear that he uses to play them back. With acoustic music, you have a real-life reference to the instruments and performers.

 
It's obvious from this post that you've probably never heard electronica and definitely don't know enough about it to be able to criticize it, because not all electronica necessarily consists of synthesized sound. And "synthesized" and "samples" can't be used together either, as a lot of electronica is a combo of synthesized sound and samples. In the production of electronica, "samples" usually refer to digital captures of an analog element - i.e., a vocal sample, an acoustic sample, etc, or even a snippet from some other source entirely. This process is usually called sampling. There are also sub-genres of electronica that use vocals as well, like ambient, trip-hop, techno, et al. There are also artists who combine acoustic instruments with synthesizers. So basically your argument is ignorant.
 
Plus, the argument against electronica that no one but the producer knows what it sounds like comes from complete ignorance of how electronica is produced. 303 and 909 analog synth sounds, for example, are extremely common throughout electronica and have a distinct sound that's impossible to mistake. A set of good headphones will let you hear that distinct sound.
 
The argument that acoustic music has a real-life reference is also completely moot for those who don't listen to live music. Because not everyone who listens to music on headphones necessarily goes to concerts as well, or knows a musician, or even is a musician. In order to have the real-life reference you have to know how the instrument sounds. And how do most people know the sound of a live instrument? Mostly through either inference (for exotic instruments, or ones that aren't very common) or via concerts, which are either of the amplified or non-amplified variety. In either of those cases, the audience barely gets a glimpse of the true sound of an instrument. At an amplified concert, some of the instruments are intentionally distorted, others not. Either way, the sound waves of the instruments and vocals are propagated by megawatt speakers. Speakers that color the sound. And at non-amplified concerts, the sound waves lose intensity the more distance they propagate. Anyone who thinks they're truly hearing the instruments from even the first row is kidding themselves. A piano, for example, has an incredible range of musical dynamics. A lot of that can't be heard unless you're the one playing it or are standing really close to it.
 
I have a better real-life reference to classical-music instruments than most people, as I'm a violinist and have played in orchestras before. So I've heard all the sections from the point of view of being in the orchestra - the celli, violas, violins, brass, woodwinds, & percussion. I've heard huge drums being impacted nearly directly behind me, and cymbals so close that I thought I'd get hearing loss. I'd say that the musicians in the orchestra have a great real-life reference. The people in the audience aren't hearing half of it!
 
What I'm getting at is that few people truly know how acoustic instruments sound either, except for those who play an instrument, or have heard one really up-close.
 
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Well I mentioned Infected Mushroom earlier in this thread. They used the HD800's as their second reference source for mastering their last two (or maybe just the last) albums. There's a picture somewhere.

It's the most well recorded Electronic music artist that I know of... Granted that's really not my genre and don't listen to it much.

 
I keep seeing people say that Infected Mushroom is recorded well, but has anyone ever bothered to go past the check of how it sounds and actually looked at the waveform data of a track? I recently bought a copy of their CD Vicious Delicious and suspected it wasn't recorded that well. It sounded a bit compressed and definitely limited too. So I ripped track 3 and here's the visual proof that shows the compression and clipping. Conclusion: if Vicious Delicious is indicative of Infected Mushroom's recording quality, then it's not all that great.
 

(click for larger version)
 
I have other electronica CDs that are recorded way better than Vicious Delicious, like those produced by Orbital for example. Massive Attack's albums are recorded better too.
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 3:53 AM Post #665 of 685
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Originally Posted by my.self /img/forum/go_quote.gif
arent all headphones overpriced in a way? i mean does it REALLY cost $1400 to make one pair of hd800? the prices are prolly a lot higher than what its worth because ppl will most likely still buy them. but thats just what i think and i could possibly be wrong.


Wow, you do know that companies need to make a profit too right?

 
A better question would be, how much does it cost to produce and how much are they marking up the price? Sennheiser says the HD 800 is handmade, so just the cost of labor is probably really high.
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 4:41 AM Post #667 of 685
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Not to mention, anything made in Europe especially countries such as Germany and Italy have high labour costs.


I honestly wouldnt care about that.
 
I somewhat regret buying the akg k550 only because they are made in china. I despise the fact that my music listening pleasure might very possibly be a bi - product of a man's tiny income (or suffering).
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 4:48 AM Post #669 of 685
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I honestly wouldnt care about that.
 
I somewhat regret buying the akg k550 only because they are made in china. 

Wow some great logic here. 
 
The fact that it's made in China (aside from fakes) mean's the average Joe is able to afford it on average pay rates. Not everyone here have loads of money or is a CEO or some big conglomerate company. 
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Jul 17, 2013 at 5:01 AM Post #670 of 685
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Wow some great logic here. 
 
The fact that it's made in China (aside from fakes) mean's the average Joe is able to afford it on average pay rates. Not everyone here have loads of money or is a CEO or some big conglomerate company. 
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Exported jobs are actually a burden for our economy, or any economy currently suffering in the world. They reduce consumer participation here by keeping wages away, wages that could have gone directly back into our economy.
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 5:08 AM Post #671 of 685
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Exported jobs are actually a burden for our economy, or any economy currently suffering in the world. They reduce consumer participation here by keeping wages away, wages that could have gone directly back into our economy.

Then everyone would be paying a premium for that product. If QC is held strictly and to the same degree in another manufacturing plant in another country not in it's own country, why pay more for the same thing? Oh wait, unless you like keeping that heritage of Made in X country is better factor. If exported jobs are becoming a burden for the economy and reduces consumer participation then the competition levels should be increased higher. If one country can do it (in this case China) then so can other companies in other countries. Unless you want everybody outside of that country suffering highly inflated prices. It's all about Porters Five Forces model.
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 5:12 AM Post #672 of 685
From what I've read, eventually it will no longer be that great of an advantage to export jobs to China as the middle class grows. I agree with most of what you said, but the bottom line is it takes so long for economies to adjust and right now the world is still in a struggle.
 
I'm not sure where this conversation is going so we can stop now unless you want to say anything else XD. I think I'm just really tired right now and can't flesh out what I think I want to say very well.
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 5:24 AM Post #673 of 685
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Originally Posted by my.self /img/forum/go_quote.gif
arent all headphones overpriced in a way? i mean does it REALLY cost $1400 to make one pair of hd800? the prices are prolly a lot higher than what its worth because ppl will most likely still buy them. but thats just what i think and i could possibly be wrong.


Wow, you do know that companies need to make a profit too right?

 
A better question would be, how much does it cost to produce and how much are they marking up the price? Sennheiser says the HD 800 is handmade, so just the cost of labor is probably really high.

 
 
The vast majority of higher end headphones' production is heavily machined. Basically the only thing that is done by 'hand' is putting the headphone together. It  takes a few minutes per headphone, and they aren't using 'skilled artisans' for the process. 
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 5:25 AM Post #674 of 685
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From what I've read, eventually it will no longer be that great of an advantage to export jobs to China as the middle class grows. I agree with most of what you said, but the bottom line is it takes so long for economies to adjust and right now the world is still in a struggle.
 

 
I don't think you'd find too many economists who would agree with this. 
 
Jul 17, 2013 at 5:33 AM Post #675 of 685
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 If one country can do it (in this case China) then so can other companies in other countries. 

Are you saying you want the rest of the world (namely US, Canada, Europe and Japan) to have the same lack of worker and environmental protection?
 
As for this topic, I can get the HD800 for 850€ in Europe, excluding taxes. I don't think it's overpriced at all. It's more expensive in the US, and by that you can say it's overpriced, but that's to be expected. Shure stuff is also more expensive over here :wink:
Also, Sennheiser seems to be forcing retailers to stick to the MSRP (?).
 
In a product like this the production cost is not a big factor, it's the research and development costs that need to be recouped, hence the high price.
 

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